Opinions please (1 Viewer)

[dgreen1069]

I am in the process of finishing my basement and am adding a home theater. My room is about 16 feet wide by 22 feet deep and the back 75" is stepped up for stadium style seating.

I have purchased a Panasonic AX100U projector from Costco and I am planning on going with a Carada 118" Criterion Brilliant White screen. I'm a little lost as far as what exactly I want for my audio equipment. It is a bit more difficult to decide how much money needs to be spent on audio.....it appears the amount could be endless.

I'm leaning towards a Pioneer Elite VSX-84 receiver and Polk RM speakers. I am thinking about RM50's for the front side, a RM302 center, and RM30 surrounds. Is this overkill or am I better off with the larger speakers? What sub do you guys recommend for around $500-600? Is there another speaker that is heads and shoulders above Polk in the same price range? Would RM20's or RM10's be more than enough for surround speakers? I want good quality sound, but I don't want to have to sell my first born child to get it.

Thanks again....I'm new to the forum so, "Hello everyone"

Dave

 

[Jean D]

Welcome David.

Im not familiar with those speakers so I wont say anything about them, however as far as a sub goes. most people on this forum would recommend either an SVS or HSU sub, obviously, there are other makes and models that people prefer too, but its price point vs. performance that will basically guide you to the brands. there are tons of threads you can search for similar recommendations for those subs. definitely check out the SVS and HSU web pages for model #'s you want to compare. If you decide not to get a huge sub and save some of that money, I would suggest a possible transducer in your risers (a bass shaker)

 

[Bob McElfresh]

Hi David. Welcome to HTF!

I'm going to move your post to the speakers fourm as it might be a bit advanced for the Basics area and we try to not get into make/model recomendations.

I'm also a little torn on the larger/smaller speaker issue for your room.

Usually for a living room/den system, small speakers with a good subwoofer give a great HT experience. (It's one of the reasons some $500 Home Theaters in a Box sound so good. And we often recommend these.)

But a dedicated Theater room ... the acoustics are usually better. Speakers with more/larger mid-range drivers and larger cabinents do sound better even with movie soundtracks.

The other problem is the sub. You really want a good sub for movies to give people the impact. Two brands have reputations for great sound and good prices:

SVS - www.svssound.com
HSU - www.hsuresearch.com

Tom & Ron (of SVS) started out helping people build their own subs and eventually started their own sub company. They are members here and have lots of happy customers (including myself).

HSU is also a sub-company that started with internet-only sales. Tom & Ron have praised the HSU subs in the past, and if you search you can find endless debaits about which sub/company is better. The truth is - they are both great.

Also, dont forget to check out our "HT Interiors" fourm for posts by others who have built dedicated Theater rooms. Everything from popcorn-machines to acoustic treatments have come up and it makes for interesting reading.

Good luck and enjoy your stay!

 

[JohnRice]

David, I looked at the speakers you are thinking of and I would recommend leaning more toward something like the RTi10/12, CSi5 and FXi3/5. One of the big reasons is I think you will get more performance for your money, though at the cost of less "cool" looking speakers. Plus, the FXi surrounds are switchable bi/di-pole, which is a very handy feature. It allows you more versatile surround placement. I find di-pole to the sides of the listening area is preferable, but it isn't always possible. So sometimes you have to go with bi-pole at the rear of the room.

I would maybe divert a bit of budget away from the speakers to the sub. If you up that to more the 1K area, you will not regret it. If you have the space for it, the SVS PB-12 Plus or PB-12 Plus/2 will be great. If that is too large, give the SB-12 Plus a try. Put it in the front near a corner and enjoy.

Also, with the price of that receiver, I would also look into a Denon. I believe the 480x (forget the current model) is in the same price and probably a better quality choice.

I just thought I'd add, I'm not going to recommend different speakers. That is a whole can of worms, and plenty of others will come in and encourage you to buy what they own. People are so insistent on everyone else owning the same stuff they do. I was just looking at the Polk line and recommending something that might give more value. Of course, I haven't listened to them.

 

[dgreen1069]

I have to be honest, I have never heard of SVS or HSU speakers. I am completely open to good suggestions. I am a little apprehensive about buying speakers I've never heard, but it looks like both SVS and HSU have great reviews.

I'm thinking now I was planning on spending too much on speakers with the Polks I was looking at. I reallllllly like the idea of buying a complete 7.1 system that is reasonably priced. (I'm already running out of money on my basement project). I don't mind spending a couple of thousand dollars on speakers, but I want the best bang for the buck.

Let's here your recommendations on the best theater speaker systems in the $2,000 and under price range. The SVS system seems to have great reviews on the internet. What about a Paradigm system?

 

[JohnRice]

Trust me David, there are dozens, if not hundreds of speaker brands you have never heard of. That's not a shot, it's just true, since there are so many speaker brands.

My final comment is that asking for "best theater speaker systems in the $2,000 and under price range" will start a cascade of people simply listing what they own. I know Polk has some in that range, but I still would use an SVS or Hsu sub. What tends to happen is people ask others for too much feedback but don't do enough listening themselves. Even if you end up ordering an SVS system, for example, you will benefit from having listened to as many other choices as possible. No amount of advice will replace you actually having listened to stuff yourself. Speaker choice is almost entirely a matter of personal preference.

 

[dgreen1069]

That is a very fair response.....let me change my question then. My main goal is to have high quality sound for 80% movie watching and 20% or less music listening. Without getting into specific brands, would you all recommend bookshelf speakers (like the size used in the SVS package) for the 7.0 speakers or should I get larger front speakers and a larger center speaker. I am getting the feeling that a good sub is more important than anything else for home theater audio systems. If this is true, I will adjust my sights accordingly.

I'm looking for experience....hindsight if you will. I have a good friend that spent around $3000 on Paradigm speakers for his theater.....he recommended I find a good box system and go that route. In his experience, he went over the top and it was not necessary. The speakers I was looking at for the fronts were Polk RM50's. There are on sale at Tweeter for $759 a pair. I was going to put together my own system, but I don't want to mix match things (that won't sound as good as a factory built system).

 

[Jean D]

I am working to get the SVS SBS-01 set for my bedroom. I, like you, have read great reviews on them. But personally I have still yet to hear them, but judging by what Ive read and the fact that I own an SVS sub (of which I LOVE) and their customer service is amazing. I am going to take that leap. It will suit my needs and will probably be better than my HT setup in my livingroom. That being said, you can always demo speakers. SVS will ship you the set, and if your not happy with them, I believe you just have to ship them back accordingly. all you pay is shipping I believe as long as no damage was done. Again, SVS's customer serivce is amazing, and a quick email will give you all the answers your looking for in that direction. Sometimes you can find people in your area that are willing to demo their setup for you also.

Correct me if Im wrong here guys, but a good subwoofer would be able to handle a larger mid-low end frequency range and take the strain off of the other speakers (which mean you can go smaller, and pay less) This is why economically most forum members on here have strong opinions about their subwoofer.

 

[gene c]

For movies, the general consensus is the sub and center are most important. For music the sub and fronts. You can mix and match as long as you stay within the same family of speakers, like all Polk M's or Infinity Primus etc. Towers can be very expensive compared to their bookshelf counterparts. You can often get a much better speaker for the same price by going with bookshelves. Having said that, some feel the perceived "impact" you get with towers is worth the extra cost. I agree with what John said about speaker opinions. People will naturally recommend what they bought for themselves. But still, you have to start somewhere. I recently up-graded from an all Polk RTi setup (a fine speaker but was looking for something that better fit my tastes and room acoustics). I narrowed it down to three based on members opinions in the many speaker threads I've read over the years, perceived build quality, cost-including shipping, etc. and yes, even appearance. I then ordered 6" bookshelves from those three, listened/evaluated for 2-3 weeks and made my choice. Sent the other two back and ordered the matching center and fronts (towers ) and I use the bookshelves as surrounds although they would have been perfectly fine as fronts too. I bought the towers because they had the same driver setup as the center. And I didn't have a set budget so I was O.K. with the extra cost.

 

[JohnRice]

David, a good subwoofer will permit you to go smaller on the mains with fewer disadvantages, since it takes up more of where is lacking in the smaler mains. Still, I find a lot of HTFers take this principle too far. I have very large, full range mains supplied by plenty of power, which not only produce better sound overall, but also allow me to set the sub crossover lower than smaller ones would allow. So, maybe you set your crossover with bookshelfs to 120Hz instead of the 80Hz I use. Just don't push their extension to the limit. One purpose of a sub is to allow you to not stress the mains as much as you would otherwise.

In the end, I guess my main point is, better speakers, especially in the front and even with a great sub, will always be an improvement. Just don't sacrifice the sub in order to improve the front channels. Start off with a good sub, and in the future if you decide to move up on the front channels, you can. It's not absolutely impreative all the speakers be perfectly matched. The front three are the most important, so long as the surrounds are at least a good match.

So, with what you are looking at for budget right now, bookshelfs all the way around is probably the way to go, with a good sub (definitely doesn't need to be the same brand as the others) and you can certainly scale back what you plan to spend on the receiver as well.

Regarding the comment that sub and center are most important for movies, sorry but absolutely not. I have never seen this "consensus" in my life. The sub and all three fronts are really the important.

 

[gene c]

The "consensus" just comes from reading various threads over time. It seems to me that most info (dialog) in movies comes from the center channel so I feel it's a little more important. In music, it seems to be spread out more to the front three.

 

[Jean D]

I would agree that the center is more important than the FL/FR channels (for movies) due to its importance w/ dialog, but at the same time, should be matched w/ the Front L/R's. I've read time and time again that as far as upgrading components go, the center is usually the first thing you would upgrade, due to its importance. then either the sub or the fronts. and eventually the satellites.

 

[predgw]

I will throw a curve ball in and tell you to at least look into Definitive technology speakers which have built in powered subs. I have 4 towers, one center and a powered rear and I love them. No messing around with sub placement with these babies. The big thing about speakers though is... what sounds good to YOU. Kinda like shallow Hal. Good luck.

 

[JohnRice]

David, I'll just explain more completely what I have observed through a couple decades of experimenting with surround sound. There is little argument that the majority of sound in movies comes from the front three channels. The center is quite important, as it not only carries a great deal of the sound, but also most if not all of the dialog. The L/R carries most of the sounds that create the environment of the movie, though little dialog. These three channels probably acocunt for 90% of the sound you hear. It is also important they be well voice matched, so sounds move smoothly across the front stage and is seamlessly blended.

What
isn't well understood is that the L/R also forms the basis of the surround channels. Those 2 rear channels are actually not completely discreet, like the front 3. Depending on the encoding, they are frequency limited and/or actually mono at the most important higher frequencies. So, they actually aren't capable of reproducing localized sounds. Much of the distinct, localized surround sounds are an illusion which begins with the L/R and is merely emphasized and enhanced by the surrounds.


I learned this quite accidentally because my emphasis has always been on the best 2 channel reproduction. So, I have L/R speakers with exceptionally good imaging. They are capable of placing distinct sounds, when produced properly, anywhere in the room all on their own. Add to that the fact that the surround channels on DD and DTS are not actually full range, discreet channels, but always have some combining or frequency limiting to save bandwidth and it just reinforces the fact that a great deal of the surround "illusion" starts with the front channels, which are full range and totally discreet.

So, that is why I find all three front channels are extremely important, and had always gotten the impression that was the general belief. The truth is, have found that the L/R are actually most important in creating that foundation of the best surround illusion. Of course, the center still is extremely important for reproducing dialog and the bit of environmental sound it gets.

No doubt, a lot of people will disagree. I wish a movie sound engineer were on the forum to discuss this. It is just something I quite accidentally stumbled on to from my excessive concernn with the best possible 2 channel reproduction.

 

[Luis Gabriel Gerena]

Let me put one more on the table for you to research:
http://www.av123.com/products_produc...s&product=12.1
Enjoy!

 

[MaxL]

i think these posts are on the right track. as for the speaker size i think music listening habits should be the determining factor. the question is whether you will listen to music in 2 channel stereo or some 5/7 channel surround mode. if it's pure 2 channel, go for the floorstanders, you'll appreciate the size and range. if you'll go 2.1, a larger bookshelf should be fine but make sure you don't get a one note boom box of a sub. if it's surround for music don't waste the money on floorstanders. all of that said, i agree that larger fronts/center are a good idea. that doesn't mean the surrounds should be cheap and tiny, get something that matches, ideally the same size or di/bipole surrounds.

as for the sub you'll hear loads of recommendations for svs/hsu here. i don't doubt their quality or bang for the buck, but haven't heard either. there are a few ways to go for the sub depending on what's most important to you. to make some broad generalizations, all other things being equal, you will get more volume/ higher spl's out of a ported sub and more detail/ accuracy out of a sealed sub. i know svs does a small sealed sub now. martin logan does great sealed subs starting at $600. it might just make it in a room your size unless you want the earthshaking exerience, in which case you need bigger or ported. there's also the monitor audio asw 100 on sale right now for $300 you could double these up if you like. they are ported but reasonably musical. for that matter the whole monitor audio bronze series of speakers (2sizes of bookshelves, rear surrounds, center and floorstanders are on sale) @ saturday audio exchange. no i don't work for them, yes i am a very satified customer of theirs. it's worth looking at and listening if you can.

good luck

 

[frogpond]

Admitetly I skimmed through the posts so I apologize in advance for repeats. As another poster said there are many, many brands out there. The best thing to do is narrow your brand list and if there are brands you would like to try but are not in stores then there are many people here that may own the brand willing to let you take a listen.

 

[Mike Shellito]

One other note: if monetary restraint is an issue, you can always get a 5.1 system now and spend the extra money not spent on the extra 2 speakers on a good sub. As noted, a good sub is key if your looking at 80% movies. Then get the last 2 speakers next year when you get your tax refund to round out the 7.1. I may be mistaken, but most movies are only encoded with 5.1 right now anyhow, and true 7.1 is not available on a lot of movies. (Again, I'm not sure on this.)

Mike

 

[frogpond]

Mike you are correct. There are NO movies encoded for 7.1 and only about 2-3% are encoded for 6.1. The two extra channels are phantom and created by your receiver. Some enthusiests and reviewers say 7.1 is overkill and too noisy and you should stick with the 5 or 6.1 set up. Something to keep in mind and you save money and/or spend it on a good sub as Mike suggests.

 

[Greg Gable]

A 5.1 system is all you really need in a room your size so save some money. Spend about 2-2.5 times more money on your front 2 speakers than you do on your receiver, get the center channel that matches your mains, buy the biggest, baddest sub you are comfortable with and dont spend much money on your surrounds...easy...huh...