Opinions on SVS/Rocket Setup

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Jeff B., Dec 1, 2003.

  1. Jeff B.

    Jeff B. Stunt Coordinator

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    First off, this is my first post on htf but I have been a long time reader, and would like to say I think this is a great environment for people new to ht to come and learn. I have a number of questions/concerns that I hope you guys can help me out on.

    My parents recently bought a new home, and are moving in early this next June of 04. My father decided he wanted to put in a ht in the great room of the house, its 25x25 with vaulted ceilings – its about 7600 cubic feet. I have decided to finally post because my dad doesn’t really know much more than the basics of ht, and I don’t pretend to know much more than him (I have a experience in car audio, but little in the home environment), though I realize after reading through this site and others how complicated home theater can be.

    My dad is not an extravagant guy, and ultimately this is all his decision, but I am going to try my best to steer him in the right direction. Since this is going to be home for my parents for a long time, my dad wants to do this right, but he is not really sure where to start. My fear is that I will recommend certain equipment to him that won’t work out for the best. This setup is going to be used mostly for movie watching, but it will also be used for music about 20% of the time.

    I’ve put together a list of equipment I hope will be great, and I would like your opinions on this setup. For speakers and surrounds, I thought about rocket because of the great reviews I’ve read, and they aren’t extremely expensive. I saw a package on av123.com -- the Rocket Loudspeaker ht package #4. For mains its the RS 550 towers, center is RSC 200, and surrounds are RS 150 bookshelfs. For a sub, I chose the SVS 25-31PCi. Receiver would be an Onkyo TXSR501.

    My main question is would this setup be capable of filling such a large room with sound? The Onkyo receiver puts out 65 watts a channel, which I think should be plenty. Will this sub work out ok, regarding the tuning, and the 325w amp? There is only one opening to the room, a hallway about two normal door widths. My dad does not like to be blasted out of his seat with bass, so that’s why I chose the smaller svs sub. I know its impossible to guess how a theoretical setup is going to sound, and the best thing to do is go and audition lots of speakers at shops, and in the room, but I know that’s not going to happen with my dad. Since you guys have much more experience than I maybe some of you will have an idea of what will result in a setup like this in such a large room. Or maybe this is overkill and much less is needed? I just have very little experience in this stuff so any opinions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am by no means set on any of this equipment, I just put it together because it all seemed like quality stuff popular with many people on this board.

    Thanks for reading if you’ve made it this far...I know its a long post. Again, I’m open to all suggestions or advice, just as long as the total price doesn’t exceed much more than $2500, and the lower the better. [​IMG]

    Jeff
     
  2. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Welcome aboard, Jeff.

    FYI, when you have questions requesting a specific model recommendation for a speaker system or subwoofer, please post in the Speakers/Subwoofers area. The Basics area is for those who need to know what a subwoofer is in the first place. You know, basics. Thanks!
     
  3. Nhan_H

    Nhan_H Second Unit

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    Wow. That's quite a large room. I've heard the Rockets at the Dallas show in a room bigger than that (about twice the size). The Rockets did quite well in a room that size. However, they were driven by a Sunfire GT III or something like that. You might want to post your question in the AV123 forum to get more feedback.

    The Onkyo you listed looks to be quite underpowered, especially for the power-hungry Rockets. Also, the SVS sub will do well for a room that size. Also, the RSC200 center is a huge beast. Make sure you have enough room and support to hold that baby [​IMG]

    Other suggestions for receiver/sub would be a Denon 2803 or 3803 and the Rocket UFW-10 sub, which is a killer sub for the price. It won't go quite as low as the SVS, but is very tight and accurate. There is a review comparing the 2 subs on AVS Forums.

    See if you can get package #4 with the Denon Receiver and a UFW-10 sub for another package price from the AV123 guys. I'm sure they'll be very accomodating.

    $2500, is that for the speakers alone, or will that include the receiver and sub combo, as well. Not sure what the shipping costs would be for the speakers, sub, and receiver.
     
  4. WayneO

    WayneO Supporting Actor

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    In a room that size, a PCi is going to have difficulties at louder levels, which may not be your parents listening habits, but of course I don't know. I'd get a PC+ at minimum just for the room size alone. If your parents would really enjoy deep bass, a PB2+ would probably be the ticket. I've bottomed my old PC+ in a 3000^3ft room, albeit at some loud levels, but you've got more than double the space to fill. The Rockits are a good bet as well, but I'd look at 100WPC minimum to power them decently, but more would of course be better.
     
  5. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

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    Jeff B, First of all welcome to the forum! [​IMG]

    I think you are on the right track by wanting to do things "right" the first time. What I would say is that once you have figured out the budget that you have to spend you spend 65%-75% of your budget on your speakers. Unlike electronics, speakers DON'T become outdated. If a speaker sounds good today (baring abuse) it will sound just as good in 5 years. Electronics are constantly changing with digital amps coming out, new surround formats, etc.

    As far as the Rockets go I have had a package 0 Rockets for about a year and this is the first time that I haven't looked to upgrade or change. IMO if you like the "Rocket" sound you won't find a speaker that has nicer cabinets, better components, or better customer support than the Rockets offer.

    The 550's are a tremendous speaker that really excels in a number of areas. The Vifa XT-25 tweeter that is used in the Rockets has been found in speakers upwards of 10K. This tweeter throws an incredibly large soundstage and if implemented correctly can be one of the most detailed tweeters on the market. The dual 6.5 inch woofers all but assure nice tight bass with very good extension down to the mid to upper 30's in room. The 550's have a little more treble energy than the Rocket 750's and some people love this while others prefer the additional padding that the 750's have. This is going to come down to personal preference here.

    The RSC 200 aka "Bigfoot" is the "gem" of the Rocket lineup IMO. I have put the "Bigfoot" up against some really tough competition and I preferred the 200 everytime. It has a distinct ability to disappear into the front soundstage and it invites you into the movie instead of just watching! The 200 is a three way design using the same dual 6.5 inch woofers as the 550's, a 3inch mid-driver, and the same Vifa XT-25 tweeter that you will find in the 750's, 550's, 250's, and 200. The 200 also has the ability to do multi-channel music really well! It has great extension for a center speaker and it will play down to the upper 40's in room! If there is one speaker that is a must have in the Rocket lineup this speaker is it!

    The RS150's are something that you are going to have to look to someone else for as I have never heard these speakers. I have read that they are a bit brighter than the others that you are looking at and they use a 1 inch silk dome tweeter.

    As far as the receiver goes, if you haven't already purchase the Onkyo I would look elsewhere. Onkyo has had a reputation for over rating their amp section. I have seen bench tests on the 900 where it was rated at 110 watts per channel and when 5 channels were being driven it was only putting out 34 watts per channel. I would look at the offerings from HK, Denon, Yamaha, before the Onkyo. www.av123.com has package pricing available with Denon receivers so you might want to talk to them about that.

    With the sub depending on how loud you want to play it and the extension that you are looking for will decide what sub will best fit your needs. I have both a Rocket UFW-10 as well as a dual 20-39cs+/samson combo. I would give the aestetics edge to the Rocket sub as it is just as beautiful to look at as the Rockets themselves. As far as pure spl and extension go, the SVS is going to win that battle in most cases. The 25-31PCI will extend flat down to about 21-22hz in most room and I would guess that you will be able to get spl levels well into the 100+ range before bottoming the sub. As far as design, the Rocket sub is a 10inch sealed with a 325 watt digital amp. It also has a built in parametric EQ that is a nice feature! The SVS will be a tube design that will have a ported 12inch woofer with a 325 watt bash amp. Both of these subs are great performers but they both have different design goals IMO. It's all about finding the right speaker/sub/receiver combo for you and your family! Good luck with your decision! [​IMG]
     
  6. Alex Prosak

    Alex Prosak Supporting Actor

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    Hi Jeff, welcome to the forum. I'm another Rocket/SVS HT owner and I think the systems are tough to beat for the money. I own Package 2 with an additional pair of 150s for surround back. I honestly haven't listened to the 150s on their own but they do fill in the rear very nicely. Even though they use a different tweeter, they blend with my front end extremely well.

    I agree with the others that the Onkyo will not do the Rockets justice, definitely talk to the guys at av123 about a Rocket package with a Denon receiver. As Nhan suggested, a 2803 or 3803 should fit nicely. Rockets really do shine with good power behind them.

    Your parents room is huge and I think a PCi sub or UFW-10 wouldn't quite fill the room. I agree that a PC+ (or a PB-1+ which should be available before your parents move) would be more suitable for that room. Other possibilities would be a Hsu VTF-3R which will match the Rocket finish or wait until the UFW-12 is available from AV123. I'm using a PB-2+ in a room that is about 6000 ft^3 but open to some other areas. If my room was sealed it would be about right for me but I sometimes wish I had a bit more oomph.
     
  7. greg baker

    greg baker Stunt Coordinator

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    I would recommend a more powerful receiver to drive your system. I have a HK-520(since replaced by the 525) It is a High current amp that could push your system without straining. That particular Onkyo receiver is good but it is their entry level model that would be hard pressed to drive your system. I have also heard good things about the Outlaw Amp(seperates)


    Greg
     
  8. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    Welcome Jeff. I have a 550/200/300/UFW-10 combination in a 3,000 cu ft room (somewhat open on one end). The 300s have the same tweeter as the 150s and I like Alex find that they blend well with the front speakers.

    With that much volume, I would recommend a different amp than your choice. Nahm and the others have made good suggestions. If the system looks are important to your father, you should consider the VTF-3R (the cabinets are made in the same factory as the Rockets) or wait for the UFW-12. Otherwise the SVS suggestions are very good.

    Have fun and good luck.
     
  9. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    Your on the right track... What a son... I would be quite a proud papa.. Anyway I too have both Rockets and an SVS PB2+. You will need a bigger amp/receiver for that room. A denon 3803 could possibly work as it does quite well for my 3000 Sq Ft. room the problem arises in the sub. Your going to need the PB2+ for that I am afraid. Call Ron at SVS and send him your room measurements and see what he thinks. He loves helping folks and will not over sell you. If he thinks he can get you the bass you need for less he will tell it to you straigt. Let us all know how things go. You could not pick a better system for the money.
     
  10. Alex Prosak

    Alex Prosak Supporting Actor

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    Definitely get in touch with Ron. Like Mike said, he won't oversell anyone. In fact, I've often seen him recommend competitors subs. The guys at SVS are straight forward, no BS kind of guys. Awesome customer service.
     
  11. BobAlbano

    BobAlbano Second Unit

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    Jeff, with Rockets and SVS you have picked two of the best companies for bang for the buck products and customer service on the face of the earth...IMO! [​IMG]
     
  12. Jeff B.

    Jeff B. Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for all the great replies guys. It really is appreciated. The overall feeling I'm getting is that I need to think about a more powerful amp and sub. I think I am going to email av123 about a package deal with a avr-2803. I see that the rockets are all 6 ohms, except the rsc200 which is 4. So according to denon that means each speaker would be getting at least 125 watts of power. I think that should be plenty knowing my dad's listening habits.

    I am still unsure about a subwoofer though. I think now the best option is probably the ufw-10. My reasons for this are the finish, and price. I know svs is a great value, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. Also, I have to be realistic as to what kind of use this system is actually going to get. I know that I would want the svs, but I honestly don't think my parents are going to be watching movies at full reference, and then complaining of a lack of bass.

    Thanks again for the great suggestions guys. I am definitely going to email av123 about some package pricing. I think I'm also going to have my dad read this thread so he knows I'm not making all this stuff up. [​IMG]

    Jeff
     
  13. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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  14. Alex Prosak

    Alex Prosak Supporting Actor

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    I understand. FWIW, if you use the coupon code 'AVS' when you purchase a Hsu VTF-3R, you can get it for $849. This sub has the same finish as the rockets as av123 builds their cabinets. This sub certainly won't shake an entire home like a PB-2+ but it will provide lower extension and do a better job filling a room that large.
     
  15. Eric C D

    Eric C D Second Unit

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    I agree with Alex. With the size room you're talking about, I don't think the VTF-3 will approach reference. But it will provide the lower freqs that are on lots of DVDs and will sounds like it should do a good job at volumes your parents are likely to use.

    Plus the model Alex recommended (3R) will look just as classy as the UFW-10, only larger. And your dad is still a guy - he deserves a Tim Taylor "more power." Doesn't have to use it all the time, but he'll probably want to show it off once in a while. [​IMG]

    Seriously, even at moderate levels, it takes a "oomph" to recreate the really low freqs - not just for loudness, but for realism. Just another vote for more oomph and lower extension for what it's worth.

    enjoy!
     

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