Opinions on Sony 9000ES SACD/DVD? (1 Viewer)

[Steven Simon]

Ric,

When did you get the 9000??

 

[KeithH]

Chip, I am amazed at your restraint. How could you live with the 'S9000ES for so many months and not buy SACDs? Anyway, if you ever do a comparison of the 'S9000ES and 'C555ES with CDs and stereo SACDs, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.
As for me, I still prefer stereo music (CDs, SACDs, and DVD-Audio) to multi-channel music. The main reason for that, I suppose, is that I am a purist. The middle-of-the-band mixes that are common to multi-channel music are enjoyable once in awhile, but not for everyday listening. I will concede, however, that my views on multi-channel music could very well be a result of my home-theater system being inferior to my main stereo system in the same room. I am perfectly happy with my home-theater system for movies, but it doesn't come close to my main stereo system for music. Still, it works well enough for multi-channel music, which I listen to for fun and not critically.
I did upgrade my center speaker from the Energy e:XL-C to the e:XL-C2 a few weeks ago. I got a great deal on a trade-in with Harvey Electronics in Paramus (my brother lives up that way). Whereas an Energy dealer in Delaware and one in suburban Philly would have only given me $50 for the e:XL-C and then sold me the e:XL-C2 for the full street price of $350, Harvey Electronics gave me $125 for the e:XL-C and sold me the e:XL-C2 for just $295. Not bad at all.

 

[Ken Bohn]

Well I have been reading various articles and posts, then thinking, then reading some more, then thinking some more etc, etc etc. I plan to take home the 9000ES to try it out and see how it sounds and see how the DVD performs over my existing unit. The demo 9000ES at the dealer has about 50-70 hrs on it so I should get a decent impression of the sound.
My next move will then be to return it and get my hands on the 333ES, possibly the 555ES to demo and likely purchase. Why favor the 333ES? I am thinking that if something better comes out in six months then I can trade-up and my dealer will be happy to do so. However if I shoot higher for the 555ES and a good comparable single disc comes out then it maybe more of a swap which dealers like to shy away from.
I also read that the 333ES is 2-ch vs the 555ES multi-channel. I guess I really do need to give multichannel a chance before I rule it out but since I am set up with Energy main speakers, Polk Audio CS-450 center and F/X 500 surrounds, Citation amp for mains, H/K 5800 amp for surround - well I have a mixed bag of components that I'll never be able to match without complete replacement of the surround system. Perhaps I'm being too picky on this point but it seems to me that this would be the only way to do it right. It would be a good excuse to replace the Polks but I would rather put more money into 2 ch upgrades (Veritas 2.8's maybe?). BTW, my Citation 7.0 is DPL not DD and doesn't have 5 channel input, this also complicates matters. I think I'll have the 7.0 as a 2 ch pre-amp if nothing else for many years.
At least with an ES changer I know that my H/K changer would get punted out the door for sure. If I go single disc I will always debate whether to keep the H/K changer for use when I just want background music.
Making progress
Ken

 

[KeithH]

Ken said:

At least with an ES changer I know that my H/K changer would get punted out the door for sure.

Absolutely true. The 'C333ES and 'C555ES are on a much higher plane as CD players than the H/K unit.

 

[Mike-W]

I have had the 9000ES for over a year. For progressive DVD's I haven't seen anything yet that tops the picture quality. As a SACD player it's great. I was originally only interested in it for DVD's but after listening to the sampler disc I was hooked. But when listening to standard Redbook CD's it's sound doesn't match the performance of SACD's or DVD's. The other thing I didn't like is that it doesn't read CDR's or CDRW's. I ended up buying a Rega Jupiter CD player for Redbook CD's.

 

[Mike Knapp]

Im not going to argue with Ric, he is a qualified enthusiast whos opinion I value. I do not agree with him on this assessment and will state my own opinion.
I will say this about the 9000 chroma bug. If you can see it you have one of three situations happening.
A) You have your monitor poorly calibrated or are not using the player to its full potential (Progressive/component)
B) You have a poor symbiance between the source and the display (perhaps cabling or brand incompatibility)
C) You have dirty contact lenses
I can see the "chroma bug" on 3 of my 600 disc collection, and then only when really, really looking hard for it and usually only when the image is paused.
It simply is a non-issue if you have the correct equipment and proper set-up.
I challenge anyone to come over to my place and spot it on my rig without being told where to look or knowing in advance where it is. It is that miniscule a problem.
It is a fly on an elephants ass.
Mike

 

[Chip E]

"It is a fly on an elephants ass."
That's histerical!
But, oh so true.....

 

[Ken Bohn]

Keith, I don't think I'll have the chance to demo the 9000 and a 333 or 555 together since my dealer only has the 9000ES on hand now. Perhaps I can get one from another store here, something I'll look into.

However, my experience with playing around with audio equipment is that there is a break-in period that exists (at least for the mid-fi equipment I try out) that must be allowed for. If I get my hands on a 333 or 555 I'll have to make sure that it is a fair comparison and thus have to pay attention to this point. I see the 9000ES in operation at the one dealer when I stop by on occasion so I know it is getting use, I'll have to be leary of a demo unit from another place though. What if I favor the 9000 over a 555 that I demo? I guess all I can do is put on many more hours on the 555 and see what my ears tell me. At least then I know which player is right for me.

As a side point, when I bought my H/K three years ago I couldn't find a really good quality 5 disc unit, now I look for a good quality single disk, throw in SACD requirement, and only 5 disc units come up as the likely option. Kind of interesting .... frustrating, but still interesting.

Yes, and the Marantz units are out of my price range. I would rather go mid-range now and then make a step-up in a few more years once the smoke clears over SACD, DVD-A, 5 ch, 2 ch, combo players, other mfgs offering more machines, etc, etc.

Ken

 

[KeithH]

Mike-W said:

But when listening to standard Redbook CD's it's sound doesn't match the performance of SACD's or DVD's.

I have read many comments from owners of the 'S9000ES on Audio Asylum saying that the weak link of this unit is its redbook CD performance. SACDs will, of course, sound better than CDs on the 'S9000ES and any other SACD player. I assume you are saying that the 'S9000ES is a more capable DVD player than CD player in absolute terms. I didn't take your comment to mean that you compared music DVDs (compressed audio) and found that they sound better than CDs.

The Rega Jupiter is a transport only, correct?

Ken,

I was thinking that you would be able to get your hands on demo units to compare. They probably wouldn't all have the same number of hours on them, but it could make for a better comparison than using them fresh out of the boxes or using one demo and one brand new component.

Traditionally, carousel changers (and megachangers, for that matter) have not been considered audiophile components in term of build and sound quality. Thus, we have seen few high-quality carousel changers over the years. A few that come to mind are an Anthem unit, Rotel RCC-955, a unit by Arcam, and the Cal Audio Labs CL-10. Many have said that the Cal Audio Labs unit is the best CD changer ever made. Of the units I mentioned, the Anthem and Rotel models are probably the only ones still available. I know the Arcam and Cal units are no longer available. Now, Sony's ES SACD carousel changers are probably the best carousel CD changers available. They are truly excellent. Unfortunately, Sony (and a lot of the other major manufacturers) tends to only provide changers as mid-priced players in North America. For example, if you want an ES single-disc SACD player here, your only option is the SCD-XA777ES, which retails for $3000 USD. By contrast, in the UK, they have the 'XA777ES and the 'XA333ES single-disc players. The 'XA333ES is reported to be an excellent player in the British hi-fi magazines, though it is a step-down model from the 'XA777ES. Sony is also marketing the 'XB770 UKSE single-disc player in the UK, which is from its QS series. Thus, it is not an ES unit, but is better than Sony's mass-market, XE, players

 

[Ken Bohn]

Thanks once again for the info Keith and other members.

Looks like after a demo I should be ending up with a Sony 5 disc unit when I consider price, application, forum responses and other reading. I'll give the 9000ES a try since the option is there and I am curious about the improvement DVD playback will be. Hopefully I can get a 333 or 555 in my house at the same time but it might be more difficult to do this. I'll definitely see what I can do with a little planning and some phone calls.

Ken

 

[RAF]

Interesting discussion going on here in this thread and with a wide variety of opinions.
I can't really comment on whether of not the 333 or any other player plays CD's or SACD's better than my 9000ES because I don't have access to a 333 (nor do I wish to make room on a shelf at this time since I have other priorities right now.) Therefore, I will not get into a pissing match with anyone regarding the reproduction of CD's or SACD's in comparison with my 9000ES since it would not be coming from me in first person singular mode.
However, I've very, very happy with the way my 9000 handles CD's and, of course, 2 channel SACD has to be heard to be believed - especially some of the stuff I remember from vinyl days!
And regarding the infamous "chroma bug" and the 9000? I believe I'm in a position to comment with authority on this and other general aspects of the quality of the video performance of the 9000. I'm using a SONY VW10HT front projection monitor projecting onto a 110" diagonal 16:9 Stewart StudioTek 130 screen in a completely darkened room with progressive input. If flaws are there, they will surely be visible with my set-up. And I repeat what some other people have also stated here - I see no chroma bug on the 9000ES. And I've run all the tests and looked for the "bug" on all the discs usually referred to in the articles on it (The TOY STORY menu for example, etc. etc.)
I don't know if I'm just lucky, or, as is most likely the case, my equipment is properly adjusted, but it isn't there! (Thanks, Michael, for backing me up on this.) And, without question on my set-up, the overall picture coming from the 9000 is superior to the RP91. Not by a large margin, but I prefer it. Don't misunderstand. They are both excellent pictures, but the 9000 is slightly better IMO. Remember, the bigger the picture, the better a chance you have to see any flaws or warts. On my 45" Pioneer Elite, on the other hand, the two pictures are virtually indistinguishable.
(BTW, when Parker and Ron were at my house last summer we discussed these exact points, chroma bug and the 9000/91 comparison) and they were able to see this with their own eyes).
And, in conclusion, just because I, and some others here, prefer to listen to two channel SACD doesn't make us Luddites by any stretch of the imagination. Most of us are also Home Theater Enthusiats and revel in 5.1 soundtracks for films. So, yes, we do have good center channel sound. In fact I'm a big advocate of making sure that people have three identical channels for the front soundstage since (a) The center channel is the most important channel for dialogue and (b)if your front soundstage is not balanced then you lose a lot when dialogue moves across the stage. I even went so far as to purchase three Marantz MA700 monoblocks to boost and match the front three channels. I'm still using my receiver (Denon 5700) to power the surround channels since these, in my opinion are truly effects channels and are not as important for the overall enjoyment of the production. Unfortunately, when some recordings start placing you in the "center" of the band or other things I still (IMO) consider gimmicky they don't excite me for normal listening and music appreciation. Yes, I love an occasional special effects recording, but not as a steady diet.
Besides, once a person becomes "enlightened" and realizes that "Elitist Bastard" really means "The Dude Knows His Shit" he understands the whole concept.
Right, Uncle Mike?

 

[Chip E]

Great post Robert, lol...
I still don't see any critters on my 46" Mitsubishi with my 9K either. (53 1/2 weeks worth)

 

[Mike-W]

Keith, you are correct, the 9000ES is a more capable DVD player than CD player in absolute terms.
The current version of the Jupiter (Jupiter 2000) is an all in one player. The previous version was a transport only with a seperate chassis for the electronics. I think the electronics was called the Ito.
From their web site Link Removed
"The Jupiter 2000 CD Player is housed in the Rega custom built extruded aluminium case and includes the heat sink base assembly to give added mechanical stability to the mechanical parts. The Jupiter also has the new top loading lid assembly. It uses the same basic circuit topology as the original Jupiter and Io but with improvements in the DAC (Digital to Analogue Converter), power supply and clocking stages. The Jupiter CD player has additional sonic improvements, to provide a higher level of performance over that of the Planet.
The dual differential Digital to Analogue Converter is based around two custom built IC40 DAC chips with separate DAC's for the left and right channels. DC servo control has been used in the post DAC amplifier and filter stages thereby keeping the capacitors in the signal path to a minimum. The power supply is made up from 7 separate power supplies feeding the mechanism, PLL, DAC digital and analogue sections, micro controller, display, analogue amplifier and filter. All the stages for the clock PLL and in the signal path are double regulated. There are two physically separate raw supplies for the noisy stages (motor drivers etc.) and for the clean stages (DAC, Clock & DSP etc.). The Jupiter has a generously rated toroidal transformer with separate windings for the two raw power supplies. The signal for the Mechanism is processed by a data regeneration stage, where the Data, Bit Clock & Word Clock are realigned and then fed to the Rega IC40 DACs for conversion. The Jupiter CD player uses a high stability oscillator module for the main clock. The Master clock feeding the CD Mechanism and DSP is derived from a PLL clock stage for added stability. The Jupiter uses a high performance CDM145BL-5BD25 kit with an improved display and a better level of user functionality."
Dollar for dollar this is one of the best CD only players. It was reviewed in Sterophile by Sam Tellig a couple of months ago and he called it the best CD only player regardless of cost.

 

[RicP]

Mike et al...
Mike when you say that the "chroma bug" is not that big a deal, I'm inclined to agree with you. On the whole it is not a major issue...however...
to me on 3 or so discs it is somewhat pronounced. I almost wish that no one had ever pointed it out to me, because then I saw it everytime on certain discs. On other discs I noticed nothing, but on some, and they were ones I liked a lot...it was there.
I know what an audio stickler you are Mike and I know for sure that if a CD player had a 1/2 second glitch on only 3 CD's in your collection, but those 3 were in heavy rotation...you'd jettison the CD player.
That's what I did with the 9000. I bought it, and had it for about 2 months. I was not 100% satisfied so I sold it.
I don't believe that I ever said the 9000 was a poor DVD player or that it was somehow massively inferior...all I said was that IMO, the 91 is better...for me....ok?
I will stand by my statements about the Redbook performance on the 9000. It cannot compare to the 333ES. If you are more interested in video than audio, the 9000 may be a perfect unit for you. However if CD playback is extremely important to you, like it is to me, then you may or may not be satisfied with the Redbook performance of the 9000.
It's a great machine..no doubt there...but it isn't all things to all people.
That's the last I'll have to say on this topic...enjoy your gear everyone..it's all about the software though.

 

[Mike Knapp]

Ric,

No problem here my man...we are golden.

Mike

 

[Ken Bohn]

Thanks also to you RicP for posting on this thread. It was an important reply you made much earlier where you said you have had both the 9000 and 333 to compare to. I personally need to know more info as to why a person likes/dislikes a product, the additional posts of yours accomplished this.

I don't believe that I am the right guy to comment on video performance given my preference to 2 ch stereo thus I won't let any discussion on the 9000ES as a DVD player direct my final decision.

If I have a chance to demo these two units I'll give a brief view of what I find regarding the audio performance. Just to summarize: all the posts and other reading I have done conclude that the 333 or 555 should be the better choice to fulfill my desire to obtain a good CD player that does SACD.

Till then,

Ken

 

[RAF]

Ken,
Despite my preference for 2 channel SACD instead of multichannel sound for listening, one of these days I'll probably get around to adding a new CD player to my arsenal and, at that point it will most likely be something in the 555 family or similar. My point was that I'm fine with the 9000ES for CD/SACD reproduction right now but, of course, not having a multichannel SACD player makes my life "incomplete."
Inconsistent reasoning? Nah. Just the nature of the beast. True HT nuts understand this completely.

And at that point I'll listen to the many people who's opinions on audio SACD & CD that I respect here and purchase one of the preferred units.
But I'm not planning on trashing my 9000ES anytime soon, if ever. As I said, it's built like a tank and will give me many, many years of faithful service. And it still remains my video source of choice in all cases.

 

[Chip E]

Robert,
I know what you mean.... Owning the 9K, and already having two channel SACD capability with the 9K, there was just NO way i would've bought the 333ES. I hadda have the ability to do multichannel! hence the 555ES, lol... BTW, i watched Jurassic Park III & Pearl Harbor this week and they both looked great.

 

[Darrel McBane]

LarryB,

Under the Audio setup of the 9000ES you can adjust the 9000ES some by using the Audio Filter. Try going from SHARP to SLOW. It's worth a try.

Hope this of some help.

 

[Ken Bohn]

Robert, (and others): I am actually a little suprised that the 555 or 333 appears to get 100% vote for SACD/CD playback over the 9000ES. If the opinions were a little more varied I may be thinking more about keeping the 9000ES after demoing it. However over the years I have developed a great respect (as most people have) for the quality of posts on the HTF and thus I must take this consensus as one of the key factors influencing my pursuit of the right component.

Also, I am very much in favor of separates (or dedicated components) thus if I can obtain better sound with a 555ES (probably my likely choice) and leave the DVD player upgrade another year then I will. As mentioned at the start, I do plan to upgrade my TV next year so at that time I could then see what is 'cutting edge' for DVD playback. Multichannel SACD playback however is a long, long, way off given the extensive upgrades I would need to do it right. ie replacing a kick-ass pre-amp in my Citation 7.0 - I love this unit, I'm sure it would support much higher performance gear than what I have now.

Once again though it does seem to be a unanimous victory for the 333 or 555 over the 9000ES. Also there has not been another contender weighing in at the price point I am considering - this point is interesting but does actually make me feel a lot more comfortable rather than uncomfortable.

Ken