Opinions on Panasonic PT-56HX41? (1 Viewer)

[ManW_TheUncool]

Patrick,

Are you sure about the reprocessing?? I always thought they just vary the scanning width of the CRTs to change between 4:3 and 16x9 images on 16x9 sets. I didn't think they needed any digital reprocessing for this.

_Man_

 

[Patrick Sun]

Well, where do the gray bars on the sides come from then?
There has to be some width reprocessing to include the side bars to get 4:3 to fit in the 16x9 space. That you can choose (on some models) to have either gray or black side bars would also make me think the TV is doing the re-processing and just substituting one set of color values for another for the left and right side bars.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Hmmm... I think you're right about the grey side bars. Hmmm... In the worst case where they never actually vary the scanning width btw 4x3 and 16x9, which they might to cut costs, they could be throwing away 25% of the horizontal resolution(!) much like w/ 16x9 downconversion for vertical resolution. That would suck! :frowning:
Is this kind of reprocessing done on ALL

 

[Patrick Sun]

Hahahaha! Welcome to my dilemna!

To make this decision, you must simply clarify your objectives:

1. To go 16x9: Will you be watching 60% (or more) DVDs, and HDTV programming over 4:3 TV programming (knowing that you'd be giving up viewing size for 4:3 material)?

2. To go 4:3: Will you be watching 60% (or more) 4:3 TV programming over DVD/HDTV (knowing that you'd be missing out on 16x9 enhanced DVDs in their full glory)?

I think I fall in the 2nd group.

I really do think that I should look at this purchase as a 4-5 year stop-gap until the HDTV standards get sorted out, and then in 2006 or 2007, buy the 16x9 HDTV that makes the most sense for me at that time.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

So it sounds like you should go for the HX41 then!
Hmmmm... Here's another thought. Does the HX41 do the same kind of reprocessing for 4x3 images when set to 16x9 mode? If not, then maybe that's the way to go!
Remember, there should be no loss of resolution for 16x9-enhanced DVDs in the 16x9 mode. It should theoretically be just as good as a 16x9 Panny from last year, no?
Hmmmm... But would the HX41 know how to zoom 4x3 letterbox images when in 16x9 mode since this is a service menu setting?

 

[Patrick Sun]

I put my money with my mouth was: I just got back from Circuit City and placed a 20% downpayment on their last shipment of this model. I should get the set in a couple of weeks. The sale guy did start pushing the warranty hard, first he tried the 4 year ($399), and then after I hedged on it, he offered the 2 year ($249) warranty. I still have 30 days to decide on it, but I think I'll just save my money up for the next RPTV, and just roll the dice on this purchase today.
I have no idea about any of those sizing scenarios.
I just know that this set will display 4:3 material normally, and I'll just have to live with downconverted 16x9 DVDs for the time being. I have a Panasonic RP-91 DVD player, so I think I'm okay in that department. If I do get a HDTV STB, I will have to capability to watch 1080i OTA. But I don't think it's a priority since there's only 5-6 HDTV stations broadcasting at this time. Maybe later.
I'm so glad I had a sounding board today. Thanks, Man.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Hmmm... I just called up my local CC, and the salesperson says it's on special order now, if I want to pickup, OR available for delivery. What does that mean???

Patrick, what exactly did they tell when you bought it? Did they mention special order at all?

I'm just wondering if the salesperson was just trying to get me "in the door" even though the TV might really be all sold out...

 

[Patrick Sun]

CC totally sold out of the sets from their warehouses, but there's like one more shipment of the sets that will show up in 2 weeks. To order one, a 20% deposit was needed to secure your place in the order queue for the last batch of sets (around 200 of them on this shipment) as a special order. This is what I wound up doing (CC charged my credit card for $260 as the 20% deposit).

 

[MichaelFusick]

Yes.

Patrick is correct.

After they are gone, they are gone.

CC does have a return policy untill Janaury 31st now, because of the holidays and the 20% down is of coarse fully refundable.

The 56" panny is quite the deal...

I was never a big fan of Panny sets myself..But for the money it's hard to go wrong.

 

[Patrick Sun]

And there's a possibility that I won't even get lucky with my reservation for this last batch of sets. So I get to keep my fingers crossed for a few weeks.
Also, I think today is the last day of the sale (according to the sales circular). :frowning:
I really wished I didn't hem and haw starting this past Sunday because I probably would have had the set in my house by today. But I really had to make sure in my own mind that it would be the right thing to do for me and my viewing situation.

 

[Jan Strnad]

Man,
I can see that you're wrestling with this dilemma (though, as dilemmas go, choosing the best RPTV for you isn't such a bad one!). I'd recommend taking a deep breath and a more "logical" approach.
First, set your priotities. Forget percentages (sorry, Patrick). What programming do you care about the most? What programming makes up your most critical viewing?
For me, the programming I care most about is contemporary movies on DVD. Therefore, I bought the RPTV that did the best job on widescreen, anamorphic DVDs.
Every TV requires some compromises, so I compromised on the over-the-air/satellite broadcasts. The 4:3 picture is smaller than the 16:9 picture; the PQ is maximized for 16:9. That fits my preferences perfectly.
Your viewing priorities may be different from mine, skewed toward broadcast, maybe, over DVD. Remember that it isn't what you watch the most but what you care about the most. So, if current or older broadcast material (say, Star Trek reruns) is most important to you, you'll want to find a 4:3 set; if widescreen movies on DVD are reduced in size compared to a broadcast show, that's the trade-off that best suits your viewing preference.
Also, remember that a lot of the talk on this and other forums concerns teeny-tiny differences in picture quality. Re-processing the broadcast 4:3 image to show on a 16:9 display, for instance, is insignificant compared with the quality of the original signal. The mediocre signal you get from cable/satellite is going to degrade your picture far, far more than this re-processing.
With a high def set, however, I found that the picture from satellite is still better than what I used to get from my 35" direct view, NTSC set.
Anyway, just keep in mind that all factors don't carry equal weight. You have to get your priorities straight before you can make an intelligent decision.
Good luck!
Jan

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Thanks for the different and invaluable perspective, Jan. I think you're quite right.
In fact, I've actually decided to go w/ a Panny 53WX42 now, instead of either Panny 4x3 or Toshiba 4x3, unless I find any serious flaws w/ it before I place the order w/ OneCall tomorrow or Saturday. The 53WX42 costs about the same as the Toshiba 4x3 I originally wanted to get and will actually give me a larger widescreen picture for movies, which is the real reason I wanted to get a new TV--well, I did also want the full advantage of 16x9 DVDs of course. The 4x3 image size will still be much larger than our existing 32"--probably equiv to ~43"--so it's plenty big enough. I'll just have to live w/ the reduced quality on the occasional DVD (or LD) that need zooming. And the kids can just watch their videos on the old 32" to be banished to their playroom.
NOW, I can't wait to get that 53" in our family room so I can really enjoy some great flix in their full widescreen glory! No more squinting at Lord of the Rings and the like, especially LotR(!). It almost aches that I still have to wait a little while longer to be able to see LotR at almost 4x the size of what I get from the old 32". That movie just screams for a big widescreen set--and it certainly helped convince my wife of the "urgent need" for a big, new TV. YUM!!
Anyway, thanks much to everyone for your invaluable input both now and in the past! GREAT forum!
Best regards AND HAPPY THANKSGIVING!
_Man_

 

[Patrick Sun]

Man, I would urge you to go see for yourself in person at a store the Panny 53WX42 and see if the under-sized base is a problem to you (it was to me because I just didn't like the way the sides overhung the small base of the TV set - totaly personal preference).
Jan, I think we are quibbling with the glass is half full or half empty situation.
I watch more 4:3 material, so my final choice (unless I'm too late in the CC special order queue) was to go with the 4:3 set. I don't think it's just what you care about, but what programming you actually use your TV to watch, and after evaluating my personal viewing patterns, over 15 hours of 4:3 TV over 1-2 DVDs per week, well, it's what I watch, and what I care to be watching, I don't think the 2 are necessarily mutally exclusive.
So, in the end, it's the same thing. Why should I enjoy myself less in watching 15 hours of TV/week in a smaller video footprint just so I can watch 4 hours of DVDs in 16x9 mode? For me, it does come to down to what programming you spend your time watching on the TV.
Plus, this is a transitional TV for me, meaning if I were to upgrade in 3-4 years, I would not be heartbroken because of the price I paid for the 4:3 HDTV set. I look at it as being $1/day to enjoy a 56" 4:3 TV. I wasted my money worse before on other stuff.
I fully understand the allure of the 16x9 sets due to DVDs being able to present a sweet video experience on them. And it'd be very easy to prioritize DVDs over OTA/SAT TV content.
Of course, in 1-2 years, I won't even have a choice of a 4:3 HDTV set anymore, so then it's on to best bang-for-the-buck 16x9 HDTV that fit my size/quality criteria then.

Oh yeah, Gobble Gobble! I'm still so stuffed from the afternoon meal...whew...

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Ok, ok. No need to fight over my buying decision.
The truth is I sort of take middle ground between you guys. My main reason for getting a bigger, better TV is really the movie experience, and Jan's posts helped me remember this fact. I'm actually reasonably satisfied w/ our old 32" for regular TV viewing, so the 43"-equiv image of a 53" widescreen set will be plenty big enough. For most 4x3 content that might look bad on the Panny, I could live w/ using the old 32". And actually, most of that will be watched by my wife and kids anyway. And really, we've been watching less and less regular TV content anyhow.
And as you pointed out, I need to weigh my situation and go for the compromise that works best for me (and the family), instead of trying to chase after what doesn't exist, ie. a great set for both 4x3 and 16x9 viewing on a budget. At first, I thought the Toshiba 4x3 might be the answer, but then I realized maybe not. Meanwhile, the Panny 16x9's, which I overlooked due to last year's mediocre reviews, caught my attention.
Anyway, as you advised, I will try to check out the Panny 53" to make sure I'm comfortable w/ the substantial overhang. I can see it in pictures, but I guess it's best to see it in person to make sure. It's good though that I haven't found any complaints from owners about it being a problem.
Again, thanks all for your invaluable input! Hope y'all had a great Thanksgiving Day...
_Man_

 

[MichaelFusick]

It's over...

The 56" Panny is now $1999...

The deal was HOT while it lasted...

 

[Patrick Sun]

It shouldn't be this hard to buy a RPTV.

It's been over 2 weeks from my "special" order of the Panny 56HX41p (I put down a 20% deposit on one of the last shipments). I go into Circuit City and ask about the status of the RPTV shipment, and my saleman goes looking around, and finally comes back and tells me that it doesn't look good on the special order, BUT, there's one of these models in layaway from a wayward employees who's been fired, so if I wanted THAT particular PRTV set, the manager would cancel the layaway on the fired employee and I would have to buy it tonight. That was fine with me if they wanted to screw their ex-exployees like that (if this ex-employee even exists).

I filled out of the online credit application at the register, waited a couple of minutes and was approved for their max limit due to a good credit history on my part.

Then the push came once again for the 4 year extended warranty. These salesmen might hate having to pitch it because they sure don't like listening to customer objections to the pricing of them (like from me). I told the salesman that I'd only go as much as the Best Buy price of $299 for a 4 year Extended Warranty because for the cost of the set, the $399 was 30% of the cost of the RPTV set, and if it went tango-uniform, the most I'd get back from them is the $1299, so to me it just wasn't worth $399.

The salesman goes back with my "offer" to his manager, wastes more of my time, and comes back 5 minutes later with all of these "reasons why they can't match the Best Buy EW:

1. Best Buy service uses "refurbished" spare parts (like how would they really know that to be fact?)

2. Best Buy doesn't have a "2-repair, lemon" policy, they supposedly just keep trying to fix it and fix it.

Blah blah blah...

They still didn't care about the point of they would only be on the hook for the sale price of the unit (should they deem that it was un-repairable or too costly to repair - all in the fine print).

So, no EW for me. They'll deliver it to mi casa on Tuesday. This is going to be a long 4 days...

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Patrick,

I hope this finally all works out for you. If not, maybe you should see if you can get a 47wx49 for $850 from Sams Club like another poster mentioned in a separate thread. That's such a great deal.

_Man_

 

[Patrick Sun]

Well, got the call from the delivery service, the new TV should arrive tomorrow between 7:30 a.m. and 9:30 a.m.

I guess that means I'll be moving some stuff around after I get through watching stuff on TV tonight.

Tick tock tick tock...

 

[Patrick Sun]

You know, life's funny. So I get up, take a shower, and make sure I'm ready by 7:30 a.m. Well, no delivery truck for 30 minutes, so I decide to do some vacuuming, clean up the place. Still no truck. I surf a bit, still no truck. Finally, it's now around 9:10 a.m., and my stomach starts growling. I prepare a bowl of cereal, and as soon as I finish pouring the milk over the cereal, I hear the truck. I tuck the kitties in my bedroom, and swing my front door wide open. About 10 minutes later, the new TV is in place, and it just fits within my wire rack (48" wide, 45.5" usable display width after counting the legs), so that's a relief.

These TVs never look as big in the showroom, but when it was placed in my living room, it starts taking up some serious real estate. But it works, no visible damage (I watch the delivery dudes uncrate it, and lower it to the street very carefully, and they got it near the front door with the handtruck, and then used these suction grips to carry it into the house with nary a scratch). I did some minor 9-point convergence, set all the TV tube settings to their midline position, and am just going to let to do some burning in.

 

[Patrick Sun]

One of the first DVDs I tested out with the new TV was, of course, Bring It On, simply for the color palatte of this DVD. The only thing that was a bit distracting was edge enhancement. But, on my old TV, it was never "clear/sharp" enough to even show me EE, so this may be a curse with the new TV.
I hooked up the component input through my Outlaw 950 (to test for the component video passthrough) with the DVD played on a Panasonic RP-91, and just for curiousity's sake, I ran it in the Progressive mode (but still downconverted). The only time the downconversion shows up is in crowd scenes from a distance, so that's not too bad for now. The component output quality didn't really seem to matter if it was 480i or 480p, I'm guessing that's primarily due to the line doubler.
I took some screen shots (bear in mind the middle tend to run a little brighter on camera, but you don't see it in real life, and also this is with most of the TV's video settings near the middle and not even Avia calibrated yet):
Photo 1: when Missy gets plinked in the nose by Sparky.
Photo 2: Missy being coy on her first football game.
Photo 3: Missy listening intently (middle is a little washed out due to the digital camera's point of view).
Photo 4: Torrance telling Aaron "Buh-bye!"
Photo 5: Missy smiling at Torrance's little brother wearing another cheerleader's panties on his head.
As you can tell in some photos, there's some EE going on with this DVD.