Opinions on Martin Logans Requested (long)

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Doug_B, Oct 26, 2001.

  1. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

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    I may be auditioning some Martin Logan speakers soon and would like to get some opinions from those who own or have listened to them, as I haven't seen a lot on this forum about them. Some questions I have to guide the responses:
    - Has anyone heard the Aeons yet? I believe they are fairly new and replace the Aerius i, which appears to be similar in size and has the same woofer size as the Aeon. I believe they retail for $3K/pr. This is about my sweet spot for cost of mains, and the 10" width is good for me too.
    - The Scenario is a bit smaller than the Aeon, especially in the height, which I guess means a smaller diaphragm / panel. Is the size of the diaphragm a good predictor of the overall sound produced by the panel? The Scenarios retail for $2K/pr, I believe.
    - Is there a noticeable quality jump to the Ascents? They are $4K/pr retail and have a 10" woofer.
    - How important is the woofer in the ML design? Is it important for 2 channel if not using the sub, or is a sub typically recommended? Assume bass guitar is the lowest bass I'll hear in my music, and that I'll have an SVS CS Ultra.
    - How does the dispersion of the MLs compare to other speakers? I noticed that the specs on the ML site mention 30 degrees horizontal for many of the models. Is this good, average, or poor?
    - How do the 2 center channel speakers compare, Theater vs Cinema, soundwise? There's a considerable difference in cost, with the Theater at $2500 retail. Not sure I want to go there.
    - How does the Script sound for surround duties? Are they sufficient in a multichannel music application? Note that I have no experience with multichannel music and thus do not know if I'll like it.
    - How does the ML sound compare to Maggies? I have heard the 3.6s and 1.6s (with a clear nod to the 3.6s), but the Maggies seem to be physically overwhelming to me, and with the 3.6s at 24" width, I would not have much side-to-side flexibility to position them in my 13'3" wide room, with all the other stuff taking up width as well.
    BTW, I plan on powering my eventual setup with Odyssey Stratus amps (5 ch total). My room is approx 13x20x8.
    TIA
    Doug
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    "Today is a good day to die." ...Old Lodge Skins
    [Edited last by Doug_B on October 26, 2001 at 05:14 PM]
     
  2. Miles_W

    Miles_W Second Unit

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    Wow Doug that sure is a lot of questions... [​IMG]
    I have heard the Aeons, but only in a 2 channel setup and as surrounds with Ascents as the Fronts. I have not done a lengthy audition and I guarantee that the speakers I heard where not broken in. They are the replacement for the Aerius i and are a significantly better speaker than the scenario. The Woofer is important whether you are using a sub or not since in the Aerius i the crossover occurred at 450hz... You will not get deep bass out of Logans but in the latest incarnation, woofer panel intergration is greatly improved. I am assuming that you would be running the system across the 13" wall. You need at least 2 ft behind the panel inorder to get the best performance. Dispersion I cannot comment on, what I can say is I am happy with the performace of the logans in either 2 channel or HT. I am not familiar with the Odyssey Stratos so I cannot comment on it, how are the specs on it. The Theater is a better match for the larger Logans, Ascents, Odysseys, and Prodigies going slightly lower. the Cinema was designed originally to match with the smaller logans (Script, Scenario ,Aerius / Aeon, Ascent/SL3) Your room is probably big enough to accomodate either Ascents or Aeons as mains... I would skip the Scenario unless it is for surround duty. WRT the comparision with Maggies, hummmm a very personal thing, maggie owners will like maggies Logan owners, logans. I have heard the Maggies and for me I prefer the Logans...
    Good luck in you search! Either way I think you would be happy!
    Miles
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    Miles
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    DarkSide Member since(93)
     
  3. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    In the past couple years I've been giving ML's a lot of thought for my next upgrade. I've listened to a few but I can't comment on too many of your questions. One thing though is I found the sound to be surprisingly consistent as I walked around the room. I expected them to have a narrow sweet spot, but found that it was in fact quite good. I'm going to be very jealous of you when you get these.
     
  4. Miles_W

    Miles_W Second Unit

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    Opps Doug, I missed the bit with the Scripts... My only comment is only buy these if you have totally run out of money [​IMG] I am not keen at all on the Scenarios or Scripts. I have been told, and I mean no offense to any one owning Scenarios and Scripts... that they were designed to be easier to drive and to have more managable impedance curves so people running receivers could use logans. They are in a different class from the other Logans, I would consider used Aerius at the same price point...
    Miles
    ps. I am running CLS IIz's, A logos and Aerius for surrounds...
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    Miles
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  5. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

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    quote: The Woofer is important whether you are using a sub or not since in the Aerius i the crossover occurred at 450hz... You will not get deep bass out of Logans but in the latest incarnation, woofer panel intergration is greatly improved. [/quote]
    Understood about the crossover. I was wondering more about extension down low. The better integration between woof and panel would appear to be the most important statement here.
    quote: I am not familiar with the Odyssey Stratos so I cannot comment on it, how are the specs on it.[/quote]
    150wpc at 8ohms, high current (45 amps). I've read nothing but raves on the Stratos, so I'm salivating waiting for these bad boys.
    quote: I'm going to be very jealous of you when you get these.[/quote]
    Hold on there cowboy. I haven't even listened to them yet, much less the fact that I've been playing *musical chairs* with my speaker choices for months.
    quote: I am not keen at all on the Scenarios or Scripts.
    {snip}
    They are in a different class from the other Logans, I would consider used Aerius at the same price point..[/quote]
    There may be some physical room constraints at work with my surrounds. Wall mounting is definitely preferable to floorstanding, although I'd even have to look hard at the Scripts from a depth perspective and somewhat from a height perspective. I may be able to do floorstanders if I put them close to the back wall.
    If there are compromises with using Scripts as surrounds or a better ML pair close to the back corners of the room, does it really matter that much given that they're surrounds? For that matter, could I get away with another brand of speaker for surrounds, as even the cost of the Scripts are more than I'd *like* to spend on surrounds?
    Thanks.
    Doug
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    "Today is a good day to die." ...Old Lodge Skins
    [Edited last by Doug_B on October 26, 2001 at 10:51 PM]
     
  6. LarrySkelly

    LarrySkelly Stunt Coordinator

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    Is two-channel sound important to you? If its as important as HT then you should consider buying the Ascents in the front, an ML center, and something a bit more cost-effective in the rear, if you need to. Me, I wouldn't compromise on the fronts.
    As Miles says they need to be anywhere from 2-3 feet out from your front wall to get proper bass. If you put a RPTV in between them then they need to be at least a couple of inches in front of the screen anyways, so the positioning is not an issue.
    I'm running reQuests in the front and I have no complaints with the bass, they also have the 10" woofer, and the panel crosses over at 200 hz. I also have a pair of SVS 16-46's, and I often prefer to turn the subs off for audio, the bass is not an issue. [However don't take that as a complaint about the musicality or quickness of the subs, they're excellent.]
    I'm using a pair of B&W's in the rear. I really don't think it matters too much what you run in the rear. To be honest other than the Avia test sweep, I've never heard a soundtrack where timbre matching between front and rear would be important.
    I'd like to give the Aeons a good listen when I get a chance. I was with Miles at the Toronto CES show last weekend. Neither pair we heard were set up for proper listening, and they were likely both brand new. My Logans took a couple hundred hours to break in properly. Until then they sound completely different. So make sure you know how many hours are on the speakers you hear.
    Good luck.
    Larry
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    Upgrading: 'What if this is as good as it gets?'
     
  7. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

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  8. Miles_W

    Miles_W Second Unit

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    Doug,
    If you think that you are going to listen to 50% or more music it is very important that you audition in your room. Your room is almost a tweener size... Perhaps too big for the Aeon to fill, perhaps to small for the Ascents to sing. Do you have a dealer who will let you demo them at home? Bear in mind what Larry said, speakers that the store lends you to demo may not be broken in... ( especially Aeons). The difference in stated extension is 43hz for the Aeon, and 35 for the Ascent, your SVS Ultra will round out the bottom end nicely!
    Does your pre-pro/receiver support side surrounds. I have my aerius at the side.
    Larry suggestion of going L/C/R to start is a very good idea you can always add the logan surrounds when funds permit. Give them a good long audition, I have had logans since 93 ( Hence the signature [​IMG] ) I find it difficult to switch speakers...
    Miles
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    Miles
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  9. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

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    quote: Perhaps too big for the Aeon to fill, perhaps to small for the Ascents to sing.[/quote]
    I would be dismayed if the Aeons were not sufficient for my size room, as I'd prefer any savings in width I can get with my mains, not to mention the $1K retail difference.
    quote: Do you have a dealer who will let you demo them at home? Bear in mind what Larry said, speakers that the store lends you to demo may not be broken in... ( especially Aeons).[/quote]
    During my numerous months of auditioning, I am finding that the dealers here in Jersey are generally not supportive of home demos. My room is not expected to be ready for an audition until late November/December anyway, so the rubber has not met the road yet. However, with the 2 other speakers I am currently considering, one dealer has agreed to support the home demo and the other still has to talk with the manager once the time approaches. MLs are supported by only a couple of dealers in NJ. I have found that I have a better chance at getting a home demo when I've gained the trust of a dealer over several visits, but I have yet to go to the dealer that has many of the ML lines (I may go today). I have a feeling that this dealer, Harvey Electronics, would not be inclined to support home demos, and the MLs may be tougher than other speakers, due to size and potential fragility. We'll see. I may be able to do more visits in a short time frame given that my office is not far from them. I have to be prepared to walk away if they don't want my business enough to accommodate me. I will, however, be as geographically expansive as possibe wrt ML dealers, but I already know that another dealer in Jersey (out of 3 total in the state, I believe), only has the Prodigy and the Ascent.
    quote: Does your pre-pro/receiver support side surrounds. I have my aerius at the side.
    Larry suggestion of going L/C/R to start is a very good idea you can always add the logan surrounds when funds permit.[/quote]
    I don't have any equipment yet other than my DVD player and TV that will remain in the system. I am expecting to get the Outlaw 950, which is now the critical path item in my schedule.
    Although 2 ch music may be > 50% for me, I really would like to have a 5.1 setup as soon as possible. I'd be willing to wait a month or so after getting the L/C/R speakers for surrounds, but not longer. I'd like to keep to a certain budget for the 5 channels (given I've raised it so much in the last 6-9 months already) so I can consider a display upgrade sooner rather than later.
    Thanks again.
    Doug
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    "Today is a good day to die." ...Old Lodge Skins
    [Edited last by Doug_B on October 27, 2001 at 10:24 AM]
     
  10. Herb Kane

    Herb Kane Screenwriter

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    Hi Doug:
    Some encouragement, I hope. Several months ago, I upgraded from Aerius i's to Ascents for my mains. My main priority was to widen my soundstage. I think I was rather successful.... I am extremely happy with the Ascents and they are a nice improvement over the Aerius i's. As for space, our rooms are somewhat similar. Mine is 14X24. My screen is 100", so if you do the math, that only leaves about 2.5 feet on either side of the screen which is plenty. And, I have them approximately 2 feet out from the rear wall as well. So depending on your screen size, anything less than 100" and you should be fine. As for the Aeons, I have heard them but haven't spent much time with them. If it is a matter of budget, I do believe they would certainly be adequate, given your room size. Spend as much as you can on the mains, especially if you're listening to a lot of 2 channel stuff. The surrounds are much less crucial.
    As for the surrounds, I was fortunate to be able to move the Aerius i's to the rear and move my Scripts from rear duty to the sides. Obviously, if you were able to go matched with a rear set as well, that would be optimum. However, the Scripts will more than adequate for surround duty given the limited info actually sent there. Personally, one could say I have overkill with the two Aerius i's at the rear and two Scripts for the side, but it does sound great and I am very happy with it.
    As for the center channel, I am just using the Cinema presently. I haven't had a chance to listen to the new Theater yet, but the Cinema is very capable.
    I cannot stress enough about Larry & Miles suggestion of home demoing the speakers. I was able to bring them home for a 3 or 4 day period, and simply wouldn't buy them unless I was afforded that opportunity.
    Having said that, they will indeed sound flat prior to their break in. But, it should give you some idea of what they are capable of. I added new cables as well when I purchased mine, and it was a good three months before I noticed a huge difference. Albeit, it seemd like a very sudden one.
    Now, how many questions have we missed.....?
    Herb.
     
  11. Doug_B

    Doug_B Screenwriter

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    Just came back from some ML auditioning, and I must say I'm actually less than impressed. First, the Aeon audition could be discounted because 1) they were not broken in (probably less than 24 hrs of use) and 2) they had them set up in the main room of the store, way too big an area. My perception of their highs was too overwhelming, what I would call brittle at times. The mids sounded fine, but the low end was very lacking. The lack of break-in could be the cause for the harsh, brittle highs, and I'm sure the cave of a room very much impacted bass response. Due to the break-in issue, I didn't bother to have them move the speakers.
    Listened to the Ascents as well and wasn't overly thrilled. The highs were definitely not brittle, but maybe not crisp enough (although this could have been an effect of listening to the Aeons just before it). However, I was most disappointed with the mids. They didn't make themselves known to me enough; they got lost. Actually, the Cinema center and Script surrounds sounded OK to me for their main purposes, although I didn't audition them much. To each his own.
    OTOH, There was a silver lining. I took this visit to listen to some Vienna Acoustics for the first time and was pleased with the sound of the Beethovens. I plan on going back (or should I say bach [​IMG] ) to listen to them further along with a center and the Haydns for surrounds.
    On the home demo front, I don't know if this place would support it; I didn't grill them on it (and won't unless I'm interested in a speaker and visit them a couple of times). They do have a 7 day return policy, but I question such value with new, non-broken-in speakers (and the dealer admits that speaker room dependencies exist).
    Thus, I don't think I will be pursuing MLs any more, but I do thank all of you for your info and POVs.
    BTW, in the "contest" of Maggies vs MLs, the 3.6s have it hands down IMHO. YMMV.
    Doug
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    "Today is a good day to die." ...Old Lodge Skins
     
  12. Miles_W

    Miles_W Second Unit

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    Doug,
    sorry to hear that they didn't work out for you. I have heard good things about the Vienna accoustics... Good luck with your search!!!
    Miles
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    Miles
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  13. Dave Dahl

    Dave Dahl Stunt Coordinator

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    I have worked both with the Martin Logan line and the VA line. I believe that the ML have better imaging while the VA speakers provide a warmer sound. If push came to shove I would probably spend a small fortune on the Prodigy's
    -Dave
     

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