Onkyo's power ratings???

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Greg Kolinski, Oct 26, 2002.

  1. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

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    I'm new around here,and recently upgraded to an Onkyo TXSR-600.I keep seeing references to Onkyo's power ratings all over the message board. Is ther some kind of severe problem????
     
  2. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

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    Not just with Onkyos, but with quite a few equipment manufacturers. The problem is that, when a company advertises, let's say, 100 watts per channel X's 5, it can be very misleading to the average consumer. I had the Onkyo 696 (now 700), which was rated at 100 watts X's 5. In reality, when tested with all five channels driven simultaneously, it came out to something like 46 watts/channel. Does this mean you have a receiver that won't deliver the power you need for your listening uses? Not necessarily. That depends on factors such as room size, listening habits, and the efficiency of your speakers. Nonetheless, it could possibly affect things such as your headroom and possibly even result in clipping. I think you're probably fine though, so long as you don't blast your ears out. The way I look at it, the speaker's sensitivity rating is more important than the receiver's power output. I can't remember exactly, but to double the loudness, you have to multiply the watts by a factor of 10. In other words, to double the perceivable loudness of an amp that put out 50 watts/channel, you'd have to have an amp rated at 500 watts/channel. If your receiver is rated at 80 watts/channel X's 5 and only put out 40 watts/channel with all 5 being driven simultaneously, then the difference would be 3 spl's. This is all from my feeble memory though and I could be wrong. Let us know how big your listening room is and what the sensitivity ratings are for your speakers and we can help you out more.
    Here's a list of some receivers, their rated power, and what they actually tested at:
    click here
    Here's a calculater to determine the SPL's your system will put out given your receiver and speakers.
    click here
     
  3. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

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    OK,,I see what you mean,I keep seeing all this stuff I should have checked into before I bought.[​IMG] My front speakers are Acoustic Research TSW-510 from the early 90's,rated @ 4ohms,which some people say is not good .[​IMG] It's hard for me to understand that a problem will occur with my running decent Acoustic Research speakers due to low ohmage and a decent Onkyo receiver.Im just getting into the actual "home theatre "part of this hobby,and how it all works ,besides turning on the TV,and receiver.[​IMG]
     
  4. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

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    Yeah, I know just where you're coming from. When I first started HT, I obsessed with everything I read too much, and spent too little time enjoying and appreciating what I had. Your speakers should be fine, as long as you don't over drive them. I've learned a lot from the good people on this and other boards and I'm sure you will too. [​IMG]
     
  5. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

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    Thanks Dana[​IMG] , so I probobly need to quit worrying about it.I spazed even more this evening ,when it was noted in another forum that on the rear of my receiver it state "6 ohm minimum" on the speaker hook-ups[​IMG] .So as long as I'm not blasting close to full volume ,Im not going to cook this reciever???Or do I need to take it back and get something thats not going to get killed by my speakers???
    A more confuse
    Greg[​IMG]
     
  6. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

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    Again, I think your receiver would work, but I'm not the expert. A lot of folks around here are electrical engineers and I'm sure they could provide a better answer. I think that ohm loads from speakers are pretty much constantly changing and that your Onkyo must handle at least 4 ohms of dynamic demand, but I'm not positive as to whether it would be recommended for it to handle constant low ohm demands. I'm hoping one of those in the know will help out here. But, if you can exchange it at no cost for a receiver rated to handle 4 ohms, you might want to check that possibility out. Although, I like Onkyos and have owned two, there are many other fine receivers out there. If you end up keeping it though, I'd be very careful not to drive it too hard as less resistance might place too much of a demand on your receiver and overload it. Again, this is just my sophomoric understanding of the situation, but I could be wrong. For that reason, I'm calling for
    a little expert help here please. because I wouldn't want to steer you wrong. [​IMG]
    I'm back. I just went over to the HTF primer for and here's the post I found on ohms.
    What’s an Ohm?
    The ohm is the unit of measure for impedance, or electrical resistance. What does this have to do with your home theater? It affects how much power your amplifier produces. Power = voltage^2/resistance. Anything that is fed an electrical signal provides resistance. The higher the number in ohms the higher the resistance. Many loudspeakers are rated at 8 ohms. This rating is usually listed as “nominal” because resistance changes over the frequency range. It is usually not too high resistance that we have to worry about, but too low resistance. Say you have an amp that will produce 25 watts (power) into 8 ohms. If you show the amplifier a 4 ohm load, you decrease resistance and increase power because any given number will be larger when divided by a smaller number (80/8 < 80/4). As the resistance decreases and power will increase (a theoretically perfect amplifier would double in output) the current will also increase because Ohm’s law states that current = voltage/resistance (power = voltage^2/resistance). If the amp has the capability to produce this much current and dissipate the heat, you will be fine, but if not, you will over heat the amp and may ruin it or at the least trip the protection circuitry. You should always know the limits of your speakers and amplifier to avoid damage.
    I also looked up this article on it.
    click here for more info on ohms
    Hope this helps you out some.
     
  7. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    One thing.........

    Onkyo has great customer service for technical questions. Call them and ask about your setup. I had a 595 and loved it. They recommended that I keep the receiver setting to 8 Ohms even though I had 6 Ohm speakers.

    In the mean time - hook it up and listen - you won't fry it.

    Mike
     
  8. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

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    thanks everybody...... called Onkyo.....the help desk line guy said the receiver will not work with those 4 ohm speaker[​IMG] GREAT.......it seems to work fine to me[​IMG] Im about to do a search for a new receiver ,since replacing the speakers is not an option,the M&K center cost almost as much as the Onkyo.Any body have any tips as to what receivers in that price and /performance level I could look at?
    thanks
    Greg K
     
  9. Jay Sylvester

    Jay Sylvester Supporting Actor

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    Which M&K's are you using, one of the THX setups? If you're spending that much on your speakers, you should really consider spending more money on your amplification. Seems way out of balance to me. I liked my Onkyo 797 when I had it paired with my Polks, but it's certainly not worthy of M&K's. Getting something in that price range is going to be tough.
     
  10. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] Jay........Yeah, a litlle overkill on the center,even worse when I had a JVC[​IMG] M&K 750 THX center only,for lft and rt front I am using a pair of older Acoustic Research TSW-510 from early 90's,I think they are really nice even for the age,back when speakers still kinda looked like furniture[​IMG] .Anyway Im off to the store to trade the Onkyo for Harmon Kardon 520.
     
  11. Brandon_M_S

    Brandon_M_S Agent

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  12. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

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    Well problem solved,had only had the Onkyo for 2-3 weeks ,so I took it back and got a Harman Kardan AVR520,and they say there is no prob with low ohmage speakers.
    thanks for the help everybody[​IMG]
    greg
    now I can obsess over this one[​IMG]
     
  13. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    Gregg:

    Take it back again and get the 525. It's out. The 520 is great but if you can go the additional bucks the 525 should be great too.

    Mike
     
  14. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

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    Exactly what is different on the 525??? just the 6.1 Dolby??and some other little stuff?
     
  15. Alex Prosak

    Alex Prosak Supporting Actor

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    The 525 has seven channels of amplification vs six and it has a surround processor with all the current modes (DTS-ES, DD-EX), except THX. Probably some other things too but I'm not too familiar with it.
     
  16. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

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    HMMM,Oh well,Im pretty much done[​IMG] the 520 seems to work just fine,and I went a bit outa what I planned to spend .[​IMG] Getting the 525 would probobly cost another 150-200.In the future,for 6.-7.1 I will need to buy an add on amp, and the 520 has the programing,just no output??correct?[​IMG]
    Greg
     
  17. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

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    I'm very happy you ended up with the 520. It's definitely a step or two above the Onkyo you originally purchased. A great receiver!!!
     
  18. KyleS

    KyleS Screenwriter

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    Also dont forget that usually the 600 & 700 series in Onkyos line especially the Integra can be run as a pre and then you can buy some good amplification for those M&K speakers.

    KyleS
     

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