Onkyo vs. Denon, one more time

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Adam_Reiter, Oct 17, 2001.

  1. Adam_Reiter

    Adam_Reiter Second Unit

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    Okay guys. I think I am almost done assembling the list of equipment I will go after. February is when I get my massive play money to finish the list. I will start buying bits and pieces in November starting with nOrh Multiamps from a guy on HD.
    However, I need your help (again) deciding on a new list of recievers to get for my HT. Here are the 3 new recievers I am deciding upon.
    Denon 4802 125w/Channel
    Denon 3802 110w/Channel
    Onkyo 898 110w/Channel
    As far as I can see, they all have DPL2, DTS, THX EX. I have a hookup in Colorado to get the Denon's at COST.
    Price for the 4802 is $1542 no tax
    Price for the 3802 is $625 no tax
    I have seen the Onkyo listed at CC for $999
    Is there that much difference between the 4802 and the 3802 to warrant $900??!!
    Now, before you decide, let me get you the list of equipment that I should have by March 2002 (considering I get to by everything I want)
    Sony 36" XBR450 TV
    Pioneer DV-444 DVD Player
    Onkyo or Denon HT Reciever
    nOrh ACA
    nOrh CD-1
    nOrh Multiamp x2
    nOrh 9.0 Marble x2
    nOrh 4.0 Marble x5
    SVS Ultra Subwoofer x2
    Crown K-1 amp for SVS Subs
    Symetrix 551E Equalizer for SVS Subs
    I am still deciding on DIY "Fat One" IC's or HomeGrown's "Silver Lace" IC's. I think I will only spend the extra money on IC's and speaker cables for the 2ch setup. As for the rest of the HT and the reciever, I will just use my standard leftover Monster cable stuff that I allready have.
    My question is, which reciever (taking in account of the prices) is going to give me what I need? I need a kick ass HT reciever that has all the latest and greatest and will have atleast enought power to drive my nOrh 4.0's to within ear bleeding HT levels. My plan is to have the reciever's speaker wire outs for the 9.0's go in the high pass inputs of the Multiamp and the ACA preouts to the low pass input of the multiamps. This way I can keep my 2ch system seperate from my HT system.
    I have an addition question as well.
    Is there ANY way for me to someone use the SVS subs for the HT and the 2ch? Maybe with the use of some sort of switch or something? I really want to use them for both.
    Boy, if I am able to get EVERYTHING on that list..... that will be some system. Can't wait!!! I am salivating......
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    Adam Reiter
    Network Engineer
    San Diego, CA
     
  2. Eric Stuckey

    Eric Stuckey Second Unit

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    Adam,
    First , Go with the Denon 3802.
    Secound, I think it is safe to say that if your getting the 3802 for $700 your getting it from a NON- Denon dealer!
    Unless they give ya a great warenty I'd be carfull buying it from them.Crutchfild , one of the reliable net places to sell it on the web sells it for $1199. Just becarefull on the warenty.I have the 3802 and Love it.
    ------------------
    I love to chat about dvd & HT , feel free to yahoo me.YAHOO messenger: billsfan71
    " Master Yoda said I should be mindfull of the future." Obi-Won Kenobie
     
  3. Adam_Reiter

    Adam_Reiter Second Unit

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    No, trust me. Its all good. I have a friend that works at a HUGE audio/video chain in Colorado. He works off commision. He sells equipment to his buddies at the cost of the store. As in, his buddies get awesome deals on gear, he makes NO commision off of the sales, but he gets awarded for his efforts from the people he hooked up. Its the same deal as if I went and paid $1100 for it, only I paid $600. Kinda like "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours".
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    Adam Reiter
    Network Engineer
    San Diego, CA
     
  4. Kevin Yu

    Kevin Yu Auditioning

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    BTW, 3802 is not THX certified.
    K.
     
  5. Shanthi

    Shanthi Stunt Coordinator

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    First I would go with Denon and the question comes to 4802 or 3802. If you do not care for THX cetification the it's obivous you go with 3802. IMHO I would go with 3802.
    My 2 cents....
     
  6. Adam_Reiter

    Adam_Reiter Second Unit

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    Maybe my question to you guys should be, Is it worth spending an extra $900 for me to go from the 3802 to the 4802?
    Is the 15w/channel more and the THX cert worth the extra $900. It is not looking to be so. Opinons?
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    Adam Reiter
    Network Engineer
    San Diego, CA
     
  7. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    I wouldn't want THX processing mucking up the works, but the DTS 24 bit/96 kHz decoding on the 4802 does look interesting.
    Is it going to be worth the extra money, I don't know.
    If THX and DTS 24/96 doesn't interest you then by all means get the 3802 and start adding more powerful outboard amps to it. You'd probably get better performance than a 4802 using its built in amps and the benefit of no forced THX post-processing for ES/EX encoded movies.
    The 3802 still has PL II and DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 and THX Cinema re-EQ that you can turn on or off. Something you can't do with THX engaged on the 4802 (that I'm aware of) as it forces it on-- even when many new DVDs are already EQ'd for the home.
    Dan
     
  8. Mark F Hall

    Mark F Hall Agent

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    I opted for the 4802 because the amplifier section is based on the same architecture as the 5800 and it has a lot of digital inputs (8). It also has a pure direct mode for audio that shuts down all video circuits and displays to eliminate any interference with the audio. Tested side by side with the same speakers the 4802 sounded much better than the 3802 hands down
    IMHO.
    Is it worth $900 more? Absolutely
    Mark
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  9. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    Thank you Mark, for a reply that actually addresses SOUND QUALITY. I have been trying to find info about the Denon 3801 and EVERYTHING I read is about how it has 7 ch of amp and DTS_ES and this and that and blah blah blah... Doesn't anyone care about sound quality anymore???!!!
    --
    Holadem - you wouldn't happen to know how it sounds compared to the Onyo787 by any chance right? [​IMG]
     
  10. Charles M

    Charles M Stunt Coordinator

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    Adam,
    Hello neighbor. If you could drop me an email at [email protected], I would like to find out how I too can get a 3802 for $625 if it is possible. I'm here in San Diego also . Thanks, Charles
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    The only dumb question is the one you never ask....
     
  11. John Gates

    John Gates Second Unit

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    Guys,
    Adam is going to use a nOrh ACA as the 2-channel music pre, and some outboard amps for his mains, so the sound of the unit for music is not that important in this case. The question should be whether the higher end Denon is $900 better than the 3801 for HT, and if so, by what margin?
    Adam, since you are getting outboard amps for your mains anyway, I would take:
    Denon 3802 for excellent sound or...
    Outlaw 950 pre/pro ($899) with 5 Le Amps ($1200) or maybe the Outlaw 750 5-channel amp, and you'd have something truly awesome.
    Enjoy the hunt,
    John
     
  12. Adam_Reiter

    Adam_Reiter Second Unit

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    For Charles. The only reason I can get the Denon's for so cheap, is I have a friend back in CO who "hooks us up". As in, we works for a A/V chain and sells it to us at store cost. Wholesale, basicly.
    Since my 2 channel is pretty much covered, I really think I need a reciever for the other 5 speakers for HT. Where else am I going to get DPL2, DTS, THX EX, AND 110/125w/channel for Home Theater?? All for only either $650 or $1500.
    Not to mention, even IF I did get a PREAMP that did the dts, dpl2, etc.... and then went with an addition 5 Leamps(in which I will allready be going with 4 LeAmps for the 9.0's, where would I plug all this crap into??? God, I have such a monumental rats nest of wires, and power cords, and not to mention space! If I was going to spend so much on that, hell, I think I'd rather get the Denon 5800, have all that kewl THX processing and stuff, and have PLENTY of power for the rest of the HT.
    ------------------
    Adam Reiter
    Network Engineer
    San Diego, CA
     
  13. Chris Maynard

    Chris Maynard Supporting Actor

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    Dan - I do not believe you are forced to use THX post processing for DTS ES or Dolby EX.
    I know I have the choice on the 5800. Also I think that you do not realize the benefit especially on older (3 years or greater in general) sound mixes. It was not invented just to "gum up the works". It can take harsh soundtracks and smooth them out and make them very pleasing for the home theater experience.
    [Edited last by Chris Maynard on October 20, 2001 at 10:38 AM]
     
  14. John Gates

    John Gates Second Unit

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    **********************
    Adam Said:
    Not to mention, even IF I did get a PREAMP that did the dts, dpl2, etc.... and then went with an addition 5 Leamps(in which I will allready be going with 4 LeAmps for the 9.0's, where would I plug all this crap into??? God, I have such a monumental rats nest of wires, and power cords, and not to mention space!
    **********************
    LOL!! I hear you! A few of us here have actually installed dedicated circuits for our Home Theaters. How anal is that? ;-)
    Well, given that you don't want separates right now beyond what you're already getting, I would go with the 3802. I have not directly compared it for HT with the more senior Denon models, so that's something you can do. I have heard the 3801, however, on several occasions, and it is a very impressive unit. YOu might *consider* one extra Le Amp to drive your center channel, but even if you don't do this, it'll still take your breath away.
    3802 owners: Can you drive 5 speakers with 87 DB sensitivity to reference levels without significant distortion on the 3802?
    John
     
  15. Shanthi

    Shanthi Stunt Coordinator

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    John,
    I think so my speaker are 88db sensitivity and I drove 5 speaker for a while before I bought a outbound amp. The amp gave a very good sound stage for the level I hear music and less distoration at ref level.
     
  16. David_Schiller

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    I didn't like the 4802's remote, and also the fact that it's not upgradable. I decided to spend a bit more money and buy the Onkyo 989. It's THX Ultra certified, has DPLII, and is upgradable. Plus you can operate the remote with only one hand (imagine that). The extra money you spend now might save you from wanting to upgrade again a few years from now.
     
  17. Brandon B

    Brandon B Second Unit

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    One more point between the 3802 and 4802, the latter lets you pick from several more (lower) sub XO points.
    I was looking at buying a 4802, but then changed my mind and bought an ACA and was then getting a 3802. Then I read about the bass management of the oulaw 950, and am now going to pair that with the ACA (I already have amps covered). This may be more important to me than you however, as my mains will be truly flat down to 30 (including my center) with biamped bass, so I really want to cross them at 60, vs. 100 or 120 for my surrounds.
    If you really want to integrate your subs with two channel when you use the ACA instead of your HT processor, however, you may not care about the bass mgmt of the receiver, and you might be OK with the 3802 and getting something like Outlaw's ICBM.
    BB
     

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