Onkyo DS595 Crossover Question

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Nick G, Sep 5, 2001.

  1. Nick G

    Nick G Stunt Coordinator

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    I can not find this information in my manual, perhaps someone here can help me out.
    1. Is the crossover set at 80Hz?
    2. If the crossover is 80 Hz and I set my main speakers to small, does the sub get sent only information below 80Hz so I turn should off my subs internal crossover (HSU VTF2)? Or does the sub still get all informatioin and I need to set the subs crossover to 80Hz manually?
    You would think this information would be in the manual, but I will be darned if I can find it. TIA
    Regards, Nick
     
  2. Vietor

    Vietor Stunt Coordinator

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    Yes it is at 80Hz.
    I am pretty sure that it sends only
     
  3. Vin

    Vin Supporting Actor

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    Speakers set to large will receive all of the frequency range as encoded for those channels....the subwoofer (when set to ON) will receive the LFE track regardless of whether your speakers are set to small or large.
    If you set your speakers to small the receiver's crossover will send any info below this point (usually 80-100Hz, depending on the receiver) to the sub in addition to the LFE track. In this case you'll want to bypass your subs crossover if it has one....if it doesn't have a bypass, adjust it to it's highest setting.
    Hope this helps.
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  4. JamesMartin

    JamesMartin Extra

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    I have a question also. I have the TX-DS595 and a set of Klipsch Quintets with KSW-10 sub. Right now I have the speakers set to small and my sub is connected to the sub output. So basically my speakers are getting 80hz and above and my sub has a crossover (which cannot bet turned off) that can be adjusted from 120hz and lower. So basically I have a "hole" in my system from 120-80hz right?
    Would it be better to set my speakers to large. I am not for sure but I think my speakers have internal crossovers that are at 120hz.
    Thanks,
    James
     
  5. Vin

    Vin Supporting Actor

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    If you adjust the crossover on your sub to it's highest setting (in your case, 120Hz) there won't be a hole in your system.
    Here's why: any speakers set to small will have the deep bass for those channels routed to the sub. In other words, anything below 80Hz (in the case of your Onkyo 595) will be played back by the sub in addition to the LFE track (the .1 part of 5.1). Your speakers that are set to small will playback everything above 80Hz as encoded for those channels.
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  6. Jeremy Anderson

    Jeremy Anderson Screenwriter

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    The 595's crossover is 80hz with a 12db/octave slope (see the explanation of that below). You need to set all speakers to small, and if your sub doesn't have a FILTERED INPUT (meaning it bypasses the crossover on the sub), you need to turn your sub's crossover as high as it will go. If you set all speakers to large, then they each reproduce the full range of sound (20hz-20khz) and the sub only reproduces the LFE channel. Normally, if you set mains to large and center/surrounds to small, bass from center/surrounds will be redirected to the mains or to both the mains and sub (depending on the receiver). In any case, LFE is always sent to the sub.
    Something to remember: an 80hz crossover is not a brick wall. It isn't like your speakers handle everything from 80 up and your sub from 80 down. When I said 12db/octave slope, here is a basic explanation: 80hz is the point where your speakers and sub are producing that signal in roughly equal amounts. At one octave lower, the sub is handling 12db more than the speakers. At one octave higher, the speakers are handling 12db more than the sub. At two octaves lower, the sub handles 24db more, and so on.
    This gradual crossing of frequencies gives a nice smooth transition between the speakers and sub, as well as maintaining localization of upper bass frequencies from each individual speaker. It also frees up more potential power from your receiver because it isn't having to reproduce extremely low frequencies. Because you are depending on both your sub and speakers to reproduce frequencies in the crossover range, it is important that the subwoofer is in phase with your speakers. If the phase of your sub is the opposite from your speakers, frequencies in the crossover range will be cancelled out, making your sub sound overly boomy (because you're turning the sub level higher than it needs to be to compensate).
    PHASE is represented by either a 0 degree-180 degree switch, or on some subwoofers as a dial from 0-180. For MOST applications, the sub should be set at 0 degrees, meaning basically that the sub cone is pushing out at the same time as the cone on the speaker. However, it is possible to place a subwoofer in a location where reflections and room acoustics invert the wave. In such instances, relocating the sub or setting the phase to 180 degrees (meaning basically that the sub pulls in when the speaker pushes out) will bring frequencies in the crossover range back to proper levels.
    It is important to always check phase before calibrating the level of the subwoofer. Calibration discs such as Avia, Video Essentials, etc. have tests to clearly indicate if you have a phase problem. An alternative is to run a frequency sweep in the crossover range and see which phase setting produces the highest level at the crossover frequency.
    Hope this all helps!
     
  7. Nick G

    Nick G Stunt Coordinator

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    Jeremy & Vin
    Thank you for the lucid explanation of bass and cross over, I think I have a handle on it now.
    Regards, Nick
     
  8. Darren K Price

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    Ok, this explained how things work for home theater. Since I have my mains set to large and the center/surround set to small I should set my subs crossover as high as possible around 120Hz so that there are no holes in the system, correct? Now what about music playback in this configuration? Having the subs crossover set as high as it will go will bleed some of the music into it. Correct, or am I making a simple subject hard?
     
  9. Jeremy Anderson

    Jeremy Anderson Screenwriter

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    If your mains are set to large, normally it won't try to redirect bass to the sub for either music or HT -- it will redirect bass for the speakers to the mains. However, some receivers send bass to both mains and sub in this configuration (or give you the option). And again, some receivers also redirect bass to the sub no matter what your mains are set to. It just depends on the receiver.
    Are your mains capable of full 20hz-20khz? If not, you might want to try them on small instead so you don't miss any low end in those channels. Very few speakers are up to the task when it comes to the large setting. Also, the ratings can be misleading. For instance, my Polk R10 bookshelf speakers are rated at 55hz-22khz... however, on closer inspection, the frequency at which the speaker drops by over 3db is 63hz.
     
  10. Darren K Price

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    Thanks for the info and nice web site. Very interesting and cool.
    [Edited last by Darren K Price on September 06, 2001 at 02:42 PM]
     
  11. Darren K Price

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    Thanks for the info Jeremy. Also, nice website. Very interesting and cool.
     
  12. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

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    This discussion prompted me to experiment with my 595 last night and I found something interesting.
    I've always run all my speakers small, so I never noticed this before. I set subwoofer = yes and front speakers = large. Then I listened to music in the "stereo" setting. And surprise, surprise - my subwoofer was still playing! So then I set subwoofer = yes and ALL speakers = large. The subwoofer STILL played in "stereo" mode! It must be sending the bass to BOTH the subwoofer and the main speakers.
    Apparently if you don't want your subwoofer playing you have to tell your 595 that subwoofer = no or you have to listen in "direct" mode.
    Just FYI
     
  13. Nick G

    Nick G Stunt Coordinator

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    Ryan, from my perspective, being able to have your sub active when the speakers are set to large is the way it should be. It gives you the choice. My Paradigm Studio 20s are good down to 45Hz or so. For music I have them set to large, and the cross over on the sub(HSU VTF2) about at about 45Hz. Sounds great. I tried setting the speakers to small and manually setting the sub crossover to 80Hz (though I now know the receiver was internally already changeing the cross over for me), but it did not sound anywhere near as good as the keeping the mains large with the lower cross over for the sub. I suspect how you set up the sub/main/crossover settings depends on what mains you have and whether or not you are using it for music or HT.
    Regards, Nick
     
  14. Ryan Schnacke

    Ryan Schnacke Supporting Actor

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    Agreed. I view this as a feature. When I want to listen without the sub, I switch to "direct" mode.
     

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