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Onkyo bass management issue

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ali Yegulalp, Nov 11, 2001.

  1. Ali Yegulalp

    Ali Yegulalp Auditioning

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    I always thought that setting the fronts to "large" on the receiver would remove any crossover to the sub, but it seems that this is not true! I have an Onkyo DTR-7, full range front speakers and a sub. No matter whether I set the fronts to "small" or "large", the low frequencies are crossed over to the sub. This in stereo mode, where the center and surrounds are turned off. The fronts can only get the full range signal if I tell the receiver that there is no sub.
    Is this normal, or is there something wrong with my receiver bass management? I was hoping somebody else who has the DTR-7 or 777 could do a quick check with their receiver.
     
  2. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Interesting. So the fronts DO NOT get full range when set to LARGE unless you set the SUB to NO?
    Are you sure the receiver isn't dividing the bass up in terms of level? Or is the receiver rolling off the bass that goes to the fronts? Is there a BOTH setting?
     
  3. Nick G

    Nick G Stunt Coordinator

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    I am not familiar with your particular Onkyo, but with my Onkyo 595 when the mains are set to "small" the receiver sends to the sub LFEs (which can be as high as 120Hz), plus all other data less than 80Hz (not a brick wall, I know). With mains set to "large", the sub gets full range (including LFEs). The mains get full range too, but no LFEs. I am not being a smart aleck, but are you really positive the mains are not getting full range with the sub set to "yes" and the mains "large"? Did you use some sort of tone generator or a test disk like AVIA?
    Nick
     
  4. Vietor

    Vietor Stunt Coordinator

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    I too have a 595, and my understanding is as follows (just tested with a tone generator and going off what I heard and think I remember reading somewhere).
    When the mains are set to small, things get crossed over at 80Hz in the usual manner. But with the mains set to large (and sub to 'yes') Either the signal is split between the sub and the mains, or what I suspect is that each gets the signal at -3 dB, thus if your system is properly calibrated, keeping the same relative bass level.
    This is all assuming of course a stereo input, and nothing else.
    If you want to listen to a stereo signal with nothing but the mains playing, then use 'direct' mode, thats what its ment for. . .
    Once again this is all relating only to stereo input.
     
  5. Ariel

    Ariel Stunt Coordinator

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    i have the onkyo575x and have the same observation as Ali.
    as long as the sub is set to "yes" (stereo mode), the front does not receive the full signal even when set to large.
     
  6. Jeremy Anderson

    Jeremy Anderson Screenwriter

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    Stereo mode on the Onkyos sends bass to the sub regardless of whether your mains are set to large or small. The only difference is that with large mains, it sends bass to both mains and sub instead of just to the sub. DIRECT mode should send full range to the mains only.
     
  7. Ali Yegulalp

    Ali Yegulalp Auditioning

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    I just took some measurements with test tones and confirmed the problem: when you tell the receiver that you have a sub, it makes NO DIFFERENCE whether you say the front speakers are "large" or "small". Either way, the 12 dB per octave low pass filter is applied to the fronts.
    The measurements were taken in stereo mode with the subwoofer physically disconnected, so I can see what the fronts are doing:
    32 Hz tone, receiver set to fronts=large and sub = no:
    80 dB SPL
    32 Hz tone, receiver set to fronts=large and sub = yes:
    64 dB SPL
    32 Hz tone, receiver set to fronts=small and sub = yes:
    64 dB SPL
    That's a 16 dB drop in the fronts when the receiver is set to sub=yes. A quick calculation shows that a 12 dB per octave high-pass set at 80 Hz should be down 15.4 dB at 32 Hz, which pretty much matches what I saw. The fronts are being high-passed whenever sub=yes, no matter if you set fronts=large or fronts=small.
    Does this make any sense? Why have a large/small setting for the fronts if it makes no difference?
     
  8. anthony_b

    anthony_b Screenwriter

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    I called Onkyo tech support in reference to this about two months ago when I bought my velo sub. He indicated that if you set your mains to large they will receive a full range signal in conjuction with the sub signals below 80hz (crossover point).
     
  9. Jeremy Anderson

    Jeremy Anderson Screenwriter

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    As I said before... this is not a problem or defect. It is simply how the STEREO mode works on the Onkyo. If you want to send full range to the mains with nothing sent to the subwoofer, you simply change to DIRECT mode instead.
     

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