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Once Upon a Time in Hollywood (2019)

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Bryan^H, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    Yeah, I understand how Lee's family, friends and even some fans would be unhappy but I don't think the scene's intent is to be a 100% accurate representation of Bruce Lee. It's in there to show that Cliff is a bad motherfucker (to pull from another QT movie) who can even take on a legendary tough guy.
     
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  2. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    I still say it was an unreliable narrator sequence since it was all from the point of view of Cliff as a memory.
     
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  3. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

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    Yes, absolutely and this pays off in the film...

    ...when Cliff easily dispatches the Manson family slobs that have come to kill him and Rick even though at that point Cliff is high as a kite from smoking his acid dipped cigarette.

    This is in part why I don't agree with Tony's unreliable narrator idea. The picture never sets up unreliable narrator stuff with how the story is told or the characters. I believe what we see in the scene with Bruce is shown to us so we know exactly what happened, exactly how much of a badass Cliff is, and also why the Kurt Russell character wants nothing to do with having Cliff on one of his sets. It's not just the rumors about Cliff's wife dying under suspicious circumstances, it is that Cliff makes trouble with his co-workers at times.
     
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  4. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    I think it is because we cut to that scene while Cliff is on the roof. Then after the fight and arguing cuts back to cliff on the roof shaking his head and saying “fair enough”.
    That’s him acknowledging the memory and agreeing that he went overboard. But still we’re seeing his point of view of a memory.
    Memories tend to be unreliable and often unrealistic.

    You could be right. This is just how I see it.
     
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  5. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

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    Yes, but I think the other thing about it being Cliff recalling this is I think he would prefer to believe that the Russell character and probably others don't want him around because of his fight with Bruce Lee not because they think he killed his wife. Which seems to be a topic he would prefer not to think about.
     
  6. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    The idea of the unreliable narrator is up to each viewer but I took the scene as having shown how it 'really' happened. I don't think Cliff has any need or desire to build himself up or lie to himself about being a tough guy because he is actually a tough guy.
     
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  7. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Producer

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    And it is a huge tease that he doesn't let us see the end result of the best 2 out of 3 falls. In my opinion Bruce would have destroyed Cliff once he got going, I mean he got thrown hard enough into a car to dent steel, and he hops right back up, barely fazed-- and energized for the final round. That is pretty bad ass.
     
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  8. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    Finally saw this one tonight. There was a lot I liked, but I didn't love it.

    The best performance in the movie for me was Dakota Fanning as Squeaky Fromme. It's the first adult performance I've seen from her that has really blown me away. The coiled intensity that she brings to the role gives every moment she's present a tense undercurrent.

    I also thought Julia Butters was great as the kid from the Lancer family. Precocious, but not obnoxiously so. And not dragged into it by her parents -- really, truly passionate about her craft.

    That part is true to history. Tex Watson (played by Austin Butler) took Sadie Atkins (played by Mikey Madison), Linda Kasabian (played by Maya Hawke), and Patty Krenwinkel (played by Madisen Beaty) to murder the occupants of Terry Melcher's old house. From what I can recall, everything lines up with the historical record until Rick Dalton comes out screaming in his bathrobe waving around a blender full of frozen margarita. Because of Dalton's interventions, they never crossed paths with Steven Parent and things took a very different turn. It's correct though that the Kasabian was the one who didn't participate in the murders.

    I liked it more than you did, but this is definitely at or near the bottom of the heap for me when it comes to QT's filmography. I appreciated the craft more than the story or most of the characters.

    That's one of the problematic elements of the movie for me. He obviously idolizes the period of Hollywood history that Dalton represents, even while he's satirizing it. The message seems to be: If only there were two masculine white dudes there that night, everything would have turned out differently.

    I thought it was a ballsy move, because it invites direct comparisons between the real person and the portrayal. But it worked here,

    The friend I saw it with had no knowledge of the Tate murders and only a passing knowledge of Charles Manson. Just like you said, he thought it was one long pointless ramble. Meanwhile every time Sharon Tate or a member of the Manson family showed up on screen, I tensed up.

    Definitely, given that it begins with him standing on the roof fixing the antenna and ends on the roof fixing the antenna. Undoubtedly something did happen that cemented the bad blood with that stunt coordinator, but it may or may not have been what was shown.
     
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  9. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    I think this is the type of movie that will grow on you after more than one viewing.
     
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  10. AshJW

    AshJW Supporting Actor

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    I think so too.
    That happened to me with Jackie Brown and Reservoir Dogs as well as Django Unchained.
     
  11. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

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    This is the one thing that I think is an issue for the film. Not an issue for those of us that know the history but in 2019 I think a lot of people have no idea what happened in 1969 with the Manson family. I did not know the young couple sitting next to me in the theater but they were more than a little baffled by the film. They had no idea who Sharon Tate was, and really as an actress you would have to consider her obscure at this point due to her brief career, and had no clue about Manson or even that he was in the film. So, essentially the climax of the picture they just thought was comedy. There was zero impact on them in terms of what Tarantino was doing.

    I chatted with them after the picture because I overheard their conversation and tried to explain who was who. It was pretty funny in some ways hearing what they thought was going on. They thought Tate was in the film because she was going to eventually hook up with Rick Dalton or Cliff Booth. There was no tension for them over who she really was and Tate's real life fate.

    They did not even realize that Manson made an appearance in the film and seemed like they did not even recall the scene he was in. "Which person was he?"

    So again, what was a tense moment for those of us who know who he was, for them was a zero.

    They thought Squeaky Fromme was the leader of the people living on the Spahn ranch.

    They thought she sent the three people to kill Cliff Booth and so never for a second thought they would be going to murder Tate.

    After I had explained things for a few minutes they laughed and said "Wow, we got none of that! Now I want to go read about it and watch it again."

    They basically thought the entire story had something to do with Rick and Cliff struggling in Hollywood but one of them would end up hooking up with Tate and through that their careers would take off and maybe Cliff would get revenge on Russell for trying to shut him out of working on his stuff.

    That just creates one of those instances where people in the theater were watching totally different films.

    I told them it is a totally different film if you know the history. However, I also found it sort of fascinating to talk to people that had a totally different take on the picture.
     
  12. Mark Booth

    Mark Booth Cinematographer
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    I caught a matinee yesterday. Another winner from Tarantino. I didn't get into any discussions with anyone in the theater but it was mostly an older (retired) crowd and I think they all "got it". I laughed out loud repeatedly as the Tarantino's signature violence finally erupted on the screen. It was long in coming, yet, I enjoyed everything leading up to it as well. A good "buddy" film.

    The Booth Bijou gives 'Once Upon a Time In Hollywood' 5 out of 5 stars. That's two 5 star films for me in 2 days (the other being 'The Art of Racing in the Rain'). Can't wait to share both of them in the Bijou Bijou Garage Theater.

    Mark
     
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  13. Message #413 of 424 Aug 21, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
    Mark Booth

    Mark Booth Cinematographer
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    BTW, not only is the violent encounter the Manson Family had with Cliff & Rick a figment of Tarantino's imagination, the house that Rick Dalton (DiCaprio's character) owns next door to the Polanski house is a figment of Tarantino's imagination too. The real house where the murders took place was demolished in 1994. A new home was built on the property in 1996. The address was changed (at that time) from 10050 Cielo Drive to 10066 Cielo Drive. At no time was there a home immediately to the right of the Polanski gated entrance off of Cielo Drive (as pictured in the film). The Rick Dalton house doesn't exist today and never existed on Cielo Drive (in that locale relative to the Polanski house).

    The real entrance to the private drive section of Cielo Drive (off of non-private Cielo Drive) is used in the film. Shots of cars driving up and down private Cielo Drive (onto non-private Cielo Drive) at this intersection are real. But once Tarantino takes us to the end of private Cielo Drive the scenes with the gated entrance (former Polanski home site) and Rick Dalton's home were either shot somewhere else or created with computer magic. I suspect Tarantino found a different location with a similar gated entry and house next door because I doubt the current residents of private Cielo Drive would be interested in having filming taking place that far up their street.

    Mark
     
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  14. Reggie W

    Reggie W Producer

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    We still have 4 months to go and they are the months where "award" films will be released but looking over what has come out this year and what I've seen (which I admit has not been much)...well...this is the best film of the year so far and it's not even close. So, at the moment I expect this will get a Best Picture (and Best Director, Writing, Cinematography, etc) nomination.

    And I'm not saying that from the position of a Tarantino fan boy...I like his work but see the flaws in it as well...but at the moment I think this stands head and shoulders above everything else released this year. I will say this is the first time in Tarantino's career that I have felt he has put out a potential "Best Picture" winner.
     
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  15. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I wholeheartedly agree. Us, Toy Story 4 and Midsommar were also very good too.
     
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  16. MartinP.

    MartinP. Supporting Actor

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    I don't know if your post reads as a criticism or just an FYI... It is a fairytale after all "Once Upon a Time..."
     
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  17. ScottJH

    ScottJH Supporting Actor

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    Saw it for a 4th time today. It was the final day @ my "good" Imax theater. My favorite movie so far this year and look forward to the UHD Blu-ray.
     
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  18. Mark Booth

    Mark Booth Cinematographer
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    It was an observation, not criticism.

    Seeing the film caused me to spend some time on my computer to read about the original murders and compare what I saw in the film to reality, including Google maps satellite images of the address. I quickly noticed that there was no house in the location of Rick Dalton's house as depicted in the film.

    Mark
     
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  19. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Producer

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    Boy do I agree with this. I saw the film 5 times in the theater. Although I really liked it a lot the first time, each additional time I focused on different scenes/dialogue. Loved it more each time I watched it.

    I can say without hesitation this is one of my all time favorite films. It checks every box of my likes, and what I feel makes great cinema. From stellar performances from all involved, to a unique, and different type of film in an over formulaic Hollywood currently. And the fairy tale/fantasy aspect with an oddball crowd pleasing ending in which history is changed for the better. Each viewing I left smiling.
    It is near perfection to me.
     
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  20. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Producer

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    And by the way Tarantino's IMDB page of Rick Dalton shows that he never had any work in film after 1971. So that fairy tale ending of maybe he meets Tate, and Polanski hires him to star in his movies....sorry.

    So either Rick Dalton dies, or he finds another line of work for the rest of his life!

    Actor (35 credits)
    1971 Operazione Dyn-o-mite!
    Jason
    1970 Hell Boats
    Lt. Comdr. Jeffords, R.N.V.R
    1970 Red Blood, Red Skin
    Romeo Douglas
    1970 Nebraska Jim
    Nebraska Jim
    1969 Kill Me Quick, Ringo Said the Gringo
    (Uccidimi Subito Ringo, Disse Il Gringo)
    Ringo
    1969 Lancer (TV Series)
    Caleb DeCoteau
    - Pilot (1969) ... Caleb DeCoteau
    1969 The F.B.I (TV Series)
    Michael Murtaugh
    - All the Streets Are Silent (1969) ... Michael Murtaugh
    1968 Land of the Giants (TV Series)
    Dr. David Hellstrom
    - Capture (1968) ... Dr. David Hellstrom
    1968 Bingo Martin (TV Series)
    Rocky Ryan
    - Heck to Pay (1968) ... Rocky Ryan
    1967 The Green Hornet (TV Series)
    Thompson Shaw
    - The Hornet Hunter (1967) ... Thompson Shaw
    1967 Tarzan (TV Series)
    Brick Bedford
    - Jewel of the Jungle (1967) ... Brick Bedford
    1967 Salty, The Talking Sea Otter
    Jeb Marvin
    1966 Jigsaw Jane
    Todd Gilcrest
    1966 Fourteen Fists of McCluskey
    Sgt. Mike Lewis
    1965 Tanner (TV Movie)
    Joe Tanner
    1964 Hellfire, Texas
    Maj. Travis Jackson
    1963 Big Game
    Randy Wilson
    1961 Comanche Uprising
    Lt. Warwick Winston
    1959-1963 Bounty Law (TV Series)
    Jake Cahill
    - Incident in Inez (1959) ... Jake Cahill
    - Incident in Beaver Falls (1959) ... Jake Cahill
    - Incident at Henry Minks Homested (1959) ... Jake Cahill
    - Incident on a stage bound for Tuscon (1959) ... Jake Cahill
    - Incident in Janicetown (1959) ... Jake Cahill
    - Incident in Perrytown Pt.1 (1959) ... Jake Cahill
    - Incident in Perrytown Pt.2 (1959) ... Jake Cahill
    48 episodes
    1959 Restless Gun (TV Series)
    Jake Cahill
    - Bounty Killer (1959) ... Jake Cahill
    1959 Battle Of The Coral Sea
    Reoman Halliday
    1959 Riverboat (TV Series)
    Will Henry
    - No Love Lost (1959) ... Will Henry
    1958 Bachelor Father (TV Series)
    Kelly’s Boyfriend
    - Girls Will Be Girls (1958) ... Kelly’s Boyfriend
    1958 Young And Wild
    Richard Edward “Rick” Braden
    1958 Tales Of Wells Fargo (TV Series)
    Butch Cassidy
    - The Hole in the Wall Gang (1958) ... Butch Cassidy
    1958 Drag Race, No Stop
    Race Wheeler
    1958 Man With A Camera (TV Series)
    Joey Savoyen
    - Second Avenue Assassin (1958) ... Joey Savoyen
    1958 Darby’s Rangers
    Sgt. / SSgt. / Sfc. Hank Bishop
    1957 Lux Video Theatre (TV Series)
    Jessie James
    - Death at Northfield (1957) ... Jessie James
    1957 M Squad (TV Series)
    Buzz
    - So Long Miss Mulligan (1957) ... Buzz
    1957 Tombstone Territory (TV Series)
    The Salt Flat Kid
    - Wyatt Earp Tells No Tales (1957) ... The Salt Flat Kid
    1956 A Strange Adventure
    Harold Norton
    1956 Jubal
    Woody
    1956 Away All Boats
    Private Pickford (uncredited)
    1956 These Wilder Years
     

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