OK- It's Been 4 Weeks- PSB Subsonic 6i vs SVS 25-31 PC Plus (1 Viewer)

[Lewis Besze]

Yeah but the room is part of the "sound" in a big way.This isn't a "laboratory test" but an inhouse audition.The sub should be placed where the listener believes it performs the best and then start to "judge" it,one at the time.

 

[Craig Chase]

Lewis, that would not work for a subwoofer blind listening test... I have tried that method ... and many others.

This is not something I decided on lightly, it took years of trial and error ...

This will allow one to decide which is the best sounding subwoofer, THEN work on placement.

For example, let's say subwoofer "A" sounds best in the front corner, and subwoofer "B" sounds best behind you..

It is impossible to do a blind listening test this way.

If you do it the way you suggest, it won't be a blind test... We have done over 100 comparisons, and the nearfield method works everytime.

 

[Martin Rendall]

That seems very unlikely to me, unless one (or both) of the subs had a really horrible response curve... which isn't going to happen at these price ranges.

Martin.

 

[Craig Chase]

Martin, I agree ... it is unlikely. I was challenged that the proper thing to do is find the best sounding spot in the room, as the room is a major portion of the sound of the subwoofer....

Well... carrying this forward, he more you eliminate the effect of the room, the more you hear just the subwoofer... which is why, among other reasons, nearfield listening is the most objective way to conduct a blind listening test ...

Once you figure out which is the superior design, THEN you figure out how to place it in room.

 

[Ilkka R]

It has extension to 20Hz, but it's not linear. So normally you can't hear those below 30Hz freqs, since linear response is only to 30Hz. That is what matters. Enjoy!

 

[Lewis Besze]

Not quite,you should be able hear the content below 30hz as this unit clearly reproduce 20hz signals without doubling. Doubling is the only thing it would mask the signal but then it's true extension wouldn't be 20hz and not at that amplitude,and TN would had note that.What you referring as linear is simply TN's "best case" bandwith uniformity figure,and not a direct indicator of what a sub can reproduce with real material.

 

[Ilkka R]

So you are telling me that PSB 6i has a (in room) FR say +-3dB down to 20Hz? Where can we see that? Cause if it doesn't have, you really can't hear the 20Hz, atleast without a PEQ. And if we take F-M curve into consideration, it's gets even more difficult.

 

[Lewis Besze]

No it's not F3 but close,it was also measured in a room of 7500^ft so in smaller rooms you can expect lower extensions with higher amplitude.As I said before if the fundamental isn't masked by higher harmonics[doubleing]then it is should be audiable,provided you know what to listen for.The Fletcher-Munson curve is mandatory as it's part of human hearing,we're not talking about measurments now,so it won't make anything more difficult.

 

[Ilkka R]

How close? Is there any other proof than your word? That 94dB at 20Hz is maximum spl, not extension or FR.

That is true what you say about harmonics, but that's a rare situation. Where can you hear pure say 20Hz signal? Organmusic maybe or siniwave. With movies and other kind of music fundamentals are always there.

I brought F-M curve into this, because lower freqs. should be at higher level to hear them properly. If 20Hz is lower than 30Hz, it's very difficult to hear it. Yes, you can hear it if you play siniwave, but other than that...

 

[Lewis Besze]

Right but that is always "present" so it won't make anything more difficult as you put it.
I'm not sure what your beef here, this is an excellent sub for the money and more ,anyone who understands it's actual measured data will agree with me on this,like TV does.

 

[Ilkka R]

I see only -3dB 31Hz measured by TN. At 20Hz it can be anything between -10dB and inf. Can you do the math properly?

My beef is that this sub isn't a real sub. F3 at 31Hz isn't very good. 20Hz is impossible with this sub (with real music or movies). Sure it will sound "faster" and tighter, but as I said, limited FR "causes" this.

 

[James Edward]

I guess it's time to get out my SPL meter and test discs so I can let you know my in-room response. At this point, I can only say that the 6i sounds great, and TN's tests seem to bear this out on an objective level.

 

[Nigel Hooper]

James it's a great sub enjoy it. If it's not a certain brand you're raving about you will get flamed I've noticed.

 

[Drew Bethel]

TN says: "The SubSonic 6i sounded utterly clean. Low bass had excellent depth and envelopment, allowing precise positioning of higher-frequency sounds from the main speakers. I could clearly hear the tomato squish in Chapter 15 of The Matrix Reloaded “test” DVD."

Hmmm..I'm gonna go home tonight and do the "tomato test" on my old CT-150

 

[Lewis Besze]

Like I said anyone who understands TN's measurments will conclude differently including TN himself.Now I know why the Kalevala is a tough read!

 

[Ilkka R]

30Hz is pretty good, but to us who wants to hear the last octave, it just isn't enough. And I still can't see your math calculations? F3 was measured at 31Hz, you said it would be near to 20Hz, how is that possible? A smaller room might bring that to 28-30Hz, but that is still long way from 20Hz.

You've read Kalevala? I haven't.

 

[Eric Hargrove]

I am glad James likes his new sub. There is really no reason not to. It appears to be very respectable. I personally prefer SVS but understand that they can't be all things to all people. Competition is what drives manufacturers to strive to build better products. Imagine if everyone liked and drove a Ford Taurus. What a boring world this would be.

 

[Martin Rendall]

I feel that way about SUVs. And my dystopia has come true.

Martin.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Rest assured that's not the only thing ............!

 

[Ilkka R]

Hah, merry christmas to you too!

btw. You lied.