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Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by todd stone, Nov 24, 2001.
He is in the future I presume and the apes took over earth... somehow?
Nope, as it turns out it was all a dream. Actually I'm not really sure. I watched the DVD and looked carefully at the instrument panel and he was clearly going back in time at the end of the movie and he was clearly on Earth yet it makes it seem like Thade had escaped and influenced the (apes)future to become exactly as ours had turned out. Crazy time warps, screwing everything up
Who knows? Even Tim Burton wouldn't explain it. Just enjoy it for what it was and say "Hmmm, that was neat".
Read the card that comes with the DVD, It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't get the ending
A wormhole(or whatever they want to call it) is unstable, therefore the point of exit is random, as seen by The ship arriving thousands of years before Marky Mark, who arrived several days before the monkey
General Thade is last seen locked in the ship. Who says (presuming he'll get out eventually) he couldn't have gotten in one of the pods and rode it on autopilot to Earth, and arrived during the stone age, and procreated creating the ape race on Earth?
Tim Burton wanted to have a suprise ending like the first one had. The only problem was is he didn't have the creative ability to pull off his surpise ending without telegraphing exactly what it was. To avoid telegraphing his big "surprise" he tacks it on, using the reasoning that he can always make up some bullshit story to explain it later if anyone asks. Then again it could be tack it on and if anyone asks what was with the ending, he could say....."Hey, if you don't get it, I'm not telling you" because in reality he doesn't give a shit if it makes sense.....he just wanted the film to have a surprise ending!
Well, that is my opinion, either he was being an incompetent story teller or he just didn't give a shit because it was his way of yelling.....SUCKERS!! I'm leaning toward the latter.
Thought I'd hit every POTA "ending" post with this info. After doing some research... I found a site which may be interesting to those with questions regarding the ending. Go to www.planetoftheapes.com/main.asp... click "about the movie"... "ape insights"... "launch research project...".. this is a more detailed online version of the card.... and it give many pieces of info in regards to the ending... stating them very plainly as apparent "fact"...even though this info wasn't given in the movie. And this is an offical FOX video site.
OK, so Thade gets out of the space ship somehow, gets into either the remaining pod in the ship (there were 3) or somehow is able to swim into that pond and get that pod out, then finds out that it has power in it, then he flies to Earth and goes through our history EXACTLY like we did only with apes. Doesn't seem at all logical. Even if Thade got free from the ship, he would either use the 1 pod left in the ship (which probably is low on fuel) or would have to learn to swim without drowning to get the other pod.
In general, people with vidid imaginations do not understand the "need" for so many to have everything spelled out to them.
For me, it isn't a matter of needing it spelled out or not using imagination. I have no problem in using my imagination...in fact, I had speculated to myself that Thade had somehow gone back
but I discarded the idea because there was nothing in the movie that could logically support the idea. As I typed this it suddenly occurred to me how the surprise ending could have logically made sense but Burtons specific use of Thade
causes the theory to collapse.
On further thought the whole ending can never make logical sense because it creates a huge paradox that makes everything that happened before it impossible. If Burton did say that people should use their own imaginations, it doesn't wash because he, himself, never bothered to explore the ramifications of this movie's end. As usual, IMO.
A movie is supposed to tell a story, not tell nine-tenths of a story and then peter out with a half-cocked and pointless twist.
The reason Burton "refuses" to explain the ending is because it's simply nonsense; a pseudo-clever ironic twist cribbed directly from The Twilight Zone with nary a thought for story logic or sense.
Ambiguous is fine, just don't present me with nonsense and then claim that I "just didn't get it".
Why is this so hard to get? Did anyone else see Limbo stealing stuff from Leo's pod and Leo tell him to keep it? Is it so hard to imagine that he might have let Thade out or broken him out somehow with that technology? Is it so hard to imagine that Thade (obviously a smart one) figured out how to launch a pod?
It all seemed rather simple to me the first time I saw it. Guess I was using my imagination.
I was one of the first people on this board back in July that proposed the idea that Thade used the pod in the lake and got back to earth...and changed history.. so that apes took over...
for the people that say this is impossible..
its just connecting the dots..
when I first saw..the scene where marky mark lands on earth during the 70's..(the cop cars the old flash bulbs, eather jackets & turtle necks told me this was the 1970's)
then they show the back of what, at the time you thought it was the lincoln monument, but..its wasnt.. its a monument to Thade.. I went.."huh..how did that happen?"
about 20 seconds later I figured it out.. and I'm no brainiac
just ask yourself the question. how could Thade get to earth and change history? hmm lets see last we saw him, he was trapped in the ship.. but there was that pod in the lake..hmmm.. with the way time travel goes..Thade has all the time in the universe to escape..get the pod out of the lake and working again. if you use that apes cant swim agrument.. maybe he took control of humans and forced them to do it for him..
for Tim Burton to refuse to explain the ending.. is sort of odd...kind of like there's more to it than what I stated,, but like a poster previously said.. maybe he's upset that people arent thinking for themselves..using their imagination..
my therory make sense to me.. all you can just tell others what you think and if they say.. "oh cool..so thats how it happened"..then great.. if they say.. "thats not it.. it still doesnt make sense, the movie was dumb".. then too bad for them.. you just have to movie on.. its just a movie after all.. no point in starting a holy war over this..
If Thade used the ship that Leo crash-landed in, why didn't Leo simply use it to leave the planet rather than risking his life to meet his friends?
More likely what happened is the humans and the apes advanced their knowledge to the point that they could repair either of the two ships on the planet. I suppose Thade could have then used one of the ships to fly into the EMF and subsequently land on Earth. Keep in mind after the ships enter the EMF, they exit at a random point in time.
Keep in mind that WATER IS LETHAL TO APES. And why would they let Thade escape? And how would Thade, by himself, take over the Earth? And how would Thade go through history EXACTLY like humans?
I'm sorry, but taking everything into account, there is NO WAY THIS FILM MAKES SENSE. Present any theory besides "use your imagination" and I can break it down because the film doesn't make sense. Like others have said, its ambiguous.
Morgan, the bottom line here is that the ending was left open for a sequel. I'm guessing that was the main reason. That and the fact that the 1968 version had a surprise, so the writers for the re-imagining felt compelled to do the same thing.
The ending leaves it open to a sequel, yes, but as to how they will explain it, I don't know. The only applicable theory I could suggest is an alternate universe, but that would turn the series into...crap, IMO.
The ending to the film uses exactly the same premise to the original book's ending! Except that it adds the whole 'intelligent apes were an unnatural bi-product of our experiments and years of enhanced evolution' plotline. In the book Ulysse Merou travels to a distant world with a team of scientists using an advanced form of space travel, to find a world populated by apes - in a society that uses technology comparable to out own - i.e. cars electricity, aeroplanes... and literally 'animal' humans. The apes speak a different language, but after being captured, he gradually gains the trust of the ape studying him through sign-language and mimicry, and gradually learns their language. They are eventually, despite some skepticism, convinced he is civilised, and he is let out. He joins a research team and discovers that the world had was been like Earth, but for an unexplained reason, the apes evolution began accelerating at an alarming speed, and the humans began digressing to savages. He stirs up society so much, that he is forced to leave, and on returning to earth, lands and finds that the world is now populated by intelligent apes!!! - suggesting that the exact same thing happened on earth that happened on the distant world!
All the screenwriters did for POTA2001 was add inteligent humans, a complicated worm-hole time-travel plot, and tack on the book's ending, ignoring the fact that it made absolutely no sense in the context of the new material - but hey.... I really enjoyed it! So who cares!
It never ceases to amaze me how many people instantly assume that the "Thade" we see at the end is the same "Thade" we left trapped in the ship. Supposedly, Thade's ancestors were direct descendants of their Ape God Cemus (sp?). So, how about this theory?
Have fun breaking this one down Morgan
The Oberon crashes. The oberon has a whole lot of pods on board, check out the scene when the pod launches, and you'll notice tons of pod launch doors outside the ship. Anyways, the Humans and Apes start working together, as we discover in that log Marky mark finds. They probably try to repair some pods so they can get off the planet and get rescued. Being that the planet is so primitive, this process will probably take a good deal of time. So, Humans and Apes work together to repair this small fleet of pods in order to get rescued. Thade's great great great great (however many greats we need) Grandfather begins stirring up trouble among the apes, warning that once the Humans find rescue, the apes will be forced back into servitude. So, Thade's granpappy leads a rebellion, in the process He, and some of his followers, steal the pods and head on back to Earth. This will happen soon enough after the crash to make their piloting of the craft much more plausible than the thade we know somehow getting free and repairing the sunken pod. So, Thade's grandpappy and company arrive on earth, lead a revolution amongst the genetically enhanced Apes on earth and boom, planet of the apes. This gives us a reasonable explanation for Thade being on the monument (it's Thade's grandaddy, the first "thade" for whom our thade will eventually be namned) and why all of the architecture is the same. The Apes just took over.
This works for me a lot better than Thade suddenly becoming a genius
The only problem is that POTA2k1 doesn't take place on Earth.
So Thade goes to Earth, goes through our history EXACTLY as we did, and somehow still has a child on the ape planet?
And the apes will be so powerful (all what, 5 or so maybe?) to take over the Earth?
So we are assuming that there are a ton of pods left that can launch and the apes are powerful enough to not get shot or blown up by us humans on Earth. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Any explanation involving an ape take over is very unlikely because apes, even superhuman, cannot take over the Earth unless it is very early in our evolution. And even then, history would be different, so everything wouldn't look the same.
Gosh Morgan, you sure are hostile. Not to mention you don't read carefully enough. I never said Thade's grandpappy went back into Earth's history, I said he goes back to earth (Marky mark's earth) and lead a rebellion amongst the Earth apes. If I were writing the sequel, I'd have Thade's Grandpappy arrive maybe 5 or 10 years after the time that Marky Mark went back. Assuming that the Apes on Earth have been similarily genetically altered, perhaps to serve as domestice servants, do work too dangerous for humans, whatever, then there's no reason a militant ape like Thade's grandpappy couldn't raise a ruckus amongst the Apes of earth. And don't get me wrong when I say fleet, it's just a turn of phrase. 3 or 4 pods max is my guess, but even one is enough. Sure, singlehandedly taking over the earth is ridiculous, but one ape, blending into the ape population of Earth, raising dissent amongst the oppressed apes, that's not so hard.
As for whether a ton of pods would be left, who knows. There were tons of pods on board, whose to say a couple didn't survive, or at least were salvagable? And why would Earth shoot down one of it's own pods? Like they would know a nasty, rebel rousing ape is aboard.
Now, why couldn't apes take over? Let's say we've bread apes to work for us, mining, domestic servants, crap like that. They're much stronger than we are, they're in an environment where it's possible for them to become just as smart as or smarter than we are, so what's stopping them? With some great strategists and some ingenuity and it would make a great movie. I think you give Human's too much credit, often we don't see things until it's too late. How else do you think the Nazi's came to power? Do you think we would allow it today? Of course not, do you think they would have allowed it back then? of course not. It still happened though. If the apes in this scenario organized and then struck in unison, without any warning, how would we stop them. There'd be a war sure, but who is to say that we would neccessarily win? Sounds like something out of the Planet of the Apes series to me
I still cannot think that the apes would be able to take over the Earth. Even if they did, would they really want to live life like we did?
In the ship, near the beginning of the film, they show only 3 pods in the ship. Assuming 1 for the chimp, one for Mrk Wahlberg, that would leave 1 left. How would they know how to salvage a pod if they were salvagable anyway?
Mark Wahlberg seems to return to Earth in a time before the time period that he left, which would suggest that the apes would not be genetically altered.
If the apes tried to take over the earth, we would stop them. We're not talking about regular humans who can actually think complex thoughts, but primitive apes who, even with genetic alterations, have not evolved to the point of thought. The apes on the planet of the apes were not the first generation of apes on that planet, so they had a LONG time to evolve.
Who's to say that the apes on Earth are genetically altered? They were running tests on the apes in space and those apes weren't that smart, so that somehow translates into using them for slave labor? I find that far fetched.
I've said it before: the ending doesn't make sense unless you think of some very outlandish theory, and if that theory was the only one, then it would just be stupid and make the film even worse. The only possible thing I can think of is alternate dimensions, but if that is the case, then the film really was worse than I thought.