Ohio kids found in cages (1 Viewer)

[Jeff_Standley]

F that, I have a friend who deals elderly people who cant take care of themselves and a friend who deals with mentally challenged people. and neither one has kids. I would rather take on the responsibility of kids rather than have the responsibility that they deal with. So by that comment your friend needs to slapped in the mouth.

 

[Chris Lockwood]

> there is NO scenario where putting children in cages would ever be appropriate

What about a zoo?

 

[DustinLC]

For all those who are angry at this. No one here believe what they did was right. There are only two arguments here:

1. Kill them or not .

2. Do having kids make you more pissed over the story .

Yeah I can think of scenario where it was ok. It's for fun for example. Though I don't think this was a case where some extra cages where used to play zoo and got blow out of proportion but I certainly think there are reasons not to storm into the house and blow their heads off.

Looks like no further info on this just like so many news that get you up and arm and fail to tell you the conclusion once the story become less interesting; it doesn't make headline news anymore.

There are exception such as that crematory guy who the police find more and more bodies everyday. There might be more children found in cages, refrigerator and dresser drawers. Stay tuned .

On the happy note, none of the kids appeared to suffered any physical abuses and everyone who ever saw them thought they were well dressed and well cared for. I guess that's why no charges made yet.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Full time cop, looking for his 20 years. Went to law school while working 40 hours plus details. Does real estate and some liability on the side. Won't take cases that are ambulance chasing, but does take cases where the liability is clear. The thing is, he was never a very strong student. My family says he is the Terry O'Reilly (Boston Bruins hockey player who overcame very poor skating skills to become a leading scorer through sheer force of will and toughness) of the academic world.

 

[Joe Szott]

Mark and Dustin, fair enough. I can see your points.

Definitely I don't think vigilante executions are called for here. But unless they have a damn good reason for this, I would expect at the least to have all their kids removed from their custody and some heavy community service.

Certainly having kids changes your perspective. I used to think that child molesters (the "really" bad kind that don't leave witnesses behind) should be locked up for life. Post-kids I've come around to think, "ya know, f' em. You get one chance to reform in jail, after that it's insta-execution." Someone that could do that to a child are so far gone, there's no way I can see that they could ever be trusted in society.

It's definitely an emotional response, but ultimately not a bad one I think.

 

[MarkHastings]

Most definitely. I would assume the parents are just f-ed up in the head and can be treated with 'help'. Hopefully the kids can be sheltered somewhere until the parents are ready to be 'responsible' parents.

I hope this really isn't another case of people just being pure evil and sadistic.

 

[Jeff_Standley]

I hope so too.

 

[DustinLC]

Different subject but relates how strongly people response to report like this is how people react to animal cruelty.

There were report in our local radio station about how someone like to run over ducks. I was really surprise by people's reaction and was ready to take the law in their own hand. I was thinking: yeah sure that's weird but don't we eat them and hunt them?

Then you all remember that San Francisco incident where road rage made this man get out of his car at the airport and threw the lady's dog onto traffic. The lady cutted him off. That incident got nationwide attention over so many other more important news like missing children, murder, ect. This man if seen on the street, would be shot a billion times.

Yet, in many countries, eating dog is OK while in our country, eating pig and cattle are OK.

I know it's completely different than the children involved here but just reminded of it by the discussion of how having kids change your perspective.

 

[andrew markworthy]

Yes, agreed, and I think that practically everyone who got upset about the dog being killed would agree as well. However, the agreement would largely be at a logical rather than emotional level. I suspect that why people have an especial horror of animal cruelty because it's something that we can see how easy it is to do but it is also something that we know we can resist doing. On the other hand, a very serious crime such as cold blooded murder or child molestation is something most people have never had to resist the temptation to do, and indeed is so far beyond most people's understanding that they just cannot grasp it and thus lack the same visceral reaction.

 

[Paul Padilla]

The emphasis of the duck and dog stories would seem to me to lay around two things.

1. Senseless slaughter...(possibly even for enjoyment in the case of the duck.)
2. An angle that reporters can use in their stories.

Number 1. is unconscionable under any circumstances. To wipe a living animal out, just because it happens to be in front of you at the moment is nothing but slaughter for the sake of it. In the airport case, if the road rage was out of control to the point that he had no regard for the dog, the woman's safety was also in danger.

Number 2. always has to be taken into account when wondering why some things are big news when others aren't. Children go missing and people are murdered every day, but these other incidents are odd and therefore easier to hype.

 

[DustinLC]

I believe it's our culture. Children and pets get the most attention. In many other parts of the world, children get whipped and spanked for bad behavior, and dogs and cats get left over food.

 

[Paul Padilla]

For me it's more the innocence that gets me angry. Children and animals have no malice. Unless there's an illness of some kind involved they only return what they are given. Children, and to a lesser degree animals, are defenseless and if two adults want to knock each other around they can go for it. But when abuse is focused on something that can't fight back or is severly outmatched then I have a real problem with that.

 

[MarkHastings]

I don't mean to sound hypocritical (because I eat meat), but killing an animal for food should be done for 'survival/nourishment'. The thing that bugs me about most hunters is the fact that they enjoy it. You should NEVER get any sort of enjoyment out of killing no matter what you do with it.

Hunting should be a thankful/humbling experience, not an orgasmic "I am king of the world" type of ordeal.

 

[Rob Gardiner]

I think the point Mark Hastings was trying to make on page 2 was that people with children are more likely to respond to the story emotionally rather than rationally. (Mark, please correct me if I'm mis-stating your position.) I agree with him. The suggestion that the parents should be taken out back and shot is clearly an emotional reaction -- no one on the HTF seriously advocates murder.

Since I am childless, I can respond to the story dispassionately. The CNN story raises 3 red flags: 1) The parents' side of the story is barely represented (and from a 2nd hand source) 2) the word "cages" is a loaded term -- as another poster pointed out, the cribs we put babies in are essentially cages, but the word "cribs" does not invoke moral outrage, and 3) the story is very thin on facts. Given the information in the CNN article, all I can conclude is that the children were subject to improper bedding at night. This is hardly a capital offense.

As with any story of local significance that receives national coverage, the further away from the original source the story is, the more watered down it gets. I'm surprised that no one who has participated in this discussion has seen fit to research more complete coverage of the event. In this, as in many other matters, Google is your friend. This link: http://www.topix.net/city/wakeman-oh contains ongoing coverage of the story and provides many facts that are not in the original CNN article.

From http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050913/...caged_children :


I bring this up not to defend the parents, or to suggest that they did nothing wrong, but to demonstrate that there are always more facts available than those found in CNN's little blurb.

I encourage everyone in this discussion to read those links, or do Google searches on "wakeman children cages" to get a more complete picture of the situation. There's a lot of info out there that I didn't quote -- some of the cages were rigged with alarms that sound when opened, indicating that at least some of the cages were not physically secured, as the term "locked" would indicate; the wife complained, years ago, that the husband had been abusing the children; one of the parents' adult children tried to get custody of the adopted children; the children are home-schooled, and the father has built a church near the home; and many many other things that should be considered before jumping to any conclusion.

 

[MarkHastings]

That's probably a better word. 'Rationally' was the only thing I could think of at the time, but it really wasn't the best word.

Thanks for the links Rob. It does sound like the parents tried to do what was 'best' for the children.

 

[Joe Szott]

So now you're saying that even though you DON'T hunt yourself, all hunters should be of a certain mindset when hunting? That's crazy, how can you tell someone what to experience or what to feel while living their life?

I guess by your thinking Hemmingway shouldn't have been allowed to hunt/fish/live the way he did and not produce the writing we enjoy today? Even if you dislike Hemmingway, only a fool would say his lifestyle and viewpoints weren't very American and valuable to our culture.

I've got an idea: enjoy what you enjoy and leave the things you don't to those that do. You can't dictate taste or preference to someone, so why even try?

 

[MarkHastings]

Oh god, here we go again :rolleyes

Joe, you feel that it's ok to go around killing animals because you enjoy it????

Killing for food is one thing, but doing it because you find it "exhilarating", is sad!

 

[RobertR]

This is really taking the thread off-tangent in a big way. Doesn't anyone else want to comment on Rob's links? It shows the importance of gathering all the facts.

 

[Jeff_Standley]

I have had a change of heart guys, after reading the last couple posts I have realized that cages are ok given the right circumstances.
Im going out today and getting a cage for my 3 year old. I will paint it pretty colors and put a dresser right in front of it so that it seems like a room to the infant. Im also going to get a dog muzzle for him. You see, he likes to scream like all kids do, and I just cant take it. So I will put this muzzle on him, painted and bedazzled of course so it looks pretty as not to be confused with a mean muzzle. I will then put it on him so he cant harm his delicate ear drums and others as well.


Yeah right, come on guys. This is rediculous.

 

[MarkHastings]

And this is different from a pacifier, how??