Oh My God !! Real Music (1 Viewer)

[Mike Loiterman]

I just subscribed to a SACD mailing list...if anyone is interested just click http://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sacd.
Like I said, I just subscribed so I can't say if its worthwhile or not, but I'll report back.

 

[GeorgeC]

There are about 5 Best Buys within half an hour of me, and they're not as in sync with each other as you'd expect. Price changes rarely seem to happen in all stores at once. It usually seems to take a few to several days, so I often call several different stores first, to see who's hooked into the lowest price first (they usually act amazed that another one of their stores has a lower price). In addition, some stores mark 10% off on open box units, some 15% (and lower depending on condition).

And yes, definitely don't go there (or Circuit City, Good Guys or Fry's) without doing research first (on both products and prices). Amazingly, Good Guys frequently advertises "sale" prices on their special sale flyers that are list price! And most people don't seem to notice! Thank God we can research on the net.

 

[KeithH]

Mike Loiterman,
Thanks for the tip on the SACD mailing list. I get enough e-mail as it is, so I hope you don't mind if I leave you to be the guinea pig here. Let us know if the mailing list is any good.
Mike_G,
Glad you found the SACDs at your local Best Buy. Yes, the Sony SACD web site is comprehensive as far as Sony's titles go.
George,
Your observations with prices at Best Buy stores in your area is interesting. One really has to be careful. I don't want to make a big deal about this, but I wonder if Best Buy's pricing is at all dependent on area demographics. In other words, I wonder if Best Buy stores will hold onto higher prices for a weekend (lots of shoppers on the weekend) in areas where they believe the demographics can support these higher prices. I could very well be wrong here because there may not be enough price drops in the store to make a significant difference one way or the other. It could just be that Best Buy is not on top of things, so some stores are just slow to adjust prices.
The advertising practices of Good Guys is bothersome. I don't care for stores that advertise "everyday low prices" that in actuality are the same as everyone else's.

 

[Mike Loiterman]

KeithH:

I sent you a message about the low price of the 222es at JandR, but you may not see that for w while.

Anyway, I looked at the website, but its listed at $499.00. I guess I need to call to get the $380 price? I hate to get on the phone though if I don't have to, as I know I'll be pressured into something.

Beisdes, is it worth it to upgrade my 775 to the 222es?

Also...could you list the top 5 or 10 SACD discs in your collection?

Thanks!

 

[DuaneN]

I just took the plunge also. After trying out the RP91, Sony 900 and the Yamaha CX1 I took home the Denon 1600 last weekend. The picture was right there with the Yamaha but almost half the price! It is my understanding that it is the same chipset as the RP56 but the picture quality was definately improved over the 56. The audio did not seem as vibrant as the CX1 and the Sony 900 (when comparing on DD and DTS tracks). The CX1 had the best DVD-A reproduction but was way overpriced. Nice stop gap for the upcoming Denon DVD-3800 which looks to be awesome.

After it was all said and done I missed the SACD of the Sony so I went back out and grabbed the SCD-555 (on the great recommendations of KeithH !!) in addition to the Denon 1600. My salesguy hooked me up. Ended up paying $479 for the Sony555 and $429 for the Denon.

So my ratings....I had the sony and the RP91 at the same time but the others were not A/B comparisons--I know, I know that makes subjectivity enter...)

Video

1. Denon 1600 (I give it the nod for the price)

2. Yamaha CX1

3. RP91

4. Sony 900 (too soft)

Audio (DD and DTS)

1. Yamaha

2. Sony

3. RP91

4. Denon

Audio (MultiChannel--Difficult to compare formats)

1. Yamaha

2. Sony

3. RP91

4. Denon

I love multi-channel music!!!! Hurry up 3800!!

 

[KeithH]

Duane,

$479 is a wonderful price for the 'C555ES. You did good. Enjoy it! Give us a report at some point.

Mike Loiterman,

I haven't seen your Private Message yet. Admittedly, I don't check them every day, but I will check it out right after I finish this post.

You have to call J&R for the "real" price on the 'C222ES, which is $380. Sony doesn't allow retailers to advertise low-ball prices, and authorized dealers can only advertise the retail price of ES components, which is $500 in the case of the 'C222ES. As for calling J&R, I find that their salesmen usually aren't too pushy. At most, I had salesmen quote me the price and when they saw I wasn't going to pull the trigger, they said, "I can go a bit lower if you want to take care of this now." That doesn't usually happen, but I imagine the salesmen have the green light to go lower on certain products, either items that are slow movers or items where the mark-up is higher than normal. Anyway, no matter what they say, you can always hang up. Chances are that if you called back to buy something later, either you would get a different salesperson or the same salesman wouldn't remember you.

As for my top ten SACDs, that's a tough call. Here are some that I feel are good in terms of both sound quality and music (in no particular order):

* Rebecca Pidgeon The Raven (Chesky Records)

* Chris Botti Night Sessions (Sony Music)

* Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble Couldn't Stand the Weather (Sony Music)

* The Sopranos: Peppers & Eggs (Sony Music)

* James Taylor Hourglass (Sony Music)

* The Isley Brothers 3 + 3 (Sony Music)

* Keb' Mo' The Door (Sony Music)

* Celine Dion All the Way...A Decade of Song (Sony Music)

* Herbie Hancock Head Hunters (Sony Music)

* The Dave Brubeck Quarter Time Out (Sony Music)

* Joe Satriani Engines of Creation (Sony Music)

* Cyndi Lauper She's So Unusual (Sony Music)

* All Miles Davis SACDs (Sony Music)

Most of my SACDs are Sony titles, though I have titles from smaller labels on my wantlist. If you search the music board here, you will find positive reviews of some of those discs. What kind of music do you like?

 

[KeithH]

Mike Loiterman, I forgot to respond to your question about the 'CE775 versus the 'C222ES. I saw in an earlier post that you just got the 'CE775. So, I imagine you could return it to do the upgrade. If so, I would say, absolutely, it is worth getting the 'C222ES if you can spend the extra $200. No matter what, I feel the 'C222ES is a worthy upgrade, but it might be less inviting if you were stuck with the 'CE775. I had the 'CE775 for about two weeks ($200 from J&R) and returned it for the 'C222ES when I learned of the price drop on the latter model. Out of the box, the 'C222ES is a more impressive piece in terms of build quality and appearance. Plus, it sounds great. I still need to do more comparisons, but I feel the 'C222ES sounds better than the 'C333ES stereo SACD changer I have in the same system. Anyway, the combination of better build quality, better sound quality, and the five-year ES warranty easily makes the 'C222ES worth the extra $200 over the 'CE775 to me. The 'CE775 is quite good for $200, but the extra money definitely gets you a better machine in the 'C222ES.

 

[GeorgeC]

Keith,

It's possible Best Buy has a plan, it's just hard to tell.

I'm really enjoying my 775 (even my CDs sound better). That's an amazing deal for the price. If I can budget a 555 before they run out, I'll do it, though.

Where is the 555 $479? Or was that part of a package price for buying two players?

 

[DuaneN]

I have a buddy at Ultimate Electronics. I am sure that he was able to cut me even more of a deal because I bought both (The 1600 and the 555) and also because of the amount if stuff that I buy there He has always been excellent to work with.
My rule of thumb is if I can buy it locally for within $50 (which he has always met the best internet price or beat it for me) then I get it locally. Much easier to deal with a local store when you go through 4 players in a month and a half!! He also told me as I was leaving with the 1600 that he would set aside the first 3800 that comes in for me to check out.

 

[Jeff PB]

I tried to pitch a deal to the guy at Ultimate Electronics offering $600 for the C555, and after checking to see if he could do it or not (the item on the shelf was listed at 679), the best he came back with was like $640. Plus remember sales tax will be added onto these local retail prices. I already let them rob me on the rp91 and a few other items so I think I am done with them.

Also it seems something is up with the Sony line as I talked to someone at another local dealer I am friendly with, who said everything they had left was going on close out soon. I may talk to them more this week to see if they know anything about what is coming.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Just thought I'd post that I picked up the DVD-A's of Hotel California and American Beauty and am extremely impressed. I actually only have access to the DD/DTS data at the moment, but I find the mixes to be extremely cool (this is confirmed by the fact that I can actually sit through Hotel in it's entirety...it's a much different experience from what I've owned for the last 25 years). Some might find them "gimmicky", but it's much easier to hear into the music with these discs, and I'm really excited to get into actual DVD-A.

 

[KeithH]

Duane,
Sounds like you have a good thing going at Ultimate Electronics.
Jeff,
I agree that Sony is up to something. They dropped price on a lot of items lately, including some that haven't been out that long.
Jack,
Given your impressions of the Dolby Digital track on Hotel California, you won't believe your ears when you hear the DVD-Audio track.

 

[GeorgeC]

Jack,

I was impressed with many of the DTS surround mixes, but to me, the overall sound quality on many discs wasn't as great or as smooth as I'd hoped. When I got a DVD-Audio player, I was really surprised at how much better it sounded to me. I agree with Keith. If you like the DTS tracks, everything just seems to come together beautifully with DVD-Audio. I'm not crazy about all the surround mixes on this format either (though some are great), but the sound quality, the clarity, the depth, the smoothnesss,the airiness, is wonderful.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Yeah, I figure the actual DVD-A track will be a revelation.

I'm not impressed with the sound "quality" of the DD/DTS as such (nowhere near SACD multichannel, of course, and removing the distraction of video from compressed sound does not flatter it) but, as I noted, the fact that the new mixes open things up quite a bit. Previously buried parts/harmonies are apparent or easier to follow, which is important musically apart from the actual quality.

 

[John Tillman]

Jack:

If you enjoy the sound of Hotel C & American Beauty, check out America's DVD-A as well. I found Ventura Highway worth the price of admission just by itself, multi-ch or stereo.

 

[PaulKH]

tony randall - you say you don't get much distinct audio from the surround channels yet I think you also said you want more of the soundstage up front - now sure how to reconcile those two points. :b

Anyway, if you listen to Two Against Nature on DVD - you'll hopefully be astounded by the separation and sound quality. It's amazing.

 

[tony randall]

Paul,

I don't know either. I must be too new here. It was suggested to me that the upfront soundstage is what I prefer, as opposed to the middle of the band. Ideally for me, the instruments and vocalists are 'located' in distinct spots.

I am guessing that the person that suggested this likes the middle of the band feel. That's fine with me. I tried to respond in his/her terms, but apparently failed. I specifically asked how the lead vocalist coming out of both fronts, both surrounds and the center channel can accurately be described as 'middle of the band'. ( It would seem to me that if you are up on that stage playing a mean bass, that singer is standing on only one side of you. ) The response came back that I must be talking about DD or something other than DVD-A, and that 'statements like that will get you excommunicated.'

With that, I decided to no longer follow this thread. When I saw today that this thread had grown to two pages, I decided to have a look. At the risk of excommunication, I post again in this thread, to reply to Paul. I have been active in other threads to make sure that I have all components properly setup. It took me a few days, but it is properly setup. I read many statements on this forum on how terrific the 'Rumours' DVD-A is. I have asked, in other threads on this forum, for people that have heard 'Rumours' to provide some specific examples of what they notice in the multichannel mix. No one has chosen to reply. That's fine.

I am only on this forum in an attempt to seek knowledge. With respect to 'Real Music', SACD/DVD-A offer higher resolution than redbook, AND a multichannel mix (which is my primary interest in these formats). So far, I have enjoyed every aspect of every MC SACD I have heard (wish they were all dual-layer, so I can play them elsewhere...). However, the multichannel mix of several DVD-A titles I have has been less than stellar, especially now that all components are properly setup. With some feedback related to the multichannel improvements, I can listen more discreetly and possibly change my opinion of DVD-A. I had hoped to use 'Rumours' as a reference point, since I see that one referred to quite a bit on this forum.

 

[Jeff PB]

My only hi-rez disk is the Steely Dan DVD-A title I mentioned when starting this thread, and I was referring to the stereo mix. However, I have since listened to it again in multi-channel / surround and it is simply incredible.

 

[Doug_B]

I am wondering why there isn't much mention of the new Pioneer Elite DVD player (47A?) that provides both DVD-A and SACD. I would think that the DVD-A quality should be no worse than other DVD players at the same price point, which I assume is good enough. As for SACD, would it at least compare to the Sony 775, if not better?

The reasons I bring this up are: 1) I like the idea of keeping the cables and other hardware to a minimum, i.e., one source and 6 cables vs 2 sources, 2 "switch" boxes (e.g., the RS 2-to-1 boxes), and 18 cables, 2) I'm not sure that one format has enough material to make me happy, 3) I really don't need a new DVD player yet, so I'm not concerned about its video quality, if that's an issue with this player (it should still better my current player), and 4) I can still use my Ah! 4000 for redbook, so no concerns about the Pioneer's redbook quality.

Wrt redbook, though, I could keep to the same number of sources with a new DVD-V/DVD-A player and a new SACD player that can replace the Ah! for redbook, but I'd still have the 18 cables issue (yes, maybe it bothers me more than it does other folks), and I would think I'd be paying more for 2 such players versus purchasing the 47A. As such, a combined player could get me into the game until we start seeing digital out support.

Doug

 

[Jeff PB]

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pi...,21653,00.html