***Official Xbox Next Discussion Thread - Broadcast Launch 3.12.05 Thread*** (1 Viewer)

[Ken Chui]

The 360 will utilize a 12X dual-layer DVD-ROM drive; games will be on DVD-9 discs. The PS3's proposed disc format (originally Blu-ray) may be revised, given Sony and Toshiba's recent discussions for a joint HD disc format. Will developers ever come close to filling either format's capacity? I don't know, but the PS3 disc should offer greater flexibility. As far as I'm concerned, more space = more options.

Having a HD format for movies could sway future customers in the PS3's direction. DVD playback on the PS2 was a selling point for many, as this was their first DVD player. Could the PS3 do for HD movies what the PS2 did for SD DVDs? It's too early to predict how consumers will respond to the proposed HD DVD format (assuming talks between Sony and Toshiba go well), but having this capability does make it more appealing budget-wise for J6P.

Most of our questions regarding the PS3 and Nintendo's "Revolution" should be answered next week (hopefully).

 

[Brian Kidd]

They haven't mentioned a cost for the online component of the the 360, but since Live has made them a passle of money on the original Xbox, I can't imagine them giving the service away for free on the 360.

As for the HD video content, etc. it basically will stream videos, etc. from your PC if it's networked and will allow for CD ripping (to WMA, of course)to the HDD just like the current generation machine. It seems like the main difference between the 360 and the Xbox with the Media Extender is that MS is forcing all of its publishers to make their games at least 720p compatible. Right now, very few games take advantage of the HD output capabilities of the Xbox. Some MS person (I wish I could remember who) said to think of the 360 as a "media amplifier" instead of a media center, ala the Media Center PCs; meaning you can send media through the 360 to be displayed on a television, but it won't actually store said media (except for the aforementioned WMA files.)

It's kind of a missed opportunity, IMO. The current Xbox makes a great Media Center once it's modded. The hardware on the 360 is more than capable of doing the job.

 

[Ken Chui]

True, but not totally unexpected. Production budgets are expected to increase twofold, threefold, maybe higher with this next generation of games. Development times will be longer (artists need more time to construct models, programming will be more complex, even with middleware tools, etc.). I read somewhere that roughly one game out of every ten released today actually turn a profit; raising prices is one way to ensure a better ROI.

Publishers are trying to acclimatize us to higher prices by releasing $60 games on the market (even though they are special/limited editions of higher-profile titles).

Video gaming has always been an expensive hobby. We've become spoiled by the flood of $15-20 new releases in recent years (although most are subpar in content and gameplay). If you want the latest and greatest, expect to pay a premium, otherwise, just hold out a bit for the inevitable price drop.

 

[Jay Mitchosky]

I agree with most of the comments above. Underwhelming "launch", but to be expected if MTV is behind it. Having a model come up with the unit in a bag? Come on. But the industrial design of the system is phenomenal. Very sleek and sexy. Certainly a different physical approach then the original. I agree that the white is a little unusual for a color choice, but fans seemed to be pretty hot on that design with the limited edition Panzer (?) Xbox.

So far as wireless is concerned I like that it's fully integrated. Presumably MS has a wireless headphone solution to go along with it. Zero mention of internal hard drive as far as I saw. But lots about media capability so I have to imagine it's still in there (at least as an option as some sites have reported).

I don't think it's fair to make any real comment about graphics ability as very little was shown. Quick flashes and of those how many were actually in-game? They should have put more emphasis on that part of the presentation, instead of making it a rock video with the Killers and showing a "pimped out" original Xbox. :rolleyes

Still excited about the launch, though.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Wireless controllers are probably going to be a standard for all of the next-gen consoles. I'm curious, though, how you can have multiple consoles with wireless controllers in the same room. Also, are they using RF like the WaveBird or what?

The "360" is, like many have said, because PS3 sounds better than XBox 2, but it also plays into their whole "ring" idea and the connectivity stuff.

The PS3 is rumored to be more powerful than the XBox 360 in the same way the XBox was more powerful than the PS2. We'll see next week.

Solely on features, I think the XBox 360 will have the best variety, the PS3 will have the most raw power, and the Revolution will be the most unique. I'll end up buying them all.

 

[Michael Ballack]

Me too. I love to have the option to buy all games that I want. It also allows you to not get caught up in the stupid microsoft vs sony vs nintendo battles.

 

[Raasean Asaad]

Ken I have to disagree, You haven't seen anything close to what those hardware features can produce. I do game on my PC and its high-end enough to run any game at a high enough level without me having to look at the box.

Those 3 3.2 Ghz multhreaded cores matched to a 48 pipeline pixel shader that can throw around vertices like nothing else out there....boy oh boy, those pix you've been looking at have been running on dev hardware that only has 2 cores running. Just wait a bit and you'll see some magic.

 

[WadeB]

Although I'm no J6P (even if I curretly do have a J6P budget) the ability to be a good HD DVD player would definitely push me toward the PS3. Actually I'm really looking forward to getting Hidef DVDs, and if I can get a player that's also a great gaming console, then bonus!

 

[Matt C]

I have to agree that the MTV special was crap, so much so that it actually diminished my excitement for the 360 (don't worry, it's back again ) But I also understand that this special was not intended for me, but for the current generation that is all into the MTV-rot-your-mind-from-the-inside-with-flashing-lights-and-bad-music mentality (IMO). It wasn't meant to give a good look at the system, but to create a connection between Xbox 360 and current popular(?) music and hollywood star parties within the impressionable minds of the youth market (i apologize for stereotyping, but it's really not hard to see that this had to be a goal for the show). According to an article I read (I think it was on IGN, i'm not sure), 8 out of 10 people the writer talked to were there to see the Killers, not for the Xbox 360, and some didn't even know what it was or that it was being debuted! Furthermore, between the dizzying-fast clips shown of the games, watching it on standard cable, on my friend's standard def television, I can't allow myself to make any conclusion on the graphics quality of the next system. Looking at the specs, and comparing to the first Xbox, I can see that there is INCREDIBLE potential for some crazy-looking games in the near future, and that will be up to the software developers.

I really wish I could afford to purchase all three next-gen systems (I really wanted to for the current generation!). Unfortunately, I live on close to minimum wage, and after my home theater hobby (addiction ), it leaves next to nothing for my video game hobby, so whatever console I choose will have to be the ONE that has the most games I want to play, and the most bang for my buck. I won't even mention how long I've been saving so that I can afford a 30 inch HDTV to take advantage of the next generation of video games and DVD... But believe me, I don't feel as though I have a single thing to complain about, and I'm loving these two hobbies more and more every day

Oh, by the way, that video-game timeline at the beginning of the show... pathetic, just pathetic

 

[Doug Miller]

Ken --

Yes, PC gaming has come along way (along way without me by the way,) but it will be interesting to see the fallout of E3.

Plus, I don't know many people with leather reclining sofas infront of their computers, so until my PC has that, I'll stick with the XBox.

Doug

 

[Blu]

I felt underwhelmed.

I really wanted to see some kind of revolutionary game to go with this launch.

There is a lot of time left before it launches so we shall see.

 

[Mark Shannon]

Either I don't know much about computers, or I'm just an idiot, but doesn't that seem a little small? I mean, my computer video cards carry 256mb apiece of RAM.

 

[Massimo N]

I'm not a technical expert, but here my understanding of the DRAM on the GPU.

10MB is quite a bit considering this is ram on the GPU, not like traditional memory. A similar analogy is the L1/L2 Cache on the CPU. My 2300+ AMD64 CPU only has 512k of embedded RAM ... 10MB is HUGE. This technique allowed ATI to increase the bus speed from the current generation's (X800 and GeForce 6800) 30 GB/sec to an astonishing 256GB/sec!

A quote from the TEAMXBOX overview (which is great overview of the system)states:

"The Xbox 360 graphics subsystem includes 10 MB of embedded DRAM GPU to use it as a frame buffer. By using this embedded RAM, which is similar to a processor's cache memory, the Xbox 360 will be able to run games at 720p (1280x720) and 1080i (1920x1080) HDTV resolutions with full screen anti-aliasing and almost no impact on framerate. "

Quite impressive

Edit: I changed my CPU cache from MB to K. I wish it had that much onboard cache :b

 

[Christ Reynolds]

from this link.
does this statistic bother anyone else? either microsoft is lying about the TERAFLOP performance, or they are calculating the value from another criterion. this value cannot be right.

CJ

 

[David Williams]

I think Microsoft made a huge mistake by showing footage created on dev. hardware. Shouldn't they have working consoles some six months before launch? If you're going to sell the public on next generation graphics, you actually have to *show* them next gen graphics.

 

[Jean D]

Maybe they wanted Sony to underestimate the final outcome of the 360. And when people actually see it in person, their jaws drop.

 

[Chris Bardon]

Skipped the mtv special, but what I've read online sounds pretty cool. I'm a little worried about the wireless controller standard though. I have all of my controllers on extension cords now, but I definitely like the fact that I don't have to keep paying for batteries to power my game controllers, deal with weak/low battery problems etc. I like the idea of the rechargable battery pack with a docking station though-I could probably be convinced if it's not too expensive. Of course, the other option is 2 sets of NiMH batteries...

Doesn't really sound like a quantum leap though, but I REALLY like the idea of being able to access the dashboard at any point. I know I've wanted to get at it a few times to delete stuff off the hard drive, and don't really like that I had to pop out whatever was in there to do it.

It's also nice to see that everything will support progressive/HD, but then I read on IGN that you'll need to buy a separate HD kit to use it. If you're trying to push high def gaming, why not include the HD hookups directly on the console (and IN THE BOX)!

Three new consoles to buy before next Christmas though (plus a new HDTV to play em on). I think I'm going to need to ask for a raise...

 

[Matt C]

I agree. Considering that one of the MAJOR selling points for the next-gen consoles in high-def capabilities, it bothers me that the high-def cable w/ optical audio isn't included... Thankfully, this could still change before they hit the stores.

 

[Ken Chui]

It's possible that Microsoft could include HD cables with the standard unit, but seeing as accessories are a secondary revenue stream for the manufacturer, and the installed HDTV base (of all households) in the US at ~10% currently, something tells me that it will be sold seperately (at least initially), not unlike the High Definition AV Pack available for the Xbox. I expect composite cables to be a standard inclusion. This is Microsoft we're talking about, not Goodwill.

 

[Matt C]

Wait a second... You mean... Microsoft is in this for the money, not just to provide gamers with their every dream!? What has the world come to!?

And yes, I must admit that you made complete sense.