*** Official TROY Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Darren Haycock]

Actually, I believe the horse part is in The Aeneid, not the Odyssey. Odyssey is basically just Odysseus trying to get home.

 

[Jeff_Standley]

I went to this movie on friday and came out in the good but not great crowd also. Although I didnt really have high hopes for this movie as it approached release time I still expected it to be pretty good. I loved Gladiator and compare all movies of this type to Braveheart (like anyone of course) but the hype that this movie was trying to generate did not get to me.
:star: Spoilers may folow. (but you are in the movie discussion thread):star:
From the first scene when Brad Pitt comes out and fights the big guy for Agememnon the cg looked goofy and not very well done. That pulled me out for a second but still cool, the little jump and stab move by Pitt was kinda cool. Then about ten minutes later we get the same patented move by Pitt again and it lost all credibility with me. from that point I knew that we would see the move several times through out the movie.
Brad Pitt's acting was borderline terrible and I agree with the post before saying he was grossly miscast for this role. Being a huge Brad Pitt fan I was disapointed with his performance in this movie.
The fight scene between Hector and Achilles looked so choreographed it was shamefull. This scene was straight out of a Michael Bay film, horrible head shots, fast camera action, rediculous over posing for the camera for that cool shot, the move where Brad Pitt had the spear behind his head and stabs at Hector was laughable and how manty times do we have to watch these guys spin there damn shields around and around, the cool factor of these moves is discredited when you see it again 20 seconds later. Remember the jump and thrust move? We see it hear at least twice....again. The editing was awful leaving Bana and Pitt standing there for seconds in defense of the next hit while we watch the next blow being delivered. Brad Pitt is capable of much more than this performance.
The Hector and Patroclus duel started out good and then went stupid the minute we see 100,000 soldiers stop fighting to watch this one battle among thousands being fought.
The score drove me absolutely crazy in parts, im not sure where it was (I think after Hector is slain) but the lady (opra-esque rip-off-of-Gladiator) singer mad me cringe. And to think this guy did the score for Braveheart :frowning:
I will say that I liked Eric Bana in this movie and a few others are worth mentioning for the only good perfomances (O'toole, Cox).

Well at least we only have 3 weeks before Harry Potter.

 

[MikeAlletto]

I saw this friday night. One of the things that I didn't like is that the whole thing reaked of fake drama. If that makes any sense. A lot of the closeups had the actors doing these really wierd looking facial expressions that didn't fit into what was going on at the moment. A few time my girlfriend and I actually chuckled at some of them. It just didn't fit. Other than that distraction I thought it was an ok movie.

 

[Michael Harris]

The horse is in the beginning of the Odyssey. One of the may reasons for Odysseus's plight is his duplicity in the creation of the horse and leading the sacking of Troy thus pissing off the gods. No slight to Virgil but he cribbed from the best.

 

[TheLongshot]

Well, there was Helen as well.

Actually, one of my biggest problems with the film was changing the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus. In the poem, they weren't "cousins", but lovers. It would have made Achilles' rage make more sense if they played it that way. Instead, it really comes off strange, particularly when it is known why he was killed.

As for Pitt's performance, I personally thought it was pretty solid for the most part. It was only when he had to act emotional that he had problems.

Jason

 

[Phil_L]

Yes, then and at several other points. I did like the movie, however. Brad Pitt's performance was grating at times, but he was tolerable overall. I went with 4 others, 3 women and 1 man. Both of us guys liked it, while the three women disliked it (despite the eye candy so transparently aimed at the female audience).

I, like others, was surrounded by gaggles of slack jawed yokels, many of whom were convinced that Brad Pitt played a character named Troy. Maybe it will inspire some of them to read a book. Good overall, not great.

 

[Nathan V]

Matt Stone, pseudo-character development refers to character development that is shitty.

I'm referring to all-too cliche scenes in movies where somebody starts talking about how their father died when they were kids, etc. Scenes where you can smell the writer thinking, "okay, this character will die in thirty minutes, how can I draw out some cheap sympathy from the audience?" Real character development, for me at least, involves observing characters do stuff largely unrelated to the plot. Moments that allow us to observe these people and their behavior; to learn about them, and feel for them. An example would be Travis Bickle's narration in Taxi Driver (like all Scorsese, a character-based movie, not a story-based one). Bickle telling us about how he sees the world ('I am God's lonely man,' etc etc). Another example would be all the various interactions between people in Michael Mann's Heat. Lost in Translation is perhaps the newest and best example of a movie that offers ONLY character development; there is no real 'plot.'

In Troy, there is character development, but it sure as hell doesn't have the resonance of the movies I just mentioned. Of course, Troy isn't trying to be Heat, but the point is, I didn't care one bit about any of the characters. That took me out of the movie. Eric Bana spending every third scene staring at his baby reeks of cheap sentiment. The endless shots of his wife acting worried don't help either. We don't know squat about her; why should we sympathize with her? She can't exist only to add resonance to the Bana character, especially if their relationship is never explored properly. That's sloppy writing.
For example, Brad Pitt. What do we know about Achilles? What type of person is he? The movie has obligatory scenes sketching out his disdain for authority and hunger for fame after death. Then, for the remainder of the film, this one-note persona (where's the arc, dammit?) stomps around half naked spouting cool-sounding but ultimately meaningless lines. Let's not even get into Brad's horrendous delivery of said lines. In the poem, Achilles is, I must say, not too complex of a character, but somehow it works. I was fascinated by the guy. (he was also not the main character, it's an ensemble work.) But in the film, I was not moved to see Brad get shot up at the end. (and they really should've provided some explanation for the shot to the heel, as it's a pretty dumb place to shoot somebody, unless that person was dipped in the river styx) All I was thinking at that moment, besides the fact that I wasn't moved, was that the scene sucked stylistically. No close-ups? No slo-mo? No interesting angles? Come on, Wolfie!

When Maximus died in Gladiator, the scene had emotional resonance for me. Not a lot, but the feeling was there. Maximus was a well rounded character, largely thanks to Russell's excellent acting and a serviceable script. I felt like I had just seen the last years of this man's life, and it felt meaningful. The character was well rounded. Say what will you will about the film, but something was done right, or I wouldn't have responded to the scene.

Another thing that bothered me about Troy was the stylistics. Usually in movies like this you can count on excellent visuals and cool battles, etc. This is not the case with Troy. The cinematography is surprisingly subpar. As a photographer, I pay much attention to visuals, and love seeing interesting angles, lighting, and editing techniques. I didn't see any of that. I saw endless, low-contrast, unoriginal images. Every conversation consists of numerous centered head-level close ups. In fact, almost every time Wolfie cuts to somebody who's talking or reacting to something, it's a standard close-up. This is boring. I want to see low-angle stuff, I want to see three-quarter views, ECU's of eyes and such, wider shots, tilts, creative compositions, and the like. About halfway through the movie, I said to myself, "If I see one more shot of some actor's head trying to look meaningful while looking at the edge of the screen, I'm gonna kill somebody." I'll have you know nobody died in the theater, but boy, I just about had enough of the shitty cinematography.

Even in the battles, the editing gave us little sense of spacial dynamics or direction. We are simply presented with handheld 'you-are-there' material, which is nice, but I do also want to know what the hell's happening. Another annoying element about the battles was how quickly they were over. There was a lot of build up, before every conflict, but the action always ended quickly. I know 'battle fatigue' is dangerous, but this is The Iliad. This is the ultimate war story, featuring one of the most badass characters in all of literature. I'm not going to say it any other way; I wanted to see material that would make Black Hawk Down feel like Hogan's Heroes.

When I saw battles that were amalgams of LOTR and Braveheart, except with all the style and heart removed, not to mention CGI only a little better than the Mummy Returns, uh, let's just say I realized my expectations were a little too high.

There's other stuff I want to talk about, but this post is long enough. Don't worry though, I'll be back with more

All that said, Troy is not a bad movie. But it definitely isn't a good one. I feel bad defecating all over this film when it seems like most people enjoyed it. Oh well.

It did have its good points, though. Brian Cox was great fun to watch, and Peter O'Toole was terrific (no surprise there). And the sets and costumes were quite good. I don't know if they were accurate, but no mind, they looked it.

Anyway, I don't know. I'm not explaining myself well enough. I'm much better at talking. Hopefully I got some points across. Please ask me what the hell I'm talking about, and I'll gladly try to explain myself.

Regards,
Nathan

 

[ChrisMatson]

I agree with many of the above points, but the story does not lend itself to a study in character development. I hope that most people have some idea of the story going in--similar assumptions were necessary for Mel Gibson's latest movie.

Who didn't know that Achilles gets it in the heel? It seemed like a fluke shot to me. I don't what more set up could have been done.

There were too many "soap opera style" close-ups that were unforgivable.

Overall, I enjoyed the movie but I doubt I will revisit it in the theater or on DVD.

 

[Sam Favate]

It seemed to me that someone at Warner saw the Lord of the Rings and said "What can we do with that software?"

The combination of Massive-style battle scenes and sequences lifted from Gladiator seemed like the bulk of the movie. I did not enjoy it.

 

[Holadem]

Some thoughts:

My screening wasn't very good, terribly out of focus, I feel like I missed out on some great visuals.

The score was a big offender on this one. The first Saving Private Ryan like landing did not work for me because the score was too heroic, too quickly.

Most definitely. I thougth the same thing, having watched the Perfect Storm quite a few times.

I am a fan of Pitt, but he has done better jobs.

Brian Cox was fantastic.

I wish Odysseus had had a larger role. This is... Odysseus fer crissakes.

The Hector vs Achilles fight was excellent, worth the price of admission IMO. It didn't rely on quick cuts as much *cough*gladiator*cough*, you could actually see what was going on.

Hector was the most charismatic character. I was hoping they would skip his gruesome fate :frowning:.

In the end, the movie delivered (:star::star::star: of 4), which all we can ask for... still, I can't shake the feeling that they played it too safe.

--
H

 

[Scott Weinberg]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but those who'd like to hear a good portion of Gabriel Yared's original Troy score should go to www.gabrielyared.com , click on 'news' and than pick through several different tracks from what WOULD have been a damn fine score.

Damn test audiences.

 

[Gruson]

I prefer the Yared score as well. I like the Achilles theme a lot.

 

[Ken Chan]

I thought they were intentionally going for that slo-mo look, and of course, slo-mo ain't real

Rose Byrne as Briseis was more appealing to me than Diane Kruger as Helen. Oddly, they showed a trailer for Wicker Park, which has the same two actresses with Josh Hartnett, although I didn't recognize either one.

I was looking through the credits trying to figure out who was who, and for a while I confused Briseis as Polydora -- I had already forgotten the character name. (IMDb has the names listed in a goofy order.) But who was Polydora? In The Illiad, Achilles eventually falls for someone named Polyxena....

 

[Patrick Sun]

Was it my hearing or was Achilles pronouncing Briseis "Per-SAY-us" through the whole film?

 

[John Medeiros]

Eric Bana ruled. It was alot of fun and reminded me of the first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan stretched into 2.5 hours.

PS...loved the big rolling fireballs too.

John

 

[Ken Chan]

bre-SAY-us and per-SAY-us are pretty close. (Apparently, Briseis is the daughter of a guy named Briseus)

I always thought it was PRI-am, not PRE-am. And I've always said men-e-LAY-us, not men-e-louse, although I guess that might be right.

 

[Kenneth_C]

I just saw it, and must admit that I was underwhelmed. I tried to accept the changes to the original myth -- though the shortness of the seige was a little hard to swallow. (And, even leaving out the gods, I think they should've found some way to include Cassandra in the proceedings.)

My biggest problem was with Brad Pitt. And I happen to like the guy, generally. But he was sorely miscast in the part, imo. Acting ability aside, I just never bought that he was this great warrior that could inspire legions of men to follow him. His heroic poses seemed to be just that: poses. It's an intangible thing, and I really can't explain it. But I didn't care how beefed up he was; I just never got the "hero" vibe from him.

Eric Bana, on the other hand, had exactly the quality that Pitt was missing. He'd appear in a scene, and I'd immediately focus on him. His bearing, his body language, his (for lack of a better word) "presence", made me believe that he was a prince, a leader, & a great warrior.

This is something that goes beyond technical acting ability -- or the months spent with personal trainers and fight choreographers. Bana had it (as did Sean Bean in his few scenes, or Peter O'Toole in a different way). Pitt didn't, for me. As a result, the movie just didn't work the way it was intended to.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I still think Eric Bana looks like the older brother of Corey Feldman.

 

[KyleC]

I saw it tonight and here's my review. I've never reviewed anything but I felt like I had to do this movie:

First off let me say that I am a big fan of war movies and especially the epic films.

The main flaw of this film is not plot, acting, or bad directing it's time. How David Benioff* can bastardize history so bad and yet still have a running time of 163 minutes is a mystery. The pacing of this film is one of the worst in recent years. The cycle of five minutes of action followed by forty-five minutes of dialogue perpetuated itself throughout the entire picture.

Another main flaw of this movie is characters. There is a problem throughout the movie that you just don't really seem to care about any of the characters. There is one exception and that is Hector (Bana). Eric Bana did an incredible job with what he had to work with. You get the sense that he is not only fighting the Greek army, but the quicksand-like atmosphere of the movie. He give his all in this movie, and we pull for him in the end.

There just isn't enough to keep anyone interested in this 163 minute "epic." Whether it be over used grand sweeping pans of the thousands of CGI soldiers or the scores of scenes with a naked Brad Pitt. There will be inevitable comparisons between this movie and that the much more sucessful Lord of the Rings, but Troy never fully envisions the legend. Instead what we are treated to is more wooden than the Trojan horse.

 

[Kirk Tsai]

For basketball fans, does Eric Bana look kinda like Stojakovic or is it just me?