The Matrix Reloaded (2003) (1 Viewer)

[Paul_Scott]

Dan, could you or someone else clue me in to what points TMR may or may not ivalidate?

i hate to ask, since you guys are discussing the material at a post graduate level and i'm shoehorning a freshman question in-

but i've only seen the first film once.

i'm resisiting buying it, because it left me pretty cold, but eventually i would like to see TMR for myself.

the big problem here is-
i don't want to bone up on the universe in the first film, only to have the second say "nah we were just pulling your leg with that $#%t. this what i'm going to tell you now is the 'real' score.
which invariably leads one to wonder...ok now what are they going to invalidate in the third film?



also, i don't know if anybody caught it or not, but Charlie Rose devoted the whole hour to discussing the movie yesterday.

these are two points brought up that may be spoilers about Revolutions

Keanu says that the films are ultimately about Love and compassion, and then a 20-something arts editor for Newsweek feels that the end film is not going to be man v machine with one side being the ultimate victor, but rather some kind of balance will be struck...because the W bros. philosophical leanings tend to fetishize balance.


also, should i assume that Keanu is a program himself?
(neo being an anagram of One...seems to be kind of an obvious clue) is this going to be the kind of big reveal/twist in the next film.

i have to admit, some of the concept sound interesting, some sound pretnetious and others seem banal (if true).


one last question- is this another case, like the other major sci-fi trilogy, where core, most intense fans, are getting wrapped up in the univerise, and fetishizing or rationalizing banal narrative devices and Deus ex machina, more because they love the style of the package, rather than whats in the package being indeed so strong narratively that it doesn't merit this criticism?

thanks for indulging me.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

4 hours of sleep. No complaints. I woke up thinking about it.

Is Neo a program?

Is Persephone an old "version" of Trinity?

Is Agent Smith everything he appears?

An interesting turnaround? Now, Morpheus has to believe Neo for a change.

As for the choice Neo had to make, I think it was a false choice. It was a set-up.

I love the day after a BIG film opens. The discussion board is always so much fun.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Paul_Scott]

Chuck,
hence the significance of the Kiss?

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Paul,
It builds on what is in the first film. It doesn't invalidate it. It merely expounds on it. Assumptions from the first film will be cast aside.

I recommend rewatching The Matrix. I like it more every time I watch it.

And I agree that the end of the film will not be a generic Hollywood ending. That would be very anti-climactic. After The Second Renaissance, I really think they are going somewhere different with this story.

I hope they are.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Lee L]

Wow, I came out of this movie last night with my mind totally swimming with questions and countering hypotheses, now I read this thread and it is only worse. Certainly, there are as many levels in this story as you can imagine. Maybe I tempered my expectations reading the reviews but this movie was everything I could have wanted. I will definitely need to see it a few more times to understand the stuff with the architect.

I can totally see the whole symbiosys theme running through everything. After watching the Second Rennnaisance I & II, I was left with a somewhat depressed feeling that the humans in the Matrix almost deserved what they got. After watching the councillor talk about the machines that supply heat and power for Zion, I had to think that somewhere in all this the anwser is balance.

At the screening I went to, right when Neo scooped Trinity up, the sound system blew up and the center channel amp overloaded or went into protection mode or something so we had no center for the next 5 or 10 minutes and missed the dialog between Neo and Trinity while he rescusitated her. At least when they were back on the ship we could hear the reveb in the surround speakers. After that they switched to 2 channel for another 5 minutes then finally back to DD goodness. I do have a free pass now though.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

This will always be a divisive film. If you didn't like Reloaded, I HIGHLY doubt you'll like Revolutions. If you liked Reloaded, that STILL doesn't mean you'll like Revolutions.

I understand the criticisms as well. Skimming a few of the reviews, I can easily see how this film created those complaints. It IS pretentious. It is overblown. It is pop philosophy. And if it doesn't work for someone, I imagine it would be rather dull and/or unsettling.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Patrick Sun]

This is the first film in quite a long time where I woke up the next morning, and wanted to see the film again. And lucky for me, I will be seeing it this afternoon (as a "work-related" activity, no less).

Here's my new take on the Rave scene: To quote The Beastie Boys - "You have to fight...for your right...to PAAAAARRRTTAAYYYYY!" I think that's an easier way to think about that scene.

The choice that Neo was given by the Architect boils downs to:

1. The Matrixed Rebooted totally (in order to the programming to be Reloaded with enhancements/tweaks given the new permutation/development of code that has been created from the spark of artificial life inside the Matrix world, i.e. an offshoot of chaos theory applied to the Matrix)

or

2. The Matrix Patched (temporarily, i.e. with only 24 hours to get it done) with a chance of the humans gaining a more symbiotic relationship with the machines that gives both sides control of their destiny.

Neo chose door number 2 in light of the somewhat irrational notion of being guided by love and the quest for physical/mental/spiritual completeness that comes from the amalgamation of 2 strong elements and turns them into something stronger together (the "whole" being stronger than the sum of the "parts").

The choices themselves aren't necessarily important, but it's the journey of "how" and "why" the choices were made that changes the course of events at a crucial time where humans have a shot of gaining equal footing with the machines.

Are our choices just a matter of our programming (pre-destiny), or is there a spark of true intelligence that weighs all of the pro's and con's to arrive at the choice? Do we truly control our own destiny, or is destiny in control of us?

The hint at the end where Neo exhibits Matrix-like abilities outside the Matrix does make for the Matrix-within-the-Matrix scenario very possible. It gives off that nifty "dreams meets artificial intelligence" vibe, or goes into that world of "do robots/machines dream".

 

[JeffLl]

I really enjoyed Reloaded. I can't wait to see it again tomorrow! I really have few ideas on it so tahnk god there's already plenty theories to read.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Why do people miss this? Even if they didn't get it from the architect, Neo says straight out, that they have 24 hours until Zion is destroyed.

Wow - we can't seem to get consensus on anything.

MikeRS Neo made the 24 hour statement on the Neb before it was destroyed. After destroying the sentinels he fell into a coma. We don't know how much time has passed since he was picked up by the other ship.

The captain of that other ship stated that there was a slaughter. Destroying 5 ships is not a slaughter. Destroying a city of 250,000 people is.

I'm not convinced on this point. Will need to see the movie again to be sure.

Random questions/thoughts:

1) Is the world of Zion and the sentinels real?
2) Is Neo a program?
3) Has Smith been able to cross over into the real world?
4) What is the Oracle's true purpose? Why would a machine want to help people?

This movie makes you question everything.

Awesome.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I can help, Lou.

1) ?
2) ?
3) Yes
4) ?

But not much

And the number for each "remade" Zion has been 24. 17 males, the One (for a total of 18) and 6 females. Sucks for the women I guess

Lots of questions. And yes, one of the counter-attack pipes was (almost) wiped out. They still aren't in Zion yet.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Patrick Sun]

Oh, was Jet Li supposed to be playing the Oracle's bodyguard?

I really liked the Keymaker, he was cool under fire, and didn't turn into an overtly scared person during their getaway scene. He was definitely handy to have around in certain situations.

 

[Dave Smith]

One, hopefully simple question:

What's happened to Tank? Unless I'm in a Matrix of my own, he survived the first movie, right? Yet Link and his wife talk about him as if he was dead ("I've lost two brothers to that ship..")

So what's the story?

 

[Peter Kim]

I recall hearing that he asked for too much money.

I guess he died as a result of injuries suffered in the first Matrix, during the 6 month lapse between the 1st and the 2nd.

 

[dan fritzen]

what I am pondering now is if one of the major themes is choice and destiny and they are fighting for freedom of choice ( they freed more people in the last 6 months from the matrix than the last 6 years) How can Morpheus believe everything happens for a reason so blindly in the real world too? Is that not a paradox?

 

[Romier S]

Any tips for dealing with these people?

Put your popcorn down, get up and knock the living fucking sense out of the asshole. What can I say, I'm just confrontational about my movie watching experience.

 

[Gregory E]

And one more thing. Do you all think that the average joe is really out here discussing how fake the CGI looked......Now I know that many of us that frequent this forum have a very critical eye and discerning ear when it comes to our hobby. But, get real. Tom, Dick and Harry could care less when they walk out of the theater with Joe.

Diallo,
That is BS man. I saw the movie with a friend who is not into home theater at all and doesn't even own a DVD player. And the first thing he said when it was over was how bad the CGI looked. So yes, Tom, Dick, and Harry probably noticed. Don't act the average movie goer is dumb.....

I think 5-7 years ago, that kind of CGI would have been acceptable. But the bar has been raised so high with the likes of The Lord of the Rings. And they hyped these new Matrix movies up to make it sound like the special effects were going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Some parts of Reloaded were. Others parts didn't come close.

As I said before, I enjoyed the movie. But some parts were a little disappointing.

 

[Daren Welsh]

Something's been bugging me since I watched Reloaded last night. In The Matrix, didn't they remove all the plugs from their bodies, except for the one in the back of the head and the one on the arm? I'll have to watch the Matrix again tonight to double-check, but I thought I saw them removing the plugs from Neo in his rehabilitation period.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Just a suggestion: I encourage folks to utilize the "member ignore" feature if they are really fed up by certain members (rather than being drawn into non-productive, thread-derailing sparring fests that are frowned upon on the HTF).

Simply click on the member's Profile icon, and on their profile page, click "Add so-and-so to your Ignore List" inside the rectangular box at the top of the page.

Life's too short to go over the same contentious ground among inflexible points of view.

 

[ChadM]

Random thoughts the morning after:

I thought the CGI looked good but then again I was way too close to the screen. To me it looked as good as when the elf jumps off of the cave troll in LOTR. I think some people ruin there enjoyment looking for such things.

Persephone is freaking HOT!

I do not think Zion is a matrix within a matrix. If Smith can come into the real world and Smith infected Neo, then why couldn't Neo bring some powers back to the real world.

I feel that the dance party scene was a tad too long and that the Burly Brawl was NOT. That is an amazingly well choreographed scene in which the intensity kept getting raised and raised and raised and raised.

Persephone is freaking HOT!

Car chase - words cannot describe how awesome that was. That was the end all be all.

Neo flying was sweet!

Persphone is freaking HOT!


My only problem is how many more viewings to go to (I would also like to see X2 again).

EDIT - 10pm showing theater 90% full, about half of which stayed through the very end.

 

[Jeff Savage]

Ok I saw this movie last night and I came away with some different thoughts so bear with me here:

First my most favorite line of the movie:

"I love swearing in French, it is like wiping your ass with silk" I mean come on how cool is that

Second on the whole end deal I agree that Zion was not destroyed only the five ships or counter attack force (if you stayed to watch the trailer then you would have seen proof of this). The body that Agent Smith infected was the only person left and was in a coma after the early release of the EMP (remember this early EMP blast was the reason the 5 ships were disabled) humm so is this infected human part machine? Also I saw the end differently I assumed that it was the ship that rescued Neo et al that blasted an EMP pluse to disable the machines (NOT NEO) and Neo was affected the same way as the Agent Smith guy ie coma because he is more integrated in the Matrix now. In other words Neo doesn't have any "real world" powers it was just timing to make it look like he did (does).

I could be off base but I bet that in the final movie Neo will have to become part of the Matrix (thus killing his real world body) to destroy it. It seems that a story line like this would fit with the overall animae nature of the films.