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The Matrix Reloaded (2003) (2 Viewers)

Greg*go

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
941
My brain hurts.

It seemed like no one stopped to listen to Agent Smith either. He told Neo that they were a lot alike, but then was never able to get into detail. That plus seeing the teaser at the end leads me to believe we are currently missing a major part of the agent Smith angle.

And I think Smith had the other 2 agents attack Neo in the beginning. Which, as it turned out later, didn't make much sense.

A definite 2nd viewing is in order.
 

Brian Ford

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Messages
72
I saw the movie at the Lennox 24 tonight, and it was a mad house. A MAD HOUSE. 24 screens, all showing the same movie. Multiple showtimes all through the night, and showed no signs of slowing down. The crowd wasn't electric, but they responded at all the right moments.

The good news was that the showing was at 10:00, not 12:00 like Attack of the Clones. The other good news was that we got to wait inside this time. More good news was that we barely even waited in line. The even better news was that they played older trailers to keep us occupied, like Gladiator and Dark City. They even had a showing of the orginal Matrix movie on the big screen before 10:00 rolled around.

The bad news? Half the audience walked out of theater before watching the Revolutions teaser, but I doubt many of them even knew about it. After that teaser, my mind shutdown.

It was cool.
 

Chris

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 4, 1997
Messages
6,788
If the final construct of the movie is accurate, what does it matter if they are alive or dead? They are all in the end, alive at the will of some outer matrix we do not yet understand which posits that all of what we have seen, including Zion, is but imagined within side of it.. so that which is imagined within that frontier could be manipulated as seen fit.

In other words: does any of what we have seen really matter at all? :)
 

Diallo B

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
1,085
I'm not even going to debate this issue after I state this comment. Or maybe I will if someone has a compelling arguement.

I fully understood the dialog and the point of the Architect and Oracle scenes. I hate to say it but I think that too many people want to be spoon fed when it comes to movies. I was totally intriuged with the plot and story line of the movie. The action was nice and all but I found it to be less impressive than the ideas that were floating around. I especially did not care for what I will call, 'The Matrix Horns' when a bullet time, slow-mo or 360 angle effect took place.

I think many peoples problem with the dialog was that it was EXTREMELY heavy handed. I went in with this expectation and was on the edge of my seat for most of the movie. This was not a movie for folks that need everything spelled out for them. I was never bored and I am quite perplexed that some of you were.

The crowd was electric and everyone in my immediate vicinity was just as into the whole movie as myself. I am glad that the Wachowski Brothers did not dumb the movie down. Also, I am sure that this will be one of those movies that become great with age. Especially after we see and UNDERSTAND Revolutions.

This was a great movie. I know I am going to see it again so that I can get it all straight. Earlier in this thread some people stated:

"Everyone who said they hated it didnt pay attention to everything because its all explained wether you understood it or not. There is a ton of story there which some didnt pay attention to."

"I know Ron mentioned in his review that the ideas are so convoluted that you can't figure out what is going on, and therefore lose interest; but I couldn't disagree more. The ideas regarding philosophy, etc are so interesting that they could be thought about for days. The story is still very personal even if it seems bogged down with more characters."

I completely concur with these statements. Folks, like the first movie stated, 'FREE YOUR MIND!!!'

"For me, the purpose of the rave scene was to show us a celebration of life for humans in this environment of Zion, and that was a macro-view of the human community in the face of battling for their lives against the machines. The micro-view interspliced with the rave scene was the love making between Neo and Trinity (so there is now the possibility of Trinity getting preggers if they want to go there in Revolutions)."

I think that this in one of the most unappreciated parts of the movie. I agree that it may have run 60-90 seconds too long. However, the point of the scene was to show a celebration of life and what the 'Zionites' wanted to preserve.

Once again, great film. I see this doing really well even with all of the hype unlike some recent movies that not even the Force could help to meet expectations.

djb
 

Doug R

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 26, 2000
Messages
786
Well Diallo, if you fully understand the oracle and architect scenes, can you please provide the cliff notes for us peons :)

thanks
 

Darcy Hunter

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
May 11, 1999
Messages
192
Just got back from seeing it... I won't review it here, but I definitely need to see it again. I Just want to share a few observations.

-While I think (like most of you here) that the "Burly Brawl" is a bit too long, it has some really cool stuff in it, and serves as both a way for Neo to test Smith's abilities, and for Smith to show the audience exactly how out of control he's getting.

-"Rave" scene went on too long, but also served a purpose. It felt like a giant, hedonistic, "end of the world" party.

-I liked how the living quarters in Zion were located around a deep cylinder, mimicking the giant pillars that the pods are housed around in the matrix.

-Watching the Animatrix shorts, "The Second Renaissance parts 1 and 2" gave me a warped veiw of what the relationship between man and machines is. I highly recommend watching these before seeing Reloaded again.

-Are they still in the matrix at the end? How did Neo do that? Did Agent Smith really give Neo some kind of power with the handshake?

-The stuff with The Architect was great, but I need to see it again. There was a lot of stuff to digest there.

-Like someone already mentioned (I think on this board),Reloaded feels like a big-budget post-apocalyptic, sci-fi version of "The Prisoner".
 

Chris

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djb -

I think you have to also realize that one of the great things about filmmaking is that we can all disagree without feeling as though someone is attacking our religion or anything, it is, after all, a movie. And those of us who critique it are not doing so because we are "idiots" "hate film" or "just don't get it" a lot of us didn't find it super convoluted as much as we did contradictory to the rules as setup within the first film.

And that's just a difference of opinion. In other words, it's not so much about making arguments with those in this thread who may disagree regarding the quality of the film, it's about discussing why artistic choices were made. Choices that I think we can agree were offputting to some, rewarding to others.

I fully understood the dialog and the point of the Architect and Oracle scenes. I hate to say it but I think that too many people want to be spoon fed when it comes to movies. I was totally intriuged with the plot and story line of the movie. The action was nice and all but I found it to be less impressive than the ideas that were floating around. I especially did not care for what I will call, 'The Matrix Horns' when a bullet time, slow-mo or 360 angle effect took place.
I'm glad you "fully understood" what they meant, because you may be the first.. in fact, I'm not sure how it is possible for you to fully understand what they meant.. or even if you are supposed to. In the end, when Neo stops the drones, it is hard to believe anything but that Zion, and this reality is inside yet another matrix, is it not? If so, then the Oracle, Artictect and others were but a contrivance upon a dream inside of a matrix residing inside of a matrix. Whatever they said would become a moot point, potentially intentional falsehoods to distract from the real reality, the one which imprisons the fakeness that is Zion, etc. inside of another matrix.. OR they are but computer programs playing their part.

I'm not saying people are bad for loving the film; I know a lot will. I think others are free to make their criticism of the film based on what they saw. After all, everyone paid their $8 or so, and they are entitled to their opinion in what they invested in. It's good to see a good mix of positive and negative views.. at least people are offerring feedback. But there isn't much need to have the implication that those who don't get it don't get it because it isn't spoonfed to us..

Some of us "get" what we see as the concept.. we just don't like the direction it's going. I also don't know where we get to have to compare with Star Wars, etc.. while both are sci-fi, I guess, it's not as though I spend my time comparing "Bruce Almighty" to "A Christmas Story" because they are both comedies. In general, people who liked the film and people who disliked the film are not "fools" or "idiots" they are just people with diverging points of view.. "Free Your Mind" :)
 

Diallo B

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
1,085
Oh,

And one more thing. Do you all think that the average joe is really out here discussing how fake the CGI looked. Many of the action scenes and the burly brawl in particular received applause where I was located. Of course, I noticed when characters looked CGI but none of the average movie goers cared. They just loved the jaw dropping action and effects. And honestly they were not THAT bad!

Now I know that many of us that frequent this forum have a very critical eye and discerning ear when it comes to our hobby. But, get real. Tom, Dick and Harry could care less when they walk out of the theater with Joe.

Think about how uneducated many of your friends are concerning how bad analog NTSC signals look compared to 480p, 720p and 1080i signals or the difference between FM Radio signal to noise ratio and Compact Disc signal to noise ratio. Don't even try to talk to them about receiver DAC's versus dvd/cd DAC's etc.

Keep in mind that the average movie goer is going to eat this movie up and come back for seconds, thirds, and fourths.

lol at many of you,

djb
 

Max Leung

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Sep 6, 2000
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4,611
I liked the film, a lot! Love the "twist" at the end. Or rather, the different twists, to use the plural!

I think the audience was a bit confused at the end though. The movie ended suddently, but that's okay with me. I and one quarter of the audience stayed to see the Revolutions trailer. The trailer didn't give too much away, if I think what will happen actually happens. :D

I should not have to give a spoiler warning for this next bit. You guys know better than to read this thread before watching the movie, right? :)

I like how it is "hinted" (if you call Neo being able to disable Sentinels in the "real" world a hint!) that the "real" world is in fact another Matrix...as a haven for those who could not accept the reality of the primary matrix. A place for goth kids to congregate, hence why it seems everyone in Zion loves dark places (or perhaps they can't be bothered to change the light bulbs) and heavy drumbeat/industrial music. Zion...what a dreary place to live. I would never be able to accept the programming of the Zion matrix! I think Neo is tired of the clubbing scene too. :D

I can now understand why the Wachowski brothers wanted Keannu to read "Introduction to Evolutionary Psychology". It's at the heart of the scene with what's-his-name (IMDB is NOT giving me the character's name, grrr) and Persephone. Although, it is a rather crude but fun few scenes.

Oh what the hell...just read Ebert's review. It's late, I'm tired, and I need a breather. :)
 

Diallo B

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
1,085
Well Diallo, if you fully understand the oracle and architect scenes, can you please provide the cliff notes for us peons
I will soon. However, I have to get to bed for traffic court in the morning. :frowning:

I wish I could get a manuscript or something so that I could explain it with the text here to support what I think was the conveyed message.

djb
 

Max Leung

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2000
Messages
4,611
Hmm, I like the Prisoner comparison made a few posts up. :emoji_thumbsup:

"I am not a number!"

"But Neo, you are the ONE!"

:D
 

Kevin Porter

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 10, 2002
Messages
948
Okay first off, the rave/sex scene were completely pointless and advanced nothing. The cake orgasm was embarassing to watch. But it did serve more of a purpose than the rave. Concerning Neo's powers in the Zion world, it can only be explained by...

A) The 11 carved on the human Agent Smith

B) Zion World is a layer of the Matrix

By the way, I'm completely confused about Zion. Is it destroyed and the Agent Smith human was the only survivor?
 

Kirk Tsai

Screenwriter
Joined
Nov 1, 2000
Messages
1,424
The action sequences had my heart going, but everything from the meeting with the Architect and then on hit the ball out of the ballpark for me. Headtrip or genuine questions with solutions (Revolutions will provide a lot of answers), it brought me into a state of blissful confusion, with endless speculation and my own imagination expanding. Now, that's fun.

The two biggest questions Revolutions will need to deliver on are 1) Agent Smith's place in the entire story, and 2) if Neo's godly powers mean he is a intricately related to the sentinels, or a true Christ figure outside the Matrix too.
 

Paul_Scott

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Messages
6,545
glad to see so many ardent fans were stimulated.

my only question is- does this movie negate any premises and rules set forth in the the first?
 

Joshua_Y

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,241
Joshua Y is crusin' for a brusin'. Am i the only one who notices that this review is almost word for word Harry Knolwes review? It sounds like joshua just wanted to piss some of us off with his "Review." I know about two people who have seen this movie and they just can't get over how unbelivably cool this movie is. Well, i guess you can't really trust a guy with an Episode II sig to be too trustworthy on the subject of the matrix. Im leaving this thread before the flame wars start.
Hey bub...those are my thoughts on the film...and unlike Harry...the more I am thinking about it the more I like it...theres still a lot I dont care for (Rave)...but I liked it...and last time I checked...everyone was entitled to an opinion and I stated mine and I look forward to this disussion...so back off...
 

Dan Rudolph

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Messages
4,042
Paul, some peopel say it does, but they're wrong, IMHO.

There are soem thigns that don't seem to go anywhere int he movie, but I'm fairly sure they're mostly setting up things in Enter the Matrix and The Matrix Revolutions.
 

MikeRS

Screenwriter
Joined
Jul 17, 2002
Messages
1,326
By the way, I'm completely confused about Zion. Is it destroyed and the Agent Smith human was the only survivor?
Why do people miss this? Even if they didn't get it from the architect, Neo says straight out, that they have 24 hours until Zion is destroyed.

Zion has not been destroyed at the end of RELOADED


The ships that went to attack the sentinels got massacred. But Zion still has 24 hours. That's where REVOLUTIONS comes into play.
 

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