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*** Official THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Movies' started by BertFalasco, Dec 15, 2003.

  1. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    I don't know why, but some scenes (or the tone in the scenes) reminded me of PJ's earlier work in "Heavenly Creatures".
     
  2. Ben Osborne

    Ben Osborne Second Unit

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    Sam takes the ring after Frodo is entangled by Shelob, before the orcs capture Frodo, just like he does in the book. We don't see him Sam take it, but he wouldn't have taken it from Frodo at any other point. He thought Frodo was dead, and if he didn't take the ring the orcs would have gotten it.
     
  3. Stacey R

    Stacey R Extra

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    This was something that I looked at very closely during my viewing of the film. I saw an interview and was surprised to hear that Peter Jackson didn't actually direct this part of the film. Phillipa Boyens directed it.

    It did seem a bit off to me also.

    Stacey
     
  4. Schrall_Danny

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    BRAVO Quentin, you simply articulated each and every dissapointing issue.
     
  5. Bryant Trew

    Bryant Trew Second Unit

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    I actually thought that my theater put in a new projector or had their old one tuned. The resolution on the filmed seemed extremely high - it was extraordinarily clear IMO. Just brilliant on the eyes.
     
  6. DaveGTP

    DaveGTP Cinematographer

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    Patrick, on the Heavenly Creatures reference, you mean the Smeagol/Deagol scenes, right? I agree.

    After watching the other 2 EEs on Trilogy Tuesday, I seemed to notice a LACK of digital color grading on the Smeagol/Deagol scene at the beginning - it was very bright. Like it didn't have any of the color grading. Very noticeable right after the dark tinting of a lot of TTT. Perhaps it was tinted, just not very much.


    Just an observation.
    Perhaps this is what people were noticing about the scene that felt a little weird, but they couldn't put their finger on?
     
  7. Ben Osborne

    Ben Osborne Second Unit

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    I don't see how Denethor is a failure. He is supposed to frustrate and anger the audience because of his despair, fatalism, and callous treatment of Faramir. He also makes the situation feel more desperate, since if even he, the leader of the most powerful nation of men on earth, thinks there's no hope, things must be pretty dire indeed. I think his character works as he's intended to work. Clearly, Jackson doesn't want us to like him. He was more likeable in the book, obviously, but he was still pretty much a bastard.

    And finally, if you take him out, who is going to order Faramir back to Osgiliath? What is going to draw Gandalf away from the battle at a key moment? And who is going to be the leader of Gondor? Does Gandalf just show up at the city and start ordering people around without anyone standing in his way? No, Denethor needs to be in the story, and he works fine as he is.
     
  8. DanR

    DanR Supporting Actor

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    I have not read the books. Loved the movie, but thought it felt like a few things were missing which I hope will be the the EE:

    Denethor (Baromir and Faramir's father) - what exactly was the point of this character? He's an ass, likes his first son better, and tries to burn himself and his 2nd son. Oooohhhkay. Seems woefully undeveloped, and like a bunch of stuff was cut out.

    Aragorn "shows up" - Ok, so there were some reinforcements of Orcs traveling via some ships. We know that. But then all of the sudden Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas show up with the Army of Ghosts on those ships? What happened? I want to see it (see my next point).

    The Dead/Ghost Army - So the dead guys fight with Aragorn to fulfill their service/curse from when they bailed on Isuildur. Fine. But they show up, and magically just win the Minis Tirith battle in in like 5 seconds, seemingly whisping away every last troll, orc, etc almost instantaneously. This doesn't work. If they had showed what this army was capable of earlier (like maybe them attacking the orc re-inforcement ships), it would have played better. As it stands now, we see Aragorn recruit them, they show up and BAM, the battle is over. Like Aragorn opened up a magic box of ghosts. If that is the case, it is a huge letdown/ending to a great battle.

    There were other small moments or lapses of time in the film that seemed rushed to me. Again, I hope all this stuff is shown in the EE.

    Regards,
    Dan
     
  9. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    There was a quick homage to the book in the movie version; when Sam is walking up the stairs, he scares three of the remaining Orcs with his shadow before revealing himself. I thought it was a nice touch. To be honest, I'm shocked they put the tower sequence in at all. I would have liked it to have the Sam's song beneath the trapdoor:
    I just though that was always a beautiful moment. I also would have liked to see the Watchers bar Sam entry from the tower so we could have seen that he'd kept the phial safe. The Watchers themselves were in the movie, albeit oddly quiet. It gives me hope they'll make the Expanded Edition.
     
  10. Haggai

    Haggai Producer

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    Didn't we know that the ship-bound bad guy reinforcements (not Orcs, IIRC, they were going to be some other race of dudes) were coming because Elrond told Aragorn about it? Thus, Aragorn figured that he could surprise the Orcs by showing up that way.
     
  11. CharlesD

    CharlesD Screenwriter

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    Yes there is, when Gandalf leaves Edoras with Pip to go to Minas Tirith.
     
  12. MatthewLouwrens

    MatthewLouwrens Producer

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    True - that's probably where my picture is from.
     
  13. Sean Cauley

    Sean Cauley Stunt Coordinator

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    I have to say I was even more impressed by the Gollum effects than I was a year ago, which I didn't think was possible. There was one shot--outside Shelob's lair, if I remember right--where I honestly thought I was looking at Andy Serkis in an extreme makeup for a minute, and was amazed at how well the CG gave me that impression.

    I was also impressed by Shelob. It didn't even occur to me until I got home from the movie and read a review that it was a masterwork of CGI; in the theater, I just took it as fact that they were fighting a giant spider. And I'm certainly old enough to know better.
     
  14. Haggai

    Haggai Producer

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    I sort of figured that Sam had done some re-wrapping of Frodo in the webbing after tearing some of it away, in order to avoid tipping off the Orcs that someone else might have gotten to Frodo after Shelob wrapped him up.
     
  15. Bill Laskowski

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    A couple of observations after a second viewing:

    1) When Aragorn et al. ride back from the Black Gate, there's black blood on Anduril. Remnants of the deleted MOS scene?

    2) If you want to know where the idea of the fire beacons originate, read the beginning of Aeschylus's Agamemnon. They are used to signal the fall of Troy back to Greece.

    3) Two weird reflections, in my mind, of the old Douglas Fairbanks, Jr., movie Sinbad the Sailor. PJ as the corsair reminds me of Walter Slezak (bushy eyebrows, baggy pants) in that movie, and the POV shot of the stone heading out of the sky at Gothmog is reminiscent of the way Anthony Quinn's demise is filmed (POV shot of Greek-fire ball descending).
     
  16. Kami

    Kami Screenwriter

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    Well one scene that sold it for me that these guys are powerful was them swarming over that one Mumakil and just bringing it down almost instantly.

    Elrond also states that no living army can compare to them.
     
  17. John Doran

    John Doran Screenwriter

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    chapter 1, book 5 - "minas tirith":

    "There was a silence again for a while. Then, 'What is that?' cried Pippin suddenly, clutching at Gandalf's cloak. 'Look! Fire, red fire! Are there dragons in this land? Look, there is another!'
    For answer Gandalf cried aloud to his horse. 'On, Shadowfax! We must hasten. Time is short. See! The beacons of Gondor are alight, calling for aid. War is kindled. See, there is the fire on Amon Din, and flame on Eilenach; and there they go speeding west: Nardol, Erelas, Min-Rimmon, Calenhad, and the Halifirien on the boders of Rohan.'"
     
  18. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    That's one scene for sure.
     
  19. DanR

    DanR Supporting Actor

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    Haggai, Yeah, that's what I mean. We know those ships are headed to battle with re-inforcements for the bad guys. But we never actually see Aragorn and the army of ghosts go and fight those ships and then sail them to the Palennor battle to surprise the orcs (as you mentioned the surprise element).

    Well, I guess I'll have to take Elrond's word for it. [​IMG] Perhaps a better way of stating my issue with this army is that they just show up and annihilate all the bad guys so quickly...we have nothing on which to base their ability in combat. Had we seen them in a smaller, more intimate battle (like overtaking the ships in a rather easily), it would be more "reasonable" for them to show up and make quick work of everyone in the Palennor Fields. As it stands now, they just kind of show up and obliterate everything, and to me it comes off as a poor ending to a great battle...almost too convenient. Had we see Aragorn and this army over-take the boats, we'd have been like, "Ok, cool, these guys are unstoppable, and Aragorn is taking them to turn the tide in the big battle." Then when they show up, it's much more plausible to me.

    Again, having not read the books, maybe this is how it happens in the ROTK book. If so, then fine. My more cynical side says that there was a small "side-battle" for the boats in the book, but that New Line or Peter Jackson didn't want to incur the expense and hassle of shooting a water battle?!?!?!?

    Overall, the movie was great...it's just that some things seemed cut-up a bit to me. If 45 minutes is indeed missing, then perhaps I'll just need to view the EE. No doubt in my mind though that this is the greatest trilogy and set of movies ever put to film. I kind of feel bad that it's over now...like I'm never going to see anything on a movie screen that quite equals what Peter Jackson has done here. That is such a depressing thought.

    Regards,
    Dan
     
  20. MatthewLouwrens

    MatthewLouwrens Producer

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    Sone random comments:

    I really missed Gandalf and the Witch-King. I mean, it was just a couple of months ago that the official site released the Witch-King wallpaper with that image - indeed, I have it on my computer. That it didn't make the final cut is disappointing - another reason to look forward to the EE.

    ROTFL
     

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