*** Official THE DARK KNIGHT Discussion Thread

Colin Jacobson

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Yup. I think some of the complaints about Maggie may stem from a) greater expectations for her performance over Katie's, and b) the character as written. Face it: she doesn't have much to do. However, Maggie displays an actual WEIGHT to the role wholly absent in Katie's. In BB, Rachel seems like a petulant teenager, while here she's a force with which to be reckoned. I can buy MG's Rachel as a prosecutor; I never remotely accepted KH in that way.

Yes, KH is prettier, but MG isn't dog meat. For those who think it's irrational that Bruce and Harvey fall in love with a woman who's not a "10", ever think maybe - just maybe - her intelligence sways them?
 

Colin Jacobson

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Exactly. If Bruce just wants a babe, he can have that - and he clearly HAS had plenty of them! He honestly LOVES Rachel, which makes the movie's emotional thrust all the more compelling. Looks probably aren't that important to Bruce because of the "been there, done that" factor...
 

Colin Jacobson

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I gotta admit I thought a lot of the laughter at the Joker's exploits was inappropriate, and I believe much of it stemmed from preconceived notions. Everyone thinks the Joker's supposed to be a laugh riot ala the Nicholson performance, but I don't believe the Ledger Joker is intended to be 1/10th as funny. At my screening, there were a lot of laughs at scenes that I really don't think were supposed to be especially amusing beyond a limited sense of dark humor.

It reminded me of the first time I saw 48 Hours in 1982. Since this was an Eddie Murphy movie, people expected a big comedy. It's not - it's an action flick with comedic elements. However, so many people were so CONVINCED it'd be a hoot, they'd laugh at scenes that weren't remotely funny, like cold-blooded murders.

The Joker here is a more complex case because he's got some humorous elements, but I still think people laughed more than they would have if they didn't go in with particular expectations. Ledger's Joker was a grim character, not a comedic one...
 

Zack Gibbs

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It was just a joke. But everyone in a movie wears make-up. I didn't really notice anything. Are you sure it wasn't just his dark features?

...Michael Caine used to wear mascara all the time in the 70's.
 

Colin Jacobson

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Join the club! I loved it so much I didn't want it to end, but my bladder felt differently. I held it until the end because I didn't want to miss anything, but it was a close call.

That's my biggest complaint about the flick: no built-in bathroom breaks! It's so relentless that it gives you no chance to step out for a minute...
 

Colin Jacobson

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You have it backwards: the accountant wanted LF to bribe HIM to stay mum about Batman's identity. LF just reminded him that Batman probably isn't someone he wants as an enemy...
 

Colin Jacobson

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That's EXACTLY what I thought - I figured the movie offered some very sly foreshadowing for the appearance of Catwoman at a later date. Whether she WILL appear in the third flick remains to be seen, of course, but there's no question in my mind that this comment was fully intentional and meant to refer to Catwoman...
 

Colin Jacobson

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He wasn't in any of the Spider-Man or Batman flicks, so he never COULD make that claim!


Sorry - Superman was a good film, but I don't think it's anywhere as good as the Spidey flicks, Burton's Batman movies or the two Nolan Batman movies. As far as I'm concerned, all of those blow away Superman...
 

Colin Jacobson

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I think it's a mistake to firmly believe the Joker came from a bad childhood. Sure, he tells us that his dad carved up his face as a kid, but he later claims he did it himself for his wife. Both can't be true, so it's a mistake to believe EITHER of them.

I actually love that there's absolutely ZERO "origin story" for the Joker. He emerges from nowhere and we have not the slightest clue how he became that way. Too many people have accepted the father story as the explanation, but it's too pat - if horrifying - for a movie this complex. It's a brilliant twist that the wife story completely undermines the earlier "original story" and leaves us without any explanation for his status...
 

Mark Hawley

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Ok, fair enough but I still the think the first half of Superman has yet to be topped. But I could agree at least Spiderman 2 (definitely not 3 though), Batman Returns and the two Nolan Batman films are better as a whole.

But I could still rightly say that Superman was widely argued to be the best superhero comic adaptation ever and thanks to Dark Knight, it's less arguable!
 

Mark Hawley

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Yeah, that was funny. I remember watching his first explanation and saying to myself, "what a cliche, he's bad because his alcoholic dad abused him!" and being a bit jarred that the film would stoop to that.

Then the second "explanation" came up and I thought, hmm, very clever: He just tells whatever "origin" story fits the occasion. So it was mocking the cliches rather than adhering to them.
 

Nick Martin

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You have to wonder what his third explanation would have been had Batman not interrupted.


He may not have an origin, but it was great to see him sit down and just talk things out with Harvey. No games, just a simple truth about who he is and who he isn't, so you know to believe him when he has something to say since he's kept his word every time, with deadly results.
 

Colin Jacobson

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You're probably right that Superman is generally viewed as the best superhero flick - at least among those of a certain generation. If you asked folks under 30, I doubt it'd be in their top 5 - or maybe top 10. I could be wrong, but I don't think it's endured for a crowd who don't have childhood memories of it.

I'd guess the under-30s probably pick Spidey or Spidey 2 as their faves. To them, the Burton Batman probably feels old!

Not saying this in a critical way - or to demean the 1978 Superman, which I loved as a kid and still like. I just think that a "consensus" on the best superhero flick will depend strongly on generational factors - which is true for everything, I suppose! I wonder what folks who are 50+ think is the best superhero flick; Superman probably dominates for the 30-50-year-olds, so I have no idea what an older crowd would think.

For me - a 41-year-old - it's a tough call. I loved the two Burton Batman flicks, and I also love the three Spidey movies; yeah, 3 is the weakest link, but mediocre Spidey is still better than almost anything else. The two Nolan Batman movies may well be the best of the bunch. I really liked Begins, but I'm reluctant to call something "the best ever" when I just saw it two hours ago. Heck, I thought Mars Attacks! was a genius when I first saw it!
 

dana martin

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A lot of thing do change as you get a little older, at 41 you loved the Burton films, I enjoyed them for what they are, Just think of the Kevin Smith quote and you will understand.

Overall I think that Nolan has a great grasp on this and it could possibly be the best series

But that fact that it is trying to rival Superman 1 and 2 (personally Donner Cut) and reboot with superman returns continuing the story

Spiderman was good but I think 3 got a little to cute wink wink,

And don’t get anyone started on what Ratner did wrong on X 3
 

Mark Hawley

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True. And yes the generational thing plays a big part in it. Childhood nostalgia definitely plays a big part in many people's opinions.

Am I'm not going to say The Dark Knight is the best just yet even though it feels like it could be and even I had some problems with it like thinking the sonar thing was pretty lame. The earlier post was just a joke to speculate why Reed was so unjustafiably harsh on the film.
 

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