The Dark Knight (2008) (1 Viewer)

[rich_d]

Your other points are fine but you're dreaming about ANY actor drawing people as the Joker even coming CLOSE to what a tragically dead actor did for the film. That's not just free publicity but also the curiosity of the paying public. No doubt the film continue to do well because it's a home run.

Oh, and if they COULD have cast Johnny Depp as the Joker, they would have cast him as the Joker.

 

[EricW]

there's no way Catwoman (as a catburgler thief) could be the main villain because the nature of her crimes just doesn't sound like something Batman would waste his time with. no one is really in danger - she's not hurting anyone. and if she did, Bruce Wayne wouldn't be interested in her. If she was Gotham's most wanted he could retire and if she was a secondary villain, would she "team up"" with the main villain? that'd be unrealistic...

 

[Pete-D]

They could have, Nolan just didn't want to go in that direction. It's a well written, high profile character, Depp would've taken the part.

They could have "stunt cast" the same way the 1989 Batman film did, they opted to go with a lesser known actor -- Heath Ledger. They gave Nolan free reign on who he was casting because he had brought the Batman franchise back to respectability, but if the studio had a say in it, I doubt Ledger would've been cast in such a big role to begin with.

And don't even *start* with "oh was already a big actor" ... he wasn't. Some of the younger generation knew him but he was hardly a household name.

And The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus isn't going to make $400 million, probably not even $150 million, so the "Heath factor" I think is somewhat overblown.

His tragedy just sorta evened the scales if they had cast someone really well known in the first place like Johnny Depp or DiCaprio. I gauruntee if you asked the studio before hand they would have preferred Depp or DiCaprio to Ledger, every single suit in Warner Bros. would have.

Besides hype or no hype if Indiana Jones & the KotCS, which is a pretty mediocre film nostalgia aside, can cap $300 million, then I don't really think it should be a surprise that The Dark Knight, one of the most anticipated films of the year even prior to Ledger's passing absolutely detroyed the box office this summer.

The Dark Knight is what movies like The Matrix Reloaded and Attack of the Clones could have been if they had actually lived up to audience expectation. Sometimes making an actually good film pays off. Go figure. Hype is only half the equation.

 

[JonZ]

"The Dark Knight is what movies like The Matrix Reloaded and Attack of the Clones could have been if they had actually lived up to audience expectation. Sometimes making an actually good film pays off. Go figure."

 

[rich_d]

Do you have a credible source for Depp wanting that part and being turned down?

BIG difference between Ledger in a movie that he completed with a timely release versus a film he only partially filmed before his death AND will be released in 2009 (news stale at that point) AND three actors replacing him in the role.

 

[Ray H]

I'd argue that Heath was a bigger name than you give him credit for. He was about as well known as you can be without being a bonafide "star". Anyone who cares for movies knew of him - he just hadn't had that big role that quite connected with audiences. Younger audiences loved him and older audiences were just starting to appreciate his talent. Ledger, when he was cast as the Joker, was more well known than someone like Christian Bale is even now. Bale is Batman to most audiences and they haven't really followed his career to other movies. Ledger, on the other hand, had memorable starring roles in films like "The Patriot", "A Knight's Tale" and "Brokeback Mountain". Arguably, if this wasn't a Batman sequel with an already established cast of returning actors, Ledger would have received top or equal billing to Bale (who only has top billing because he's Batman).

Still, I agree with you. Even if Ledger was relatively well known, he wasn't really a box office draw. Even if many people are honoring Ledger by going to see the movie, I see it accounting for a couple dozen million dollars, but I don't see it being the reason why the movie's going to do north of $500 M.

And unless "The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus" gets a huge rollout, and great buzz, I can't see it doing more than $50 M or even that much.

 

[TonyD]

true, somewhat obvious.

also, the creators of those films certainly intended on making "good" films.

So are the star wars references going to start up again.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Sure. I'll argue that The Matrix Reloaded was one of the best films of 2003, so it's more than just quality. It's accessibility and expectations.

TDK has all of those, along with nuance and a PG-13 rating that it more than earns.

 

[Pete-D]

Because sometimes hype isn’t good enough, sometimes ... People deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded.



You could argue no one really intends to make a bad film. I knew The Matrix Reloaded was in trouble (IMO) when the Wachowskis kept going on and on about how they were going to revolutionize special effects (we'll have Neo fight ... uh .... a hundred ... no a *thousand* Smiths!), much like Lucas did prior to Episode I with Jar-Jar Binks (he can hold his own in a scene with Liam Neeson! lol). Just focus on the story, forget the effects fellas. Those function to tell the story not the other way around. Hopefully James Cameron doesn't fall into this trap for 'Avatar'.

As for the Ledger thing, the reason why I think it's somewhat overblown is one year ago every single suit at Warner Bros. if they had their way would've given the role to a Johnny Depp or Leonardo DiCaprio, not Heath Ledger. Heath Ledger from their marketing P.O.V. probably wasn't even in their top 5. Following up Jack Nicholson with ... Heath Ledger? Don't even think for a second anyone at Warner was thrilled with that.

But they let Nolan do his thing because they didn't want to screw up the Batman franchise again by making the director unhappy. So he wants a less marketable actor for an iconic role like the Joker? OK you got it, Mr. Nolan. Because we need a piece of this superhero movie pie bad after being spanked by Marvel for the last 10 years.

The tragedy with Heath Ledger I'd argue just evened those scales because of the media coverage, but it could have been there in the first place if the suits had their way with a better known actor to begin with.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Just wanted to say these are two of the most intelligent responses to this movie I've read yet. Bravo guys!

 

[Prentice Cotham]

One subtle moment I loved that I didn't catch in my first viewing, is how Dent thinks Rachel is still alive when he sees his coin. Then he flips it over to see the scarring of the coin and realizes she's dead and cries out (can't hear w/ the music swelling).

 

[Todd H]

On my second viewing, I noticed a lot of foreshadowing of things to come just by the lighting. I caught a bunch of instances where half of Harvey's face was hidden by shadows before his accident.

 

[Patrick Sun]

It's a testament to the script and filmmaking that TDK rewards multiple viewings. The lingering on Ramirez at the end of a scene (when Harvey is driven off after being rescued in the Joker Gauntlet) lets you know she's got her own personal shitstorm to deal with, even if it's set up with a throwaway line about having to put her mom back in the hospital for care. There are lots of such bits like this in the film.

 

[Kachi Khatri]

Yep, another one is when Harvey Dent being confident enough to disarm a thug by grabbing his gun in open court. Shows that he was a former cop.

 

[Patrick Sun]

This is hilarious...in a cute way:

The Dark Knight... With Kids - CollegeHumor video

 

[Marianne]

No assult charges for Christian Bale


BBC NEWS | Entertainment | No assault charge for Batman Bale

Just putting this in because I brought attention to his arrest in this thread.

 

[ZacharyTait]

Here's the last scene of the movie with just the music and dialogue that is subtitled. Helpful to those who thought that the music overwhelmed the dialogue.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Just a FYI, for discussion pertaining to the next sequel, please post in that thread:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...lians-etc.html

 

[Pete-D]

The Batman voice is starting to grow on me, heh.

 

[Henry Gale]

Thanks Zach!