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*** Official THE DARK KNIGHT Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Movies' started by JonZ, Jul 15, 2008.

  1. Brent M

    Brent M Producer

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    I don't know if this has been discussed here yet or not, but did anyone notice that a lot of shots from the trailers were either missing or altered in the final film? I know this happens quite frequently with movies, but there were some really awesome shots that didn't make the final cut and I was just wondering if anyone else noticed. For example,

    -The shot in the 1st trailer where The Joker is limping down the street with his machine gun in one hand and then he opens the switchblade in his other hand. That was one of the coolest shots in the trailer, but it didn't make the final cut which was somewhat disappointing.

    -When The Joker is meeting with all the gang leaders, his delivery of "Kill the Batman" and "Here's my card" is extremely different in the film. The lines seemed to work much better as delivered in the trailer IMHO. Also, some of the chilling laughter we heard in the trailer wasn't actually in the movie and that's a shame because Heath really nailed the laugh.

    -There's a shot of Batman running across the tops of police cars and also the Tumbler speeding out of the underground facility in the trailer, but those sequences never made it into the final film.

    I realize this is all "nitpicky" stuff and it doesn't affect my overall enjoyment of the movie one bit(it's still a 10 out of 10 for me), but I was just curious if anyone else was as anal as me and noticed the omissions from the final cut of the film. Given that Nolan has said there won't be a director's cut or any deleted scenes, I guess we'll never see any of this material on the Blu-Ray or DVD release. [​IMG]
     
  2. Nick Martin

    Nick Martin Cinematographer

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    These are more alternate takes than deleted scenes, so changes in line delivery wouldn't be enough to include them on any release.

    And I agree, most of the trailer versions were great.

    I prefer the film version of the 'kill the Batman' lines, because they make Joker come across as someone who's a fool for trying to come up with that idea, whereas the trailer version makes it look as though Joker's too confident in it.

    I also thought the lines "There's no going back, you've changed things. Forever" "To them you're just a freak...like me" were better in the film, because they were less sinister and more sincere.

    One of them that stayed of course was the more enthusiastic "We are...tonight's entertainment!" line, which had two versions both heard in trailers and TV spots. Same with the "This city deserves a better class of criminal, and I'm gonna give it to 'em" line.

    Joker's applause in the jail was also different.

    The laugh...wow. Best instance of it was during the Brian Douglass torture videotape. Fantastic and very creepy.
     
  3. Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Lead Actor

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    I noticed that too Brent...some of those lines were altered a bit. The "kill the batman" line was changed for sure.

    I finally took in a 2nd viewing. Some things surprised me. Normally a film of such enormous hype like TDK, I always seem to enjoy a great deal more the 2nd time around...or 3rd etc...but in this case, I found myself liking some parts better whereas other stuff less so. Weird. Most of my minor issues were way less and some new ones kind of creeped in though. [​IMG]

    Maggie was good here and at first I thought she wasn't "right" on first viewing. Still prefer Holmes but Maggie was serviceable here.

    Oldman's performance got even better for me. I mean I really think he's absolutely the anchor here in this film. Everyone is on their A game for sure, but Gary just brings such a warmth & honest persona to the screen.

    Alot of us have said "yeah maybe a tad long..but not sure where to cut?".... that still applies. Actually the boat sequence played much better this time for me. But part of me believes Dent's change and kidnapping Gordan's family was alot to take in after such dramatic tension events--Rachel's fate, boat ordeal, and Batman-Joker's last encounter.

    It's too strong to imply that Dent's kidnapping feels tacked on but in some ways it is too much for me. When The Joker tells Batman he's got an Ace In The Hole that could still play out with Dent being AWOL. But then that would change the entire ending and epilogue. So it's not a perfect fit but still effective.

    Certainly not a deal breaker though on a great film.

    I also paid more attention to the score and like it alot. Very good.

    Also found myself really, really finding Gordon's epilogue VERY effective. Loved it. [​IMG]

    Also need to state again, how much I enjoyed Ledger's performance. My favorite moments were his opening Mob encounter when they asked him:

    "did you expect to steal our money and get away with it?"...

    He responds in a wry way..."yeah"....GREATNESS. [​IMG]

    The other FANTASTIC scene was the interrogation room when he tells Batman..."never start with the Head!...."

    My original score rating was a 9/10 and that remains...

    I plan on a 3rd viewing 2moro night. [​IMG]
     
  4. Brent M

    Brent M Producer

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    Good to know I'm not the only one that noticed the subtle changes between trailers and finished film. None of them really make a difference in the grand scheme of things, but if there was one shot I could have Nolan put back in the film it would be The Joker limping along with the machine gun and switchblade. That's just such a great shot, I can't believe it didn't make the final cut.
     
  5. Nick Martin

    Nick Martin Cinematographer

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    IMAX for the first time tomorrow....*Homer Simpson*WOO-HOO!!!*Homer Simpson*

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Ken Chan

    Ken Chan Producer

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    Some articles about the technical process of making the movie with IMAX linked at this blog.
     
  7. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Producer

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    I've seen it twice also. This is the best comic book movie I have seen in a long, long time. I can't imagine how cool the third one will be. Batman has always been my favorite DC character so check out this bold statement:

    As far as Donner's Superman is concerned. I have given up trying to compare other comic book movies to it because I always end up with the same conclusion. IMO there will never be a better comic book/hero film that makes me so very happy. The story is perfection, but the film even goes beyond that. It combines Fantasy, science, and a love story for pure escapist enjoyment. If someone asks what's so great about films, The answer should always be watch Superman, and you will understand!
     
  8. Jeff

    Jeff Supporting Actor

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    I just saw this and although I liked the movie I was very under whelmed by the ending. I know Two Face wasn't in the movie much (as 'Two Face') but his demise should have been more elaborate. First you have Batman getting shot and put down by a single bullet and then a few moments later he comes out of no where and jumps on him, sending them both off a cliff. Boring!

    Then there's the setup for the next movie which was very weak. They have to explain why 5 people got killed; none of which anyone in Gothem could care less, outside their families. The audience couldn't care less about them either. So Batman decides to take the fall, but why would anyone in the city believe Batman killed them, after everything he has done? Everyone has to know it's a cover up of some sort...Maybe this will be address in the next movie, I don't know.


    I think too much of the mystique is gone. It was nice seeing the daylight scenes but there were too many. The few comic book elements in Batman Begins, that were left, are now gone.

    Jeff
     
  9. Romier S

    Romier S Producer

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    Apparently you missed the entirety of the Joker turning Gotham against Batman. His hiding behind his mask through the first half of the film allows more people to die at the Joker's hands. By the time we reach the press conference with Harvey they want him arrested and put away. "After everything he's done" means nothing.

    As to the audience or Gotham caring about the death of those five people - the audience doesn't need to care about them. That's not the point of thier deaths in the film. The point, however, is that Harvey was Gotham's white knight. He was thier last remaining symbol of good and hope in the city. Gotham City learning that thier last bastion of hope was nothing but a serial murderer (two of which were cops no less) is something they will most certainly care about. It would undo all of the good that Harvey did and finally "break" Gotham of any hope it might have had left. Allowing the Joker to "win" by corrupting Harvey and subsequently the city he was trying to save. With Batman taking the blame - he essentially makes a martyr out of Harvey Dent. Harvey's legacy will no doubt help to energize the cities belief that it CAN fight the good fight and that they can come back from all of the evil prevelant on the streets. Batman's now the hunted one and by becoming a "murderer" he preserves Harvey's legacy by becoming the hero Gotham needs (even if they don't want him) and regaining the edge he had before the Joker tore down the image of Batman by making it common knowledge that he had rules against killing.

    I frankly don't see any of that as "weak setup" to a third film. I see it as an extremely powerful ending to "The Dark Knight". I'm glad Nolan and company didn't hold back...
     
  10. Paul_Scott

    Paul_Scott Lead Actor

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    Inflation, the devaluation of the currency, unemployment, personal debt, health care costs...In Gotham City, NONE of these ranks as high on the despair meter as finding out a well liked politician became corrupted after suffering a traumatic catastrophic disfigurment. I mean, obviously if you can't put your faith in a politician, how can you ever have hope of a better, brighter tomorrow.



    Part of me would like to think that Nolan is being either cynical (the public can't deal with the truth) or satrical (the public can't even understand the truth) with this, but the rest of the film is just too earnest to support that kind of reading.
     
  11. Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Lead Actor

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    Well...I lied. [​IMG] [​IMG]

    At the last minute we decided to take in The Dark Knight last night instead of going this evening...

    The 3rd time was indeed the charm. Everything just fell into place for this movie experience this time around. I can't explain it. I mean I LOVED every moment of this film and it knocked it out of the park.

    Not sure if I absorbed more of the narrative or the performances kept making an impact? Whatever the reasons are not important I guess. [​IMG]

    Are their flaws? Yes. But there are flaws in nearly every film I adore. But last night's viewing is up there in the category of Most Treasured Cinematic Moments. It's actually a very complex film and maybe I'm just slow. [​IMG] Dent's kidnapping scenes, while at first felt a bit tacked on...were really effective.

    The sound system was stellar and that certainly aided in our enjoyment. I mean one of the better commercial systems I've heard in awhile.

    I eagerly await the Blu-ray version this fall.

    My score is now a very solid 10/10 & among the best films I've seen the past few years.
     
  12. Shawn.F

    Shawn.F Supporting Actor

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    You're not slow, Tim. There really is that much to absorb in the film. Trust me, it took three viewings before I wrote my review. Even then, I picked up on some more the fourth time. [​IMG]
     
  13. Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Lead Actor

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    Thanks Shawn. [​IMG]...there is quite a bit going on to take in. I even noticed more of Bale's expressions too this time around which were powerful.

    Many here have said this too but this cast; as well as Batman Begins' cast might be one of the better overall casts in film history.

    Big statement...but true.

    I forgot to mention this but Heath Ledger MOST definitely deserves an Oscar Nomination and I know it's early but The Dark Knight deserves some Best Picture love. [​IMG]
     
  14. Chris Atkins

    Chris Atkins Producer

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  15. Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Lead Actor

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. Jeff

    Jeff Supporting Actor

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    One of these days I’ll turn these comments in to a review. THERE ARE SPOILERS below which I didn’t block out!

    I *LIKED* The Dark Knight but this movie is WAY over hyped and it's going to go down in history as the most over hyped movie ever. I much preferred Batman Begins which flipped the comic book element of Batman upside down, and put it in a world you can relate to. The Dark Knight continues this but steps outside the comic book world, completely. Gotham City now looks like Chicago circa…Well…Today. I have to wonder if director Christopher Nolan didn’t originally intend for this look but due to the large scope of location shooting in Chicago, he decided it would be easier and less expensive. I liked the contemporary look of Batman Begins but it went too far with this movie.

    Batman seems to have lost his dark past and what made him put the suit on to begin with. He now seems to be looking forward to ending his crusade and shack up with Rachel Dawes. All that anger, resentment and fear appears to be gone and he's much more preoccupied with having Harvey Dent bring the city together. What a difference a year makes (or whatever the time span was). He definitely wasn’t League of Shadows material! And what’s with the annoying gruff voice when he’s among people who know him as Bruce Wayne? Wouldn’t it be nice to hear Bales normal voice as Batman, every so often?

    The movie was too long at around 140+ minutes and didn’t seem to know when or how to end. The pacing and editing, which were perfect in Batman Begins, were very slow and disjointed. There could have been a lot of scenes on the cutting room floor and made this overly long movie run shorter. Two scenes I hated were the Batman/Rachel falling scene. Rachel not only survived falling, in the arms of Batman, from a building but didn’t have a scratch on her…And it was rather pointless, since she dies later in the movie anyway. The other was the ‘Sonar Sequence’. This was a real cop-out and it makes one think if Batman could have rigged this up in such a short amount of time, why couldn’t it have been done much sooner?

    The action scenes, although entertaining, seemed quite pedestrian for a movie of this caliber and I have to wonder if Christopher Nolan filmed them in Imax to make them seem bigger and better than they really are. It’s quite under whelming to have Batman save the day by ‘steering’ his Batmobile in the line of fire and do nearly the same thing (on a much smaller scale) with his Lamborghini. It’s almost like he doesn’t know how to write complex stunt scenes in a screen play.

    Finally, I think Heath Ledger’s performance, as The Joker, is Oscar worthy and he is far more entertaining than Bale as Batman, who was more wooden in this movie than Batman Begins. I think The Dark Knight would have suffered considerably if it wasn’t for The Joker and perhaps Ledger’s tragic death amplified the hype of this movie, to the considerable level that it's become.

    I give it 3 out of 5 stars.

    (I gave Batman Begins 5 out of 5)


    Jeff
     
  17. Brent M

    Brent M Producer

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    Since you said this is going to go down as "one of the most over-hyped movies in history" in the review thread, I'll respond to that statement here. Movies are only "over-hyped" if they don't actually deliver and this is one of the few films that does indeed live up to the hype. It's the most satisfied I've been walking out of a movie theater in ages and I think that's a pretty common opinion across the board.
     
  18. DavidPla

    DavidPla Cinematographer

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    Was the great scene where Joker keeps pushing the button to blow up the hospital and then finally runs into the bus improvised with Heath Ledger? Even when he runs, it looks like the camera realizes that he's running and then tries to keep up with him. I love it. Does anyone know if the filmmakers talked about that?
     
  19. Jason Roer

    Jason Roer Supporting Actor

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    Brent,

    I happen to disagree with Jeff, however, he was simply stating his opinion. To him, it clearly didn't deliver.

    I, you, and most of the rest of the general public feel the film did more than deliver - the film went beyond our expectations even in the light of such remarkable praise. And that's a testament to how tremendous the film truly is.

    Cheers,

    Jason
     
  20. Romier S

    Romier S Producer

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    None of which are prevelant themes in "The Dark Knight". In the fantasty universe Nolan has created (and it is a fantasy no matter how grounded to reality it is or how much it looks like Chicago[​IMG]) - the rise and fall of Harvey Dent is the linchpin of the story. He's the glue that ties all of these characters together. "He was the best of us" isn't thrown out there for kicks, nor is the final monologue by Gordon.

    The movie deals very specifically in themes of corruption and the consequences of having a masked vigilante inhabiting a psuedo realistic environment (amusingly a theme The Watchmen delves into in a very major way). Any right minded person would expect a man that dresses up like a Bat to fight crime would be pushed to the brink of breaking his own rules (i.e murder) than a good natured "uncorruptable" politician. The reverse proves to be true when all is said and done.

    That's the "reading" I took away from the film for right or wrong. I can apply real world logic to the events in the film and come up with a similiar conclusion that Nolan is either being cynical or satirical Paul - but Gotham City isn't the real world. You either buy the fantasy that Harvey was such an important catalyst for change in Gotham that his corruption would have pushed Gotham to a point of no return, or you don't. I bought it.[​IMG]
     

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