*** Official "TEARS OF THE SUN" Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Declan, Jan 7, 2003.

  1. Declan

    Declan Second Unit

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    ..........trailer up at apple.com/trailers ........or you can download it from here:trailersworld ...............and do you know what.
    It looks pretty damn good. Kinda a cross between Black hawk Down and Proof Of Life. Can anybody confirm that the bad guy in this is Mr. Otto (the guy that gets captured at the start of Black Hawk Down......cant remember the actors name)and not Tony Todd from The Rock and Candyman.
    Did'nt a stuntman get killed during the making of this, o am i thinking of a different movie?
     
  2. MarcinL

    MarcinL Stunt Coordinator

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    Its not Mr. Otto and No the stuntman did not die during this movie, the only deaths in stuns (careers) lately has been with XXX in praque where the stuntman hit the bridge parasailing and in Exit Wounds the action sequence with the van tumbling!!!! But yes the trailer looks cool, but the plot sucks, No marine or Navy Seal will jeopardize his mission on the group of civilians, Imagine one of the man under his command would die, the leader would be court-martial under the Article 32 and than he would be charged conduct umbecoming an officer and even jailed for the deviation from his original mission, Trust me I served in Gulf War and now I'm in JAG so I know what I'm talking about, I'm a warm hearted guy and If my mission is to rescue a doctor so be it, Do I have a problem with civilians dying YES, I'm I going to jeopardize the mission get myself killed and my navy seals. NO A) because of Consequences with Military Law, B) because I fullfilled my mission and brought my men back, What they don't show you in movies is real fellings, Imagine looking at dead soldiers wife and telling her that you got him killed, because you wanted to save people that you are not supposed to. Thats for Movies, While I will see the movie I have raised an opinion that if this were to be portrayed realistically the movie would be over after they took the doctor, Black Hawk Down was one of the most realistic movies made on Urban Warfare on Enemy Territory, The 2 snipers that went down to help Michael Durand out the black hawk super 64, those are the people that are willing to sacrifice themselves, but if you think for one second that they would jump for innocent civilians you'd be crazy, now imagine some selfish Seals or Marines, they would not go down there for their own!!!!!!

    Like I said I will enjoy this for its action, Plus I like to nitpick war movies.

    In black hawk down, Most of the skinnies that were involved with our military on that day, were hiding behind women and shooting, Our soldiers killed a lot of women that day, You'll never see it in the movie because it would be terrible but hey that is the truth.
     
  3. Declan

    Declan Second Unit

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    Having an interest in WAR movies, my favourite (regarding how realistic it was) was Black hawk Down. With yourself being a Gulf War Vet how do you think that war was protrayed in movies such as Three Kings and Courage Under Fire?

    Thanks for the (remninder) of what would happen if that would happen in real life if a US Officer DID do what Willis does in the movie. But we have'nt seen it yet and I wonder if someone on his team DOES get killed during the course of the movie (after he decides to go back for the civillians) will Willis get court-martialed for his actions at the end of it.

    Would the argument be that if he did not save any of the civillians and the doctor went to the human rights orginisation for the Military's failure to save them (even if it was not thier mission) would that have any bearing on how the Military would have to react to weathert or not to taking innocent civillians in the future and what would the Military's reaction be to that in eyes of the rest of the World.

    Speaking as a non-US citizan it's an interesting moral dilema that the movie now has (in my mind) after reading your post.

    Thanks in advance
     
  4. MarcinL

    MarcinL Stunt Coordinator

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    Well first of Three Kings was kind of portrayed jokingly, The iraqi Military indeed did not shoot American Soldiers after the war, but in the case of the situation that those 3 were in that town, trust me we would never seen those 3 they would be captured and tortured and maybe returned, they would not simply let them go, especially with gold!!!!
    Courage Under Fire is portrayed very good, and has some true story elements.

    Now During the court-martial, the decision to save civilian life would mean nothing in defense of the leader of Navy seals, It was not his mission. those were not american civilians, Period. He endangered the men he was with. In real world This would never,ever happen, in case that it did, If one of the seals would disagree with this order, he could have put the leader of seals under arrest due to deraliction of duty. Going beyond you mission even to save 500 people is not what the military is about. You got a direct order and you will do it directly, If a seal leader, want it badly to save the people, he would complete the mission and get the doctor on board, and ask permission to extract people from the jungle, which trust me noone will risk it.

    If the Doctor would went to Human Rights Organization, nothing would happen, Our mission was to save her, not the people. Maybe you will see a story on CNN or what have you but nothing would happen within the military, basically it its nothing the military could do,

    Also when watching the movie, Willis and his crew are fighting in the jungle with the enemy, now the seals he has more than likely have the experience in Jungle Warfare, so they'll be fine, you dont tend to notice few seals hiding in the jungle, but you tend to notice 80 people with them, basically its a suicide.

    One thing I notice though, In the trailer, the C.O. aboard the carrier tells willis that the help is not coming they are on their own, so we have few options here

    If he said that after they tried to get the doctor out but came back for the civilians they he would get court-martial and everythin I said above.

    But if he was on his own before the doctor boarder the chopper, Which I don't think that happen, but if he received info that he was on his own, he is in Charge, he could change his mission as to see fit, He could save the whole jungle if he wanted to. So you see its possible, BUT from the trailer it looks like that came later, The fact that he was on the chopper with the doc and his team and return to help the civilians, right there his career is over.

    If you watch the Behind Enemy Lines, Hackman lost his career on rescuing the downed navigator, an American navigator, now imagine it would be serbian civilians, he would die in jail.

    Black Hawk Down was portrayed very good, but like I said the skinnies used women as shields, we have gunned down more women than ever over there, At one point there was a skinny crawling through the street, with 2 women in front of him and 4 kids virtually sitting on top of him and around him, while he was shooting at rangers, If I remember the report was that the soldier flshbanged them, kids ran away and guy got killed, but just to show you what kind of enemy we were facing overthere
     
  5. John Spencer

    John Spencer Supporting Actor

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    Do you have to keep referring to Somalians as "skinnies"? It seems very derogatory.
     
  6. TheLongshot

    TheLongshot Producer

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    The problem with judgeing a plot from the trailer is that things are always taken out of context, that you don't know what order and for what reasons certain actions are taken. It is possible that they have a good explination for it.

    I wouldn't put it above Hollywood to get it wrong, it is just that it is hard to tell from a trailer if they did get it wrong...

    Jason
     
  7. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    Just caught the trailer, looks to be a typical cookie-cutter rescue mission war flick, but it will make a great HT rocker DVD around Xmas time. Doesn't look theater worthy, but I'll buy the disk. Hopefully it will contain a dts track.
    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     
  8. Joshua_Y

    Joshua_Y Screenwriter

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    It looks pretty good. I'll probably go see it.
     
  9. Andrew_Sch

    Andrew_Sch Cinematographer

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    I checked on IMDB, and it turns out a stuntman was indeed killed making this movie:

     
  10. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    This thread is now designated the Official Discussion Thread for "Tears of the Sun" please, post all comments, links to outside reviews, film and box office discussion items to this thread.
    All HTF member film reviews of "Tears of the Sun" should be posted to the Official Review Thread.
    Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
    Crawdaddy
     
  11. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

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    I'm watching this on Wednesday, and will post my opinion.

    hans Zimmer rocks!!!
     
  12. Nick_Scott

    Nick_Scott Second Unit

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  13. Andy Sheets

    Andy Sheets Cinematographer

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    Just read an article about this the other day that was really interesting, about the difficulty in making an action movie that has a more serious agenda behind it. The article made the film sound much more intense than the Three Kings-ish trailer did, as apparently Antoine Fuqua is going for some pretty heavy imagery for the "ethnic cleansing" parts of the film. It made me want to see the movie this weekend.
     
  14. Yumbo

    Yumbo Cinematographer

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    ok,

    the music is the best thing about the movie.
    the dialogue is poor.
    given the above, the plot is basically a tale of morality.
    lots of directional effects.
    the simple crowd we saw it with thought it was a comedy, laughing at all the tragedies, quite sad.

    cliches abound.
    what saves it is the VERY last scene with Lebo M.'s soaring voice over Hans Zimmer's music very reminiscent of The Power Of One.

    Score-wise, opens with Lebo M. on a low tone, then harks of Black Hawk Down and Thin Red Line.

    looking forward to the CD next week.

    lots of distractions, plot flaws etc.
    but Cole Hauser was cool as usual.

    any questions, ask.
     
  15. Cary T

    Cary T Screenwriter

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    Saw Tears of the Sun today. Thought it was another shameless Hollywood big budget trash. Close to the equivalent of Armageddon [​IMG]
     
  16. Bill J

    Bill J Producer

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    Cary, did you feel that way about the entire film or just the ending? I thought that the majority of the film refrained from showing unnecessary violence or gore.
     
  17. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    I thought it was a more tense than a film like Black Hawk Down. Doing the right thing over doing the safe thing can sometimes exacts a heavy personal price. I found the soldiers heroic, but their characterizations on the thin side. But, in life, actions speak a lot louder than words, and sometimes that's all there is to the story.

    If a policeman shows up to save yourself, you're just glad that he showed up to do his job. Seldom do you care what aftershave he wears, or what he had for breakfast, or that he's married and has 2 kids. What you care about is getting through that day alive and returning to some semblance of normality after the crisis is over.
     
  18. Steve_Tk

    Steve_Tk Cinematographer

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    I'd almost go as far to say that I enjoyed this more than Black Hawk Down and We Were Soldiers (I enjoyed both a lot and own both).

    Maybe because it's more of a movie than a battle remake. Maybe because I'm a fan of Bruce Willis. This just comes off as more of a movie and I was glad that there were not any flashbacks of the soldiers hugging their wives before they left, to add shock value when they died. I like how the story didn't need to dig for that shock value, that it was already in the story.

    Also enjoyed "Zs" performance because seen him in so many OZ episodes.

    Will be adding this to the collection.
     
  19. LennyP

    LennyP Supporting Actor

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    Just finaly saw it, I was expecting it to be good, but it was even better, it wasn't just a mindless action movie, actually, there is almost no action in it besides one or two sequences.
    It's more in the somber sad tone of Thin Red Line mixed with Platoon only in Afrika.
    I thought it was very intense and music was a big part of it, liked it a lot as well. I didn't feel cheated or bored, it's an excellent movie that is so far one of the best of the year and is right behind Dark Blue.
     
  20. Paul.S

    Paul.S Producer

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    A damn fine film. Terrifically directed story about not just one man's moral quandary, but the roles and responsibilities of the First World vis-a-vis the Third. I'm very happy for Antoine Fuqua and can't wait for King Arthur.
    The ethnic cleansing sequence was powerful. From bad ass Cole Hauser in a crouched run approaching the village as percussion takes over from keyboards on the score, through Bruce standing amongst the flames while the camera spins around him while that inimitably Hans Z. low end synth rumbles with a plaintive Lebo M chanting on top. Poignant, moving, awesome.
    The final rush to safety, including the standoff with the rebels, ensuing gun battle and the F-16s (?) blowing their asses to Hell, was amaaaaazingly directed.
    No one's mentioned cinematography yet. It was stunning. Mauro Fiore has obviously been inspired by John Toll's amazing work on The Thin Red Line.
    Loved all the supporting guys--Eamonn Walker, Nick Chinlund, et al.
     

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