Superman Returns (2006) (2 Viewers)

[Tim Glover]

Yes...

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Yes. But it'll be in the same ballpark. For all of my jocking of BB...it will be in the same ballpark as well. $200-225M for both, though I'd put a hunski on B2 outgrossing S2 domestically.

 

[J-EL]

This was posted by David in the Box Office thread and since it's off-topic in that thread, I thought I'd reply to it over here.


Superman has to find out how Lois feels and if she still loves him. It's that simple. I don't think Superman has any preconceptions of how he hurt Lois by just leaving. Notice the sequence that comes directly before the scene of Superman outside the Lane house. It's Lois telling Clark about how the man she loved took off without so much as a goodbye. You can clearly see the pain in Clark's face as he hears what he's done to the woman he loves. And he has to find out whether she really does have any feelings for him anymore because Lois wouldn't tell him, given how rocky their relationship is at the moment.

He finds out that Lois doesn't love him anymore, at least that's what she says when confiding to Richard. So having just learned that the woman he loves no longer cares for him, he flies up to his listening post to do his thankless and selfless job of helping people all over the world. It's about more than just Superman finding out if Lois still cares for him, it's a small moment that really gets to the heart of Superman's isolation and fears of abandonment. And by the end of the film, when he flies out of the plane to what will likely be his certain death, he tells Lois goodbye. He realizes that he made a mistake before he left and he's rectifying that mistake by doing it right. The entire film is built as a redemption story. Superman left and when he returns he finds that the world is not how he left it. People have moved on, the world has changed drastically. Superman has to find his place not just in the world but in the hearts and minds of his loved ones. And throughout the film, the writers set up a series of challenges for him that push him to the limit physically and mentally and by the end of the film, he has redeemed himself and has a son and a home to show for it.

And I don't think the film makes Lois look like a "hussy" for moving on...not at all. I honestly can't see where you're getting that at. She's a loving, caring, if all too often career driven mother who loves her child and her fiancee, but has to deal with an old boyfriend returning suddenly into her life. I think it's quite true to form for Lois Lane.

Also, I wouldn't lump in the rest of the audience with yourself making broad generalizations. Unless of course, you took a poll.

 

[J-EL]

I think both The Dark Knight and Superman Returns 2 will cross $250 million domestic quite easily.

 

[Tino]

Chris

I DO like the film. I just was hoping for much, much more. Like I said, I just was incredibly disappointed with it.

 

[Tim Glover]

I have a question for you "experts" ...I'm a fraud. I've already stated that have never been a comic book reader. I've scanned a few...that's it. Have ZERO knowledge of these comic book characters/superhero types other than what I see in film.

Here's my question. I am just now finally watching Smallville, Season 4 on dvd. Just finished Season 3 last week. Overall they're pretty good. Some are GREAT, others are fair. Season 3 and I think even some of Season 2, portrayed Jor-El as this controlling, power hungry and perhaps even evil father? That has bothered me alot while watching Smallville. In the movies, Jor-El is NOT that way at all. Intelligent, kind, powerful yes, but compassionate and loving.

Which is the more accurate? I know Superman in the comics has taken on many different lives so to speak....

I thought this deserved to be in this thread since the films are my main interest. If you can, try not to use any Season 4 or 5 Smallville spoilers. Just finished the first disc of Season 4.

Thanks.

 

[Patrick Sun]

The TV show and the films just show different takes on the character (plus, Smallville is a re-interpretation of the Superman mythos as if he landed on earth around 1990, and they use elements of Superman's cast of characters to move the stories along, but tell their own version of how Clark becomes Superman one day). Don't try and shoehorn one interpretation of Jor-el from the TV series to the films, as both are based on some different bits from the comics, and Jor-el's characterization has been re-interpreted and expanded with different stories through the years. Just enjoy TV episodes and films for what they are.

 

[Tim Glover]

OK. Thanks Patrick.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

What Patrick said. I will add that Jor-El is definitely on the side of the angels in the comics from the thirties to the eighties. I haven't read enough of the more recent stuff to know how his character has been handled in the more current books.

 

[Bryan Ri]

Just listening to the soundtrack again today, and I wanted to gush about one of my favorite parts of the film:

During the plane rescue, as exciting as the action was, the most powerful aspect of it is easily the gradual reveal of Superman.

-Shot of Lois scared for her life, as she glances over and sees a flash of red and blue.

-Cut to a foot stepping on the plane.

-Cut to the reaction of the passengers hearing the sound.

-Cut back to Supes eyes,

-Cut to Supes lifting the shuttle, set to THE fanfare.

Perfect editing, great moment.

 

[Tino]

Looking forward to seeing this again in HD, hoping that I will enjoy it more.

 

[Tim Glover]

Hope you do too Tino.

And Bryan, those moments you listed are indeed wonderful. Imagine all those soon to be enjoyed in HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. I sound like a commercial for HD movies.

I'll say this, if that Plane rescue in Dolby TrueHD has close to the impact that the Batman Begins HD-DVD does....I will need to take the pictures down from the wall Unreal.

I know we're not getting it, but I would LOVE an isolated HD score on this one. Maybe on a special edition down the road.

 

[BrettGallman]

The very beginning of this one will give me goosebumps, especially with a TrueHD track. The house may cave in once Krypton explodes.

 

[Grant H]

Just to respond to your response to my earlier post, J-El, Superman giving up his life to save others, is pretty much a given. I think everyone knows if he had to die to save all of mankind, he'd do it. Heck, most people would, wouldn't they? You'd do it if you knew one person worth saving. So, I don't see that it adds anything to the character or makes him "at his most selfless." Most people will die for someone, whether it was taking a bullet for a loved one or saving their whole planet by shoving a Kryptonite-laced mass into outer space makes little difference. The only fantastic thing is the physical feat. There are an infinite number of ways to give one's life to save someone and certainly more than a handful of people who would do it.

I think it shows more of a "super" selflessness when one is willing to condemn oneself to a lifetime of personal isolation for the benefit of all mankind. Perhaps that's part of the image Singer was trying to create by having Superman "not get the girl," but he kind of gets to have his cake and eat it too now since he HAS close personal ties, whereas in Superman II, he gave up such personal relationships so that he could better serve humanity. (This element could perhaps be strengthened in a sequel since, really, Superman should have to give up being a part of their lives for their own protection. He'd have to stop following them around and observing them, even, because his enemies could follow him and see he takes an interest in them, jeaopordizing them and him.)

Again, if Singer's movie existed completely separate from the Donner universe, his concepts might work better, but if you have the sacrifice of Superman II in your head, Superman chasing tail and being ensured some close personal ties to Lois and his son can leave a bitter taste in your mouth. The noble sacrifice of Superman II is wiped away, and Superman is now only as selfless as all but the most soulless person.

The other comment from one of your posts I wanted to comment on was the idea that Superman fReturns faced a tougher challenge capturing a movie audience than Batman Begins because it had been so long since a Superman film came out vs. Batman which had a movie not so many years ago. I disagree with that comment 100%. The lack of a Superman film for almost 20 years created an APPETITE for one. If anything, it should have HELPED it. The anticipation of a new Star Wars film made TPM a smash, despite it being less than stellar. A better example would be the tremendous hunger for a Spider-Man film which helped its success.

There hadn't been a Superman film for this generation, so it was something totally new for them to enjoy. I wanted to see the Man of Steel back on the big screen after all those years. That's why I went.

Batman on the other hand actually had a recent film going AGAINST it. The fact that Batman & Robin left a not-distant-enough taste of manure in audience's mouths made it a tremendous feat to sell a new Batman film. People who were in on the development of Batman Begins had a rough idea what to expect, but that's a minority. The general audience could easily have passed it up thinking "not another Batman film, ugh." I certainly wouldn't have gone to see George Clooney in "Batman: Mr. Freeze Strikes Back." That the film performed so well is a testament to its quality. And, yes, I'm sure a lot of holdouts earned appreciation when it hit video. So there will be a HUGE audience waiting in line for The Dark Knight.

A Superman Returns sequel likely won't draw nearly as huge a crowd for the opening. If the movie is really stellar, however, positive word-of-mouth could punch up its numbers in the long run.

The Dark Knight basically has to be a total suckfest to not have a VERY successful return at the box office.

That does lead to one advantage for Superman Returns, I suppose. The Dark Knight has a tall order to fill. It must live up to the quality of Batman Begins, if not deliver more. I don't feel Superman Hasn't Left Since He Returned has much of anything to live up to. It has nowhere to go but up, so chances are whatever Singer comes up with is going to look good when you have Superman Returns as your reference point.

That's WIN-WIN for every potential audience member. Those who didn't care for SR (if they see the sequel) will be satisfied to see an improvement, and those who loved SR will be on Cloud 9. Response to the Dark Knight could potentially be much more varied.

 

[Adam Santangelo]

From the sequel thread:


Somehow it's become accepted, in the last couple pages of this thread, that SR was about Superman losing his connection with humanity and regaining it through the discovery of Jason. I just don't see this in the movie and never did.

You saw a deeper streak of selfishness in Singer's Superman than I did, Grant. The way I saw it, he clearly wasn't a selfless automaton and he certainly loved Lois - and maybe these are traits of a more "immature" Superman than the one you'd prefer to see - but when the chips were on the table, he chose saving Metropolis over Lois and Jason, and he chose serving humanity (and doing what was ultimately best for Lois) over being with the love of his life.

It would've been interesting if Lois and Jason had been killed on Lex's yacht while Superman was off protecting Metropolis... but I guess we've already seen that plot twist...

Anyway, I guess I just feel that it's easy to imagine Superman being 100% unconflicted and stopping bad guys. I can do that without waiting for a new Superman movie. It's more interesting to me when the "right" and "wrong" answers are not so obvious.

For instance, I would be interested in seeing a Superman film in which he attempts to deal with real problems that affect the world today... but if such a thing ever happens, you can be sure it will divide the fanbase in ways that make SR seem bland by comparison. (The Quest for Peace might actually have been a somewhat controversial film, if it hadn't been so laughably bad.)

 

[JonZ]

"The very beginning of this one will give me goosebumps, especially with a TrueHD track. The house may cave in once Krypton explodes."

Or when the meteor/ship lands.

"Somehow it's become accepted, in the last couple pages of this thread, that SR was about Superman losing his connection with humanity and regaining it through the discovery of Jason. I just don't see this in the movie and never did."

Me neither.

 

[todd s]

The more I think about it and discuss it with others. The more I am certain in my opinion that the whole Supes leaving, Lois moving on and even the kid. Would have been better off if it was the last part of the Singer-Trilogy of movies. Just consider the ending of the movie. He reconciles the fact that while he is the father...he can't be the father. Lois is with someone who can be there for her. And then he flies off to be Superman. That would have been a perfect ending point for this "new" series of movies.

 

[Adam Santangelo]

I kind of agree. I said something along these lines in the sequel thread. For me, SR feels like a great ending to the "Donner Trilogy" that never was.

 

[Tim Glover]

Just 10 more days until the HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, and SD-DVD arrive!

 

[Larry Sutliff]

Yeah, I can't wait! Although I'm not sure of what I'm more excited about, SR in high def or the Donner cut of SII.