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*** Official SUNSHINE Discussion Thread (2 Viewers)

SteveGon

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While I appreciate those sentiments (God knows (heh) there aren't enough films that extol Secular Humanism and the like), the fact that the message was delivered in such a muddled narrative (and there IS a difference between metaphorical and just plain sloppy storytelling) pretty much killed the film for me.
 

JohnRice

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Steve beat me to it. For me, it doesn't matter what the message is when the delivery is so messy. To continue some other examples, in The Fountain the message was abstract, but not lost. Tom Tykwer's (who I should point out is openly Atheist) Heaven was too out there for a lot of people, but a resounding success for me. In fact, it's theme is similar to what you see in Sunshine, just on a more intimate scale. My main problem is Sunshine continuously wandered with visual abstractions and muddled narration so much, whatever message is purported to have was virtually lost.

I'd just like to ad, without going into detail, that the fact even SteveGon doesn't accept the delivery of the message only reinforces my opinion that the movie simply doesn't work.


Anyway, neither of us will change the other's opinion. I just hope you understand I am most definitely not predisposed against the message. My gut feeling is you like it so much, you are not distracted by the narrative.
 

L. Anton Dencklau

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I also liked The Fountain, but that's kind of an odd film to cite, considering the timeline shifts and the same actor, multiple character stuff going there. That seems considerably more muddled than what's going on in Sunshine. I haven't seen Heaven, (I've been meaning to watch the Princess and the Warrior for a long time also) but I did see Perfume earlier this year, and anybody who gets the ending of the that story on screen deserves my $10. I'll have to go get the other two and check em out.

I don't want to belabor this too much, because if the 1000 words i've already written here aren't going to sway you, then I don't think anything else is. You mentioned muddled narration, I think there is only two pieces of narration in the film: the first is the opening statement right after the Fox logo, and the bit at the end where they replay the message to his sister over the sunrise at the opera house.

As for visual distraction, the wow visuals are pretty much part and parcel with this genre. Jupiter and beyond the infinite, and the like. This kind of story is what gets you to the point where you can put something like this:



on the screen, unless you do it in a dream sequence or something. That is pretty directly derived. I don't think the narrative is bad. I think the film starts with the metaphor and builds the narrative to support it, which is a kind of reversal, but not what I would call bad film making. Its just different.

Thank you for being civil though. these kind of topics tend to be minefields I was afraid that was the direction we were headed.
 

JonZ

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I dont think the narrative was bad until the end where I feel it got a bit too visually chaotic.

I do really like the movie.

Im gonna have to check out The Fountain, Heaven and Purfume.
 

JohnRice

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The Fountain and Heaven have some parallel to Sunshine, even if it is a bit of a stretch. I don't see much of a parallel to Perfume. It just happens to be directed by Tykwer, who also directed Heaven. I wouldn't be surprised if most people saw no parallels, but in the muddle of my mind there is.
 

Paul_D

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I absolutely loved this film. When I watched it in the theater my hands were literally gripped to the arm rests for the whole run time. Easily in my top 3 of last year with Jesse James and Bourne.

I also find John and Steves' comments about the delivery very surprising.



Although I loved it, I could understand criticisms of the switch to 'slasher' mode towards the end (metaphors aside, from a purely "well we've seen this one before!" point of view), and also the fact that in atmosphere and pacing it is very derivative of Alien. But in terms of narrative construction what was messy or sloppy? All the beats are there. With well drawn characters, and plenty of plot direction changes to maintain the tension. Also, I don't think scientific implausability matters so much for me because I bought into the "humanity has an absolutely minute chance of surviving and this is the only chance" scenario.

One of the major successes of the film for me was scale. More than any other film I've seen in the last few years this film made me feel tiny. Humanity is (and always has been) beset with problems like war, famine, political corruption, global warming and so on, which, in the context of our every day lives, feel insurmountable. But what if a crisis arises which jeopardises all life and that is (but for the faintest chance) out of our hands to stop? Stopped or not, the entire lifespan of humanity is a mere moment in a sea of time! I'm not saying this is a direct theme or message of the film, but overall it had a humbling effect on me, leaving me in awe at the size of the universe, our insignificance, and very grateful to be alive. To the detractors that probably sounds a tad excessive (;)). But to each his own.

Also, love it or hate it I would expect nothing but admiration for the film's technical qualities. The production design, sound design and SFX are marvelous, and Boyle and DOP have achieved a visually stunning combination of the extremes of light and dark on screen.

I've watched it at home several times since the first viewing and the impact is definitely diminshed (even on 50inch plasma), perhaps because it left such a big impression on me the first time. Still a big fan though.

Funny how some films divide people between the absolute extremes ain't it?!
 

JonZ

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"One of the major successes of the film for me was scale. More than any other film I've seen in the last few years this film made me feel tiny. "

"Also, love it or hate it I would expect nothing but admiration for the film's technical qualities. The production design, sound design and SFX are marvelous, and Boyle and DOP have achieved a visually stunning combination of the extremes of light and dark on screen."

Agree on both.
 

Scott-S

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I liked the first 90% of the movie. But that completely chaotic mess of quick edits at the end was way too much. In fact I was never sure if my DVD player was hicuping or if that was the editing.

I hate that they ruined a perfectly good movie with that epileptic editing.
 

David Brown Eyes

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I saw Sunshine yesterday.

I hated it. I love scifi from Star Wars, Star Trek, Alien to Blade Runner, 2001, The original Solaris, and Gataca. I love it all.

Sunshine dissapointed me in every way I could imagine.

Plot - old and tired, already done and more effectively
Dialog - just plain uninspired
Acting - same as dialog
Character developement - there was none.
Special effects - also bad, yea the images of the sun were pretty cool

This was, IMO, a retelling of Event Horizon but they pulled off one amazing feat. It was actually worse than Event Horizen. So much worse I almost feel that the people involved were actually trying to make a movie even worse than Event Horizen. If that was their goal then bravo... good show mates.

The plot has been done.
The set pieces have been done, and much more effectively in other movies.

The science was just laughably bad in all areas.

I want my 107 minutes back.
 

Doug Miller

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Thought I would give this a bump since I just got it on Netflix. I wanted to see this since the first time I heard the soundtrack on XM Radio's Cinemagic. I'd really break this movie down into 2 parts:

First Hour-Thru Icarus I: Terrific pacing and acting. I really felt like I was on the ship. When the Captain died while the shrink kept yelling "What do you see?" I teared up. It was really powerful with what's to me the most beautiful soundtrack I've heard in years.

After Icarus I: Ruined everything that was touching and sad about the first 2/3 of the movie.

I don't know why they forced the "bad guy" angle. Psedo-Science aside, this movie would have been near perfect if they never added that element. Imagine if they truly had to choose who lived and died in the final hours of the voyage. How much more effective could that movie have been? Same goes for launching the payload. I thought Cada launching off with the payload was the end -- It was like they were going to redeem everything that got lost with the bad guy, only to go to a final battel. It was too bad.

What this movie could have been....

Doug
 

Steve Kuester

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I just saw this yesterday (Netflix rental) and agree with Doug - The soundtrack was excellent, the first half of the film was great, the second half (or final 1/3) had me wishing they had stayed on the path the 1st half had set up. I actually let out an audible, disappointed sigh when I saw the bloody handprint once Cada was aboard the payload.

Speaking of the soundtrack, I looked on a few websites and couldn't find it anywhere. I assume one has been released? Anyone have it? If so, where did you get it?
 

Justin_S

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Unfortunately, the soundtrack has not been released. I'm hoping they'll release it in the near future, but all signs point to that being unlikely.
 

Chuck Mayer

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Soundtrack released at iTunes yesterday.

For those of us still interested
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif
 

Edwin-S

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This thing reminded me of "Below", but in space rather than undersea. "Below" did it better. I'm also getting tired of the Hollywood penchant of portraying anyone who gains a belief in God as a raving lunatic.
 

Jason Seaver

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The interesting thing about it is that the writer and director disagreed on that subject - according to interviews, the writer saw it as an atheist film, while the director saw it differently. In the end, I don't think the argument that it portrays "anyone who gains a belief in God as a raving lunatic" has much merit, but it does come down pretty hard on idolatry and zealotry: Whether an audience member believes in God or not, it's Pinbacker being seduced by the nearest powerful thing and being willing to kill in its name that is the heart of darkness here.

I think that's part of what makes Sunshine such a great science fiction movie, in that the audience can see both a mirror and a critique within it. Of course, I also tend to think that the Hollywood penchant is also generally to soften any critique of religion, so I'm likely seeing it differently.
 

Edwin-S

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I guess it really comes down to different interpretations. When I watched it, I heard Pinbacker referring to God more than once in his ranting and raving. I didn't hear him ranting much about idolatry. I agree with the writer's belief that the film is atheistic, since he made sure to make the character referencing God into a raving, murderous lunatic.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not particularly religious. I'm just tired of Hollywood portraying people affected by some kind of spiritual event as raving nutters willing to kill in the name of their God, whatever it may be.
 

Kirk Tsai

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Pinbacker is precisely someone who wouldn't say anything about idolatry, because he is a fallen victim of it.

My objection to Pinbacker as slasher isn't so much thematic as aesthetic. The filmmakers have set up his return and themes related throughout the movie. I understand the point of the the blurry, distorted and shaky shots with him--he's alien, a force beyond recognition, extremely unstable, touched by madness, etc. It's also a pain to watch.
 

Chris Atkins

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I pretty much agree with Edwin. The film makes Pinbacker a madman, and with a few throwaway references to God, we are expected to go along with the fact that it was religious zeal that drove him to madness. It's paper thin and one dimensional, and not terribly intelligent screenwriting or social commentary.
 

Michael Reuben

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I'm surprised at this reaction, because I never once saw Pinbacker as being affected by a "spiritual event". The only character in Sunshine to whom I'd apply that description is Cliff Curtis' Searle, and the most distinguishing characteristic of his spirituality is that we see him experiencing it, but we don't hear him talking a lot about it. (This happens to mirror my experience in life, but I digress.)

I didn't give Pinbacker's ravings any more weight than I would the claims of a man to be Napoleon or Xenon, Ruler of the Universe.

As an aside, I'd say it's a major stretch to consider Danny Boyle and Alex Garland as "Hollywood" filmmakers. At best, Hollywood only co-produces them, usually through an indie division like Fox Searchlight. I doubt their work would never make it intact through a major studio's production process.
 

Edwin-S

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I haven't seen too many films by the people in question. I just found that this film reminded me of a typical Hollywood Sci-Fi Horror flick.
 

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