*** Official STAR WARS Saga (episodes I to VI) Discussion Thread: Part 4 (1 Viewer)

[Anthony_De]

After seeing all 3 prequels I don't understand why Anakin didn't just leave the Jedi Order. At the end of Episode I there's resistance to him becoming a Padawan. In Episode II the Council's still wary of him, plus he expresses tension with Obi-Wan, and he falls in love with and marries Padme. Episode III rolls around - still distrust from the Council, he's pulled away from Padme by the war and secrecy, and now she's pregnant so everything is going to be revealed anyway. Why not just walk away? A priest can leave their Church, is a Jedi not allowed to leave the Order? He wasn't even made a Master yet. He was certainly skilled enough to help keep peace in some other division. Or he and Padme could've escaped to some remote place and led a quiet life.

That's why I think the Council was right and not simply being arrogant or dogmatic. It was Anakin's attachments that led him to the Darkside. They're selective for a reason. He should've hung up his lightsaber while the gettin' was good, no shame in that. I'm sure there are others in the Galaxy who can use the Force but aren't, or don't want to be, Jedi.

And for me in cheapens Luke's plan to save his father. It seems less like Vader finally realized what he'd done was wrong and more like he saved Luke in place of saving Padme. Luke really played no role besides making Anakin flash back to events 30 years ago.

It's just things like this why I disregard the PT and consider it to be one big inconsistency.

 

[Matt Stone]

It was Anakin's attachments that led him to the Darkside.

Who said it wasn't? Vader watching the Emperor do to Luke what he had stood by and let happen so many times (Mace Windu's death, allowing Padme to fall, etc), he finally had the balls to make the right choice. Seems pretty solid to me, and definitely not cheap.

I made this argument when Paul and I were arguing about ROTJ a couple months ago, and I'll make it again. Anakin led a life of servitude to the Jedi. He made a power-play jumping to the dark side thinking he would finally gain more power and respect, but in the end just ended up serving a different master. This is where the animosity exists between Anakin/Vader and the Emperor. Vader asked Luke to join him and overthrow the Emperor (which some said was inconsistent in regards to Vader's character), but 20 years earlier he asked the same thing of Padme. Once Padme was dead (and his child with her as he believed), he had no motivation to change the status quo. He had lost everyone he cared about (his mother, Padme, unborn child).

 

[Chuck Mayer]

I disagree that Leia would turn. It's her idealism and loyalty that keeps the rebellion alive. She NEVER would have compromised.

One thing I miss in the PT, especially ROTS are the Padme/ Leia connections. I know the focus is Luke and Anakin, but add that deleted scene of Padme and the genesis of the rebellion.

I'm still a Leia fan, you turncoats.

Where you see bitchy...I see brave.

Take care,

Chuck

 

[Matt Stone]

Where you see bitchy...I see brave.

You could say the same thing about Anakin, though. He thought what he was doing was right, without the proper guidance (from OBW/Yoda), I could see Leia making a similar mistake. The only difference would be that it would plunge the republic/empire into chaos instead of order.

 

[Kevin Grey]

I think he might have if things had turned out differently in Episode 3. But since there was a war on he felt obligated to see it through.

And yes, you can leave the order. Dooku did just that along with 19 others known as "the lost twenty."

 

[Kevin Grey]

Reminds of that quote from Gandalf in FOTR: (paraphrased) "my intentions would be good but through me it would wield terrible power."

Just because your intentions may be honorable does not protect you from the dark side. Once the power consumes you I don't think there is really much choice anymore. Anakin's offer to Padme to rule the galaxy goes back to his conversation with her at the waterfalls in AOTC- the people should be made to do what's right for them. He's well intentioned but obviously wrong.

 

[Matt Stone]

Just because your intentions may be honorable does not protect you from the dark side.

Are you disagreeing with me? That was exactly my point.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

But how does that impact Leia?

You folks down on her are making some extraordinarily strong assumptions about a very principled person. When was Leia selfish? Dishonest? When did Leia hide her feelings like her birth father?

Leia had the proper guidance. Her actual father, Bail.

It's reaching to claim she'd fail where Luke passed.

I was thinking the other day that she'd have been a great choice to train and prepare. Events didn't go that way though.

Take care,

Chuck

 

[Kevin Grey]

No- agreeing. More in response to Chuck's comment about idealism and loyalty. I don't think either protect you from the dark side. I'm not saying she would have turned either though. It would certainly be interesting.

 

[Matt Stone]

Gotcha, Kevin. I thought you were trying to "put me in my place"

Leia had the proper guidance. Her actual father, Bail.

I hadn't thought of that. I guess I could see her "passing" the test, but I think between Luke and Leia, Leia would be more apt to act rashly. If anything, the films have shown her as a take-action gal, which could be a weakness. I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that it could have gone either way.

 

[Richard Kim]

You folks down on her are making some extraordinarily strong assumptions about a very principled person. When was Leia selfish? Dishonest? When did Leia hide her feelings like her birth father?

Well, Leia allowed Chewie to throttle Lando once he freed them from the stormtroopers in Cloud City.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

And Luke force choked some guards on Tatooine.
Idealism and loyalty are what saved Anakin. His son's idealism...his son's loyalty. So those are valuable traits to have. I just don't like seeing Leia trashed because she is a strong woman.
It's unseemly,
Chuck

 

[Richard Kim]

And Luke force choked some guards on Tatooine.

Because they were a direct threat to him. It was in self defense.

Leia, OTOH, allows Chewbacca to lay some hurting on Lando, in revenge for Han, even though he's trying to make amends for his mistakes.

 

[Haggai]

I don't think that was just out of revenge for Han, since they must have figured that Lando might be just about to turn around and betray them again. Obviously they were wrong about that, and 3-PO's "trust him" instinct was right, but it's understandable that they only ended up trusting him because they realized they had no other choice.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Lots of folks were a threat to Luke. He never force choked them, something we've only, ONLY ever seen Vader do. Not until those guards, who were hardly a grave threat.
Leia didn't allow that much of a hurting, and she stopped as soon as she realized he could help her friends.
Are we really trying to question Leia's heroism here?
Take care,
Chuck

 

[Greg_S_H]

Hello, thread.
(Just trying to get a dot on my icon )
Oh, and Leia rocks. She is no Dark Side candidate. When she found out Vader was on the DSII, she just told Luke to run away. She didn't say, "I'm going up and kicking that bastard's ass myself!"
Besides, he didn't really blow up her planet. It was all that creep Tarkin's doing. Now him, she might force lightning to death.

 

[Greg_S_H]

"Pull my finger."
Heh. In that light, check out the expression on that other guy's face. "NO! I'M BACK HERE!"

 

[Matt Stone]

When she found out Vader was on the DSII, she just told Luke to run away. She didn't say, "I'm going up and kicking that bastard's ass myself!"

Correct, but running away would have been the wrong move as well.

 

[Greg_S_H]

I know, but she was worried for Luke. I don't think she was looking at any bigger picture right there. It's actually kind of interesting when you think about it. You could take it as, "We're going to blow the DS up. Is saving his soul worth it?"

 

[Richard Kim]

Lots of folks were a threat to Luke. He never force choked them, something we've only, ONLY ever seen Vader do. Not until those guards, who were hardly a grave threat.

So is Luke slicing people up with a lightsaber any better than Force choking?

Going by that logic, was it really necessary for Yoda to violently Force push the Imperial guards in ROTS? It can be aruged that those guards were hardly a grave threat to Yoda, too.