Shutter Island (2010) (1 Viewer)

[leonry]

What about the references to Portland and Seattle. Everytime the character DiCaprio asked about Portland, the other "marshall" kept saying he was from Seattle. DiCaprio's character kept looking confused about this. I don't understand the relation other than Portland Maine and Portland Oregon... Just confused me too but I thought the movie was great after viewing it twice. There were lots of clues to DiCaprio being the crazy one. It seems that Burt Lancaster played in a movie similar to this long ago about a patient who thought he was the head of the hospital but all the time the patients were the doctors and were trying to fix him by role playing. I can't remember the movie though. maybe I'm the crazy one

 

[Pete York]

So the doctor in the cave is Teddy's delusion, right? I had the same thought as benbess about the rats, and then in the ensuing scene the Kingsley character asks Teddy about 'seeing nightmares' or something, indicating the rats (a common phobia) and everything after is an episode in his head. Or is there some case for the doctor to be either a) a real life, in-on-it participant in the role play; or b) an actual rogue element in the 'island as a house of horrors' plot that Michael above subscribes to?

 

[Edwin-S]

I thought it was a pretty good film. I suspected fairly early on that DiCaprio's character was a nutter, but it took awhile for my suspicions to be confirmed. The only problem that I had with the film was its length. It dragged a bit and felt like it could have been edited down a bit more.

Edit: I just wanted to add that although most people probably figured out the "ending" of this film, I doubt that anyone worked out, in advance, the actual end of this film which was that DiCaprio's character was returned to "sanity" and fakes "insanity" in order to bring about his lobotomization which proved that he was actually incurably insane no matter whether he lived in his fantasy or in his reality.

 

[Jeff_Standley]

Finally got a chance to watch this movie this last weekend and enjoyed it. Not my favorite Scorsese film, but still very well done.
My only question is about Leo/Teddy being on the boat and going to the island in the beginning.
Was this explained and I missed it?
How does he end up on the boat without knowing he had been taken off the island for the role play experiment in the first place?

 

Wow. Shutter Island is one of the best movies I've ever seen... but not until the 2nd time around! Once you know the end, it opens up an entirely new dimension to the movie. Incredible acting, directing, and attention to detail all around. I won't bother to address the obvious twist and debate of the movie- read everyone else's explanations first then come back to this one. Yes, Andrew was crazy. While others have pretty much analyzed the movie to death and have gotten it pretty close overall, there's one thing that no explanation I've read has picked up on yet.... which adds an entirely new dimension to an already masterful work of a movie.
TEDDY ALREADY HAD A LOBOTOMY.
To calm him down enough to try the role play. (Remember? He's "the most dangerous patient they have")
The "final" scene, which the viewer is meant to believe is the morning after his final realization of the truth, is actually not chronologically in order. He's wearing different clothes, which is obvious. Still don't believe me? Look at the trees....
The day of his realization, the grounds are utterly destroyed. The trees have all lost their leaves, and broken limbs and dead leaves from the hurricane make the grounds look like a war zone. The so-called "next morning"?
It's flawless.
The trees have their leaves, the flowers are in bloom, and the grounds are cleaned up perfectly. And....
He no longer has the band-aid on his forehead, or the scar it was covering up (that was revealed after his band-aid comes off in the shower)! This scar is from either his first lobotomy or the electroshock therapy given to him beforehand.
It is because of the initial pre-orbital lobotomy(which he chooses to have at the "end" of the movie) that he has his headaches and clutches his eves in pain throughout the role playing excercise. His eyes, throughout the entire movie, also have very prominent bags under them- except for the "final" scene, which was pre-lobotomy!
So what happened to Andrew in the end? Well, it's kinda up in the air. Throughout the movie, Dolores keeps telling "Teddy" that if he goes to the lighthouse, it will be the "end of him". Whether this means that Andrew will die or that Teddy will cease to be, is unclear. Andrews true final scene is less than a second long, where he falls to the floor, wearing white, while the screen goes white as well. If this isn't a classic death or salvation image I don't know what is. Whether he died on his own or finally got over his psychosis doesn't matter- either way he finds peace.
Scorsese is a genius.

 

[kratosguy91]

Quote: You may be quiet right on this but, it still leaves me with a few questions.

When in the lighthouse Dr. C. warns Andrew/Teddy that if this role playing activity doesn't work then Andrew will be lobotimized. Why warn Andrew if he's already been lobotomized? Is this refering to some form of second lobotomy :S?

You say that andrews "true final scene" is when he falls to the floor, while dressed in white (Which was in the light house, if I'm not mistaken) if this is his last scene, then when does the scene directly after that take place? The scene in which Dr. S./Chuck, Dr. C., The nurse who portrayed Racheal Salondo, and The warden, surround andrew on his bed. Would this not be Andrew's final scene in the movie? Perhaps, his final line even being "My name is Andrew Laettus, and I klled my wife in the spring of 52""

In the final scene in the movie (which may not be the final scene in the timeline) we are expected to believe that after this roll-playing experiment that, Chuck, and Doctor C. are waiting to see if Andrew knows who he is, and what he's done. Yet, how could he know this if he hadn't yet gone through the roll playing experiment? Was this an occurence perhaps "9 months ago" when andrew had his first "entrance back into reality"? If so, and Andrew was Labotomized at the end of this scene, then why would his scar need a bandage, for 9 months?

Also, A question to anyone really. I still don't fully understand the discussion with Goerge Nauss. George is under the assumption that Andrew/Teddy is responsible for George being on shutter island for a 2nd time, why is this? Is it merely paranoia?

Pls excuse any spelling mistakes in the names. Also, I don't pretend to know everthing that happens in this movie. I've got more questions right now, then I do answers.

Originally Posted by Brian Berry
TEDDY ALREADY HAD A LOBOTOMY.
To calm him down enough to try the role play. (Remember? He's "the most dangerous patient they have")
The "final" scene, which the viewer is meant to believe is the morning after his final realization of the truth, is actually not chronologically in order. He's wearing different clothes, which is obvious. Still don't believe me? Look at the trees....
The day of his realization, the grounds are utterly destroyed. The trees have all lost their leaves, and broken limbs and dead leaves from the hurricane make the grounds look like a war zone. The so-called "next morning"?
It's flawless.
The trees have their leaves, the flowers are in bloom, and the grounds are cleaned up perfectly. And....
He no longer has the band-aid on his forehead, or the scar it was covering up (that was revealed after his band-aid comes off in the shower)! This scar is from either his first lobotomy or the electroshock therapy given to him beforehand.
It is because of the initial pre-orbital lobotomy(which he chooses to have at the "end" of the movie) that he has his headaches and clutches his eves in pain throughout the role playing excercise. His eyes, throughout the entire movie, also have very prominent bags under them- except for the "final" scene, which was pre-lobotomy!
So what happened to Andrew in the end? Well, it's kinda up in the air. Throughout the movie, Dolores keeps telling "Teddy" that if he goes to the lighthouse, it will be the "end of him". Whether this means that Andrew will die or that Teddy will cease to be, is unclear. Andrews true final scene is less than a second long, where he falls to the floor, wearing white, while the screen goes white as well. If this isn't a classic death or salvation image I don't know what is. Whether he died on his own or finally got over his psychosis doesn't matter- either way he finds peace.
Scorsese is a genius.

 

[shutterlover]

However, the ending as played is possibly even more horrifying. Andrew's last words to Chuck implied (to me at least) that he'd faked a relapse because he wanted to be lobotomized. He couldn't take what he'd done, both at Dachau and behind his house, and so to him being lobotomized was a way of purifying himself and dying as a good man rather than living with his burden.

I know this might be far off but it was just a thought. Does anyone else possibly think that Ed Daniels (or forced to be labeled as Andrew Laeddis) was actually not insane? But that through the experiences he went through inside that hospital was too much for him to bare? And like the "real" Rachel Solando said, once you're deemed insane, there's really no way out of it? Regarding the scene from when we first see his partner turning into the long-time psychiatrist until the ending scene where they were talking on the steps, does anyone else possibly think that Chuck just couldn't bear to be in this place alone (after their scene on the edge of the cliff where Ed tells Chuck that he needs to get to that lighthouse alone) and gave in to the psychological game that this hospital was playing and agreed to pretend to be the psychiatrist? That maybe under the table they had agreed to set him free if he complied? I don't know, but the last words Ed (or Andrew) says in the movie seems to be able to be interpreted this way.

 

[dejavu05]

Hello all!

First post here! I recently watched Shutter Island and loved it. Although at the very end, I have a question which I believe boils down to an opinion. At the end when Leonardo DiCaprio poses the question "Is it better to live as a monster, or to die as a good man?", does Chuck understand that the treatment worked?

If we, as the audience, understand that DiCaprio realizes he is Laeddis, shouldn't Chuck? Many of you might say yes, of course he realizes that DiCaprio understands and doesn't need a lobotomy, but Chuck is willing to let him go. But in the last word, why does Chuck call DiCaprio "Teddy", instead of "Andrew"? In my mind, calling him Teddy tells the audience that Chuck does not realize that DiCaprio understands he is Laeddis.

I don't know if this is a goof in scripting or if Chuck really doesn't understand. Would love to hear your opinion!

 

[Twoiron757]

See intriguing review of Shutter Island in the context of a New York Times Book Review front page review:
http://www.underlyingpatterns.blogspot.com/
Some original thoughts.

 

[Twoiron757]

The treatment did not work, and DiCaprio's line indicates just that: he is opting for his self-image of being a good man--the agent--not the guy who killed his family. The latter is the reality, and DiCaprio's character is opting for the defensive fantasy of a blameless man investigating skullduggery for the good of the world!

You are right, in communicating this line, there is a glimmer or recognition of who he really is, but it is absolutely fleeting. The recognition is ending with the end of the sentence! It is a line uttered by the subconscious or unconscious mind, whatever psychiatrists would label it. They would have to tell you if patients really do that. But for the movie, it is a necessary device to signal to the world, that the character is letting go of reality.

We all let go of reality. The movie is about us. We bury in our minds the things we do that are inconsiderate or damaging. We prefer not to analyze them. Did this particular behavior pattern during 10-15 years of our life, which we thought was harmless, have a hugely negative impact on our children? We prefer not to think about it. In living, we all create a part of our children, by encouragement of that part, and kill another part. Hopefully it all turns out well. Few of us really want to think it through...How good were we, really as parents. What could they have been? Are they successful? Are they shallow? Are they sensitive people who probe the world? (Shouldn't that be the goal?) Or do we and they just pretend that they are?

Shutter Island is not soley about mental patients, though it is beautifully synced with the real transition of psychiatry from pure counselling, to dispensing the psychoactive drugs that were just becoming available at the time. That transition is a shadow game, though, for a larger phenomenon: all of American society was turning away from the self-analysis as a way of life, pre-eminent in the early sixties, when Jack Paar was king of the nighttime airwaves, and Hitchcock ruled the movie theater and TV land, to illusions, first with drugs, then with forever more escapist media and recreational pursuits, until we come to today, when "reality show" is a code word for a narrow focus on some sort of insulated, self-indulgent turn from what our real impact is, and what the wider world is really like.

Shutter Island is about each of us, and the collective us, and what we have chosen to do.

As such, it is underrated, even as a four-star movie. (Many of the reviews were very shallow, perceiving it as simply a psychological thriller.) It is one of the great movies of our time, and in my opinion, will become a classic effort in multiple layers of meaning. The movie is more than it seems. (Apparently, only John Anderson's review in the Wall Street Journal fathoms this.)

The only movie I have seen similar to this, in its wider life symbolism, is Cool Hand Luke (1967). Shutter Island is goes even deeper.

See www.underlyingpatterns.blogspot.com for more on this.

 

[star1988]

I know this might be far off but it was just a thought. Does anyone else possibly think that Ed Daniels (or forced to be labeled as Andrew Laeddis) was actually not insane? But that through the experiences he went through inside that hospital was too much for him to bare? And like the "real" Rachel Solando said, once you're deemed insane, there's really no way out of it? Regarding the scene from when we first see his partner turning into the long-time psychiatrist until the ending scene where they were talking on the steps, does anyone else possibly think that Chuck just couldn't bear to be in this place alone (after their scene on the edge of the cliff where Ed tells Chuck that he needs to get to that lighthouse alone) and gave in to the psychological game that this hospital was playing and agreed to pretend to be the psychiatrist? That maybe under the table they had agreed to set him free if he complied? I don't know, but the last words Ed (or Andrew) says in the movie seems to be able to be interpreted this way.

[COLOR= black]The possibility that teddy "conspiracy theory” is true is very high and most likely because he know/investigate too much. He was lure to this island just like what his partner said.[/COLOR]
[COLOR= black]Firstly, is there any logic to just set aside an island for a Hospital for the Criminally Insane? Secondly why would a hospital/jail only have 67 patient (there more working staff than patient, patient may have died for whatever reason)? Thirdly is there any reason for the stand-alone lighthouse to so heavily fence? Fourth, if what they said about teddy being a patient in this hospital for 2 years is true, why in e world would there be no patients who recognise him. The staff can act all they want but you cannot ask the other 66 lunatic to coordinate a play so perfectly[/COLOR]
[COLOR= black]And no doctor/nurse professional in their right mind would want to work on an island and no institute would want to financially support an hospital/jail (67 patient) out of goodwill for the patient unless there is something more profitable like human experiments? [/COLOR]
[COLOR= black]This is year 1954 we are talking about, human experiments is not uncommon. The possibility that teddy "conspiracy theory” is true is very high and most likely because he know/investigate too much. He was lure to this island just like what his partner said.[/COLOR]
[COLOR= black] At the start of the show, his cigarettes may have been stolen (He insisted that he had his in his pockets) and chuck offered him cigarettes that have been drugged with [/COLOR]neuroleptic narcotics[COLOR= black], he was already drugged before he even got to the island which may explain his headache and other mild symptoms which we observed. When they have to surrender their fire arms, look at the way terry surrender his arms and his partner. He is a pro and His partner is clearly a novice that had trouble, this also again point out the possibility that his partner is not a marshal but may be a psychiatrist like what that state or a spy/agent meant to throw terry into the plot.[/COLOR]
[COLOR= black]The only purpose left for him to be there was to be brainwash. We had to take note that his hallucination did not came from thin air, every hallucination he had experience was based on the information that was feed to him. The paper note written “The law of 4 and who is 67”, teddy wasn’t the one who came up with this theory and neither was [/COLOR]Rachel Solando a name he though off. This only makes sense because the doctor wanted it to.
The story about Rachel killing and drowning her three children was some information they drill deeply into terry brain by one of the patient Breene. How in the world would a prisoner/patient have access to e exact details of how Rachel killed her children especially when Rachel is oblivion to this fact, e only explanation is Breene may be one of the possible agent. And the old lady after Breene hinted Terry to run when Chuck was away. Her action may prove that she does not trust chuck or she know that Chuck was not a marshal
[COLOR= black]There are no nazi experiments in that guarded lighthouse because you would not leave any single evidence if you know that marshal are coming to your island for investigation[/COLOR]
[COLOR= black]You know, I have built something valuable here, and valuables things have a way of being misunderstood in their own time. Everyone want a quick fix, they always do. I am trying to do things that people yourself included, don’t understand. And I am not going to give it up without a fight (This statement is clearly a threat to teddy for his interference with the doc human experiment)[/COLOR]
[COLOR= black]Everything they said is bullshit, there is no reason to go through all this role play just for one person because he is violent, trained and dangerous. You can just restraint and locked them out .Which mentally ill criminal are not dangerous, if they are really dangerous, then all e more shutter island exist for them to allow them to live in their twisted fantasy[/COLOR]
And it common sense that anyone under the influence on drugs/alcohol are more sceptical to believed whatever shit that is being told to them not to mention that he may be on neuroleptic narcotics. The dream he have may be based on the information he was feed at the end and under the influence of neuroleptic narcotics.
[COLOR= black]The [/COLOR][COLOR= black]"Is it better to live as a monster, or to die as a good man, this statement can actually imply that he can choose to live as a lunatic(acceptance that he kill his wife) or to die with his sanity.[/COLOR]
[COLOR= black]And at e very end, his partner chuck call him teddy but not Laeddis. E role play was long over, if chuck was really his psychiatrist that was with him for e past 2 years. Out of habit or as his role as a psychiatrist, he should be more liable to call him Laeddis but not teddy.[/COLOR]
[COLOR= black]And if we take into consideration that every single character that he interact with in the show was real including the real Rachael. Then this is e most logical conclusion, he was lure to be brainwash or to be silence if they failed to cover up for the evil conspiracy[/COLOR]
[COLOR= black]The woman in the cave pretty much tells him that once someone labels you as being insane, there's really nothing you can do because if you try to prove your sane then the doctors will just use this as proof that you are crazy. This is his reality, e moment he steps into Shutter Island, it is his loss, and he knows it and he accept it. [/COLOR]

 

[JennyB]

Don't know if this will be of interest to anyone here, but I saw that Shutter Island had been nominated in the 'Most Awesome Movie of the Year' category at the Virgin Media Movie Awards.

http://www.virginmedia.com/movies/awards/most-awesome-movie.php

Not sure if it will win against some of the other contenders, but thought it was interesting to see it there never the less!

 

[fashionbird]

Did Teddy get the idea (of opting for a lobotomy) from the Nazi guy in his dreams who tried to shoot himself? When the Nazi general knew they would be captured he opted to commit suicide instead of 'living as a monster'.

 

[cowboy16]

just watched this film, had to come online to get other peoples opinions..

this is my interpretation..

first of all, i think teddy is genuine, he's been set up to come to this island because his past is perfect. (had his house burned down while his wife was inside, WWII etc..lots of trauma) straight off his 'partner' chuck is supplying his ciggarettes so hes on the bad stuff from the word go. he tells chuck that he's already been investigating the island prior to ariving there, and if secret experiments are going on there then the information teddy already knows is dangerous to the future of the island should he leave with his sanity. lots of mind games are played on him throughout the film, leading to him becoming insane. however, as we know teddy is a very smart man and i believe the drugs/mind games combination wasnt enough to bring down such a strong mind. teddy retains his sanity throughout the film, and eventually decides to play along, as it seems to be an easy way out. remember in the cave..(yes the number of rats was irrational but he's on drugs remember!) rachel tells him that the purpose of the island is not to try and cure insane people, but to 'create' people that can be sent out into the 'real world' to commit acts no ordinary man or woman could. for me this links to the final scene, where teddy says "Is it better to live as a monster, or to die as a good man' the drugs have failed at this point and teddy is still sane and knows if he leaves the island, he may be likely to commit terrible acts, as the island intends its patients to do, so he makes the choice to die a good man (accepting a labotomy by continuing to rightfully claim he is a marshall) teddy is very clever, beats the shutter island system and sacrifices himself in order to save people in the real world who he may have been programmed to kill. ?????? who knows

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Interesting idea, but if the people running the island wanted him to go out and do stuff, why would they lobotomize him?

 

[cowboy16]

haha since i first posted on here a million other scenarios have gone through my mind..
but maybe they are obliged to lobotomise him simply to stop him spreading his knowledge onto other patients etc, or should he ever escape?

 

[ianboyextreme]

I am not sure if someone has wrote this yet but.... What is so perfect about this movie is not that there is some crazy plot twist, but that it is made to be completely up to the viewer what they want to be true.
Every speck of evidence for either scenario works for both of them perfectly.
I personally believe that Teddy was not at all crazy, but had memories implanted and then forfeit his life at the end rather than live in that evil place.
I also (being biased towards Teddy being sane) believe that showing the lighthouse as the final shot indicates that the conspiracy was real, though i'm sure someone who believes Teddy was crazy could find a way for that to point to their point of view.
Thats why this movie is so great, it''s truly one of a kind in being the only film that I know of, that allows the viewer to decide what was real and what was not, with no inhibitions to their decision.

 

[Sam Posten]

Welcome to HTF Ian, that's a pretty good first post =)
I'd say Inception matches Shutter in the regard you point to, you can make a case for either possibility and on first blush you might not even realize that the other outcome is just as likely until you really start digging through the evidence or have someone else who took it that opposite direction points it out to you. I'd say Blade Runner also has this effect. Is Deckard human or not?
And it's just that uncertainty that leads to grand philosophical questions of varying orders. What is film. What does it mean to be human. What is truth.
fun and heady stuff. Or you can just enjoy the film if that's your bag.

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Don't get me started on Blade Runner!!!

 

[Sam Posten]

Oh, a button I can push! Poke the bear, poke the bear! =)
What specifically don't you like about BR? The ambivalence? Or something else?