*** Official SAW Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Niko Nykanen, Oct 29, 2004.

  1. Marvin Richardson

    Marvin Richardson Supporting Actor

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    You know what, I really don't appreciate being called a liar by either one of you. I'm sorry if you didn't figure out the blindingly obvious, but I did and so did my wife. Nobody noticed that they were only showing the bad guy in flashbacks? Never in the present? Wasn't it obvious that Zep was in on it in some way? Wasn't it also obvious that he wasn't smart enough to do this on his own?
    You know, I've never said this on the forum before, but after being called a liar by two people; ..Edited out by moderator.
     
  2. Adam_WM

    Adam_WM Screenwriter

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    I thought Zep was involved. He seemed like an eerily out of place character in the hospital scene. So honestly, I wasn't too surprised when Zep was "revealed" as the killer. However, there was no was I would have figured that the real killer wasn't dead.
     
  3. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    yup! i totally cracked up when that happened. i thought that was a nice touch too...good thinking on the killer's part.

    for a rental, i admit i enjoyed it. but i'm glad i didn't pay 8 bucks to see it.

    what i like is the concept...the idea of being stuck in a room and trying to figure out wtf is going on. that would spook the hell out of me.
     
  4. Seth Paxton

    Seth Paxton Lead Actor

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    My point at the time was that because it was cribbed so much from Se7en, the film couldn't fall back on "sure it was sloppy or cheap, but what a great idea".

    It was an okay idea, an interesting alteration of previous hit horror/thrillers. Fine. Now make it in a way that is gripping, if not expensive looking. That's where the film became bad.

    If you are doing formula, template or cribbing, you have to bring your A game in the execution to justify it.
     
  5. Joe Kamsan

    Joe Kamsan Stunt Coordinator

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    You'll get no argument from me. There wasn't much originality in the idea to begin with and I felt the twists in the turn were too contrived, illogical and just didn't 'sell' the premise to me. It almost felt like a parody of Seven, rather than a homage/rip off. But I just think that you could do worse than crib from a movie like that. Like I said, the execution of it was the problem.

    I do feel however, that the film-makers did the best with what (little) they had. There were some good moments in the film, but they were outweighed by the bad unfortunately. Eg. Glover's and Elwes's acting as a main example. I also did not understand why Adam was targeted by the killer. Maybe to serve as a pawn in the game? That would fly in the face of the killers m.o. of targeting people who "didn't appreciate what they had". Kevin Spacey's John Doe in Seven was meticulous and calculating in this regard.

    Incidently I screened Seven a week a go and I'll be dammned if it still isn't a great film.
     
  6. JonathonSan

    JonathonSan Stunt Coordinator

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    I think the killers m.o. in the case of the doctor was his cheating on his wife...he didn't appreciate his family enough. That is why Zep was terrorizing the family, to make the doctor appreciate them again. Just my take.
     
  7. rich_d

    rich_d Cinematographer

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    I think Al Stuart brought up some good points on the first page of this thread. But I must admit, reading many of the other responses was about as bad as the film.

    I don't think anyone has specifically touched on the mindset of the jigsaw guy. Let's see, I who will be losing my life will dedicate myself to shocking people that are wasting their lives. Interesting. So devaluing a life by having a junkie rip a key out of someone's stomach will show them the value of life? Right. So showing a doctor the value of wife and child will make him appreciate them more. And what exactly will all this torture do for the wife and child exactly? Or have their lives been enrichen too? Please.

    I will make some orderly do what I say because not only am I an electronics expert I also have a created a slow-acting poison that only I have the antidote for. Where is the water tank with sharks with friggin' lasers on their heads?

    This film is all a con game where the filmmakers hope that there are enough people will turn off their brains so that that the big lies don't matter.

    I also didn't like the Fincher overkill. To me that's not an homage, that is more lazy ripoff. However, the Rear Window flashbulb in the dark homage was just that a nice homage.


    Sorry for singling you out but you are a poor filmmaker's wet dream - a movie-goer whose expectations are extremely low.

    I would counter that we need film fans that want/insist that the bar is raised on films and don't settle for senseless movies that allow the filmmaker to laugh all the way to the bank.

    It's our choice.
     
  8. Brett_B

    Brett_B Supporting Actor
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    Would you care to elaborte on the specifics, especially "insist that the bar is raised".
     
  9. rich_d

    rich_d Cinematographer

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    Each of us can make a difference. But you asked for specifics. If I saw this film at Sundance, I wouldn't just quietly leave my seat at the end but boo the hell out of it. If enough people did that I think it would have made an impression on those thinking about buying the film.

    Perhaps some people would consider that rude. I would consider it fair game when you spend your time seeing a film. Let the potential distributors know that the Emperor is not wearing any clothes, so to speak.

    Word of mouth can also make or break any film. Bunch of people at Sundance tell others to ignore this mess and half empty screenings will also give distributors a clue.

    There are a couple specifics right there.

    But that is only my opinion. Someone else might think that the horror genre should just be mindless gore-laden films that serve the mindless horror fans that go to see them. Respectively I disagree on both points.
     
  10. Adam_WM

    Adam_WM Screenwriter

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    Now, wait a minute. You're telling me that because I don't expect CITIZEN KANE from SAW that I'm a bad moviegoer? That's ridiculous. I can highly doubt that the makers of SAW were trying to make a movie that would be regarded as some film masterpiece. They were making an enjoyable, freaky horror movie. That's what it was.

    Not to single you out, but honestly, you have to pick your battles with Hollywood. Movies come in many different varieties. Not every film is made with enough sincerity and intention to be "one of the best movies of the year". Sometimes they just want to tell a great little story to keep people entertained. I do expect the bar to raised on films where they need to be. If SAW was legitamately trying to be a great film, sure it failed, but I would need to know that this was the intention from the get-go. You have to understand, in order for there to be top-notch filmmaking, there needs to be something beneath it. This just happens to be what is beneath it, but that's ok. I'm not expecting miracles from every movie I see....

    -- IMHO, no offense.
     
  11. Marvin Richardson

    Marvin Richardson Supporting Actor

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    Nobody expects miracles from every movie they watch. There's a difference between expecting Citizen Kane everytime you watch a movie and at expecting something that at least doesn't insult my intelligence. Saw ripped off every slasher/serial killer movie ever made, and did it badly. It had a "twist" ending that I only saw coming because of how ridiculous the rest of the movie was. I figured they'd pull something stupid and out of left field just to try to spring a "gotcha" on you at the end of the movie. That isn't an honest attempt at making a "a great little story", its an attempt to trick the audience. Not very impressive in my opinion. If the movie hadn't been so lousy I wouldn't have bothered trying to figure out the twist. For me, Fight Club and The Sixth Sense both surprised me, but on reflection shouldn't have. They only reason they did is they were both telling interesting stories about characters I cared about in interesting situations...I wasn't trying to dissect the movie. With Saw and movies of its ilk, what else is there to do? Listen to the ridiculous dialog? Have an induced seizure by their incessant quick/jump cuts like they've only watched Se7en and House of 1000 Corpses? Marvel at the amazing acting skill on display? Not me.
     
  12. David Galindo

    David Galindo Screenwriter

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    I watched this movie, and it was absolutely horrible. Just horrible. I cant remember the last film Ive seen that was so totally contrived, so empty in its character development, so hollow...

    Yeah, the camera work and such was bad, but the main reason I hated it so much was because the actual killer was just a tool for the screenplay. There is absolutely NO WAY that someone would go through all this trouble JUST to teach someone to value life more...give me a freaking break. Had the movie said he was crazy, I probably would have believed it more.

    In Fight Club, Tyler grabbed an innocent man, put a gun to his head, and for five minutes talked to him and scared the crap out of him. Then he lets the guy go, saying "He'll appreciate life more."

    It takes this guy nearly eight hours to get the same effect. Talk about an over-achiever.

    Yeah, Im missing the point of this film...its just a slasher movie. Now I remember why I never watch slasher movies.
     

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