*** Official "Metal Gear Solid 2 (MGS2)" Review & Discussion thread (1 Viewer)

[Romier S]

Morgan,
I know all that stuff you posted I have played through every Metal Gear game since the original NES game.(although I appreciate the info) but my point is you shouldn't have to go digging to find this info anywhere other than the game itself. Believe you me my friend I am all for working out the noggin to understand some storylines(Hell I love the Silent Hill series to death) but there needs to be some sense of cohesion which I think MGS2 seriously lacks (towards the end that is).
As I stated earlier the 10 minute codec sequence at the of the game with

So what if you dont get all the details

A game like this is all about the details. Details are what makes this type of game enjoyable so I want as many of them as possible.
PS. Silent Hill 2=not worth 50 bucks. Thats cause you dont have an x-box yet. I will be most definitely getting it. To each there own I guess.

 

[LawrenceK]

The last ten minute codec sequence could probably have been trimmed down a bit, but I can also justify its length like this: the A.I. is trying to confuse Raiden and make him question his own actions and the motivations behind him, they tried to force him to see their side of the issue and why the Patriots should control the flow of information. The way they used examples from the game (like Snake's influence on Raiden, or Raiden and Rose's relationship) to point out why he was unfit to decide for himself, was well done. I definately could understand the Patriot's point of view on the matter, even if I didn't agree with it.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Silent Hill 2=definitely worth $50, but a second copy of Silent Hill 2 while I still own the first isn't worth $50.

I suggest we stop using spoilers and ask a mod to just put a spoiler thing in the title.

The details that you want answered aren't that important. First of all, who cares where, when, and how exactly Snake met up with Olga? Its not THAT important.

And while the whole thing about Philanthropy might be important enough to warrant an article about it(with the other 3 included in the game), its not enough to rewrite part of the game for it. In MGS, we just assume that Snake quit and is living in Alaska now, but we don't need an explanation as to how he got there.

I think the game gives you just enough information. Not too little, not too much, but just enough to get you through the story and know whats going on.

A compelling story that goes haywire also warrants a second play, which will get people to see the whole thing if they missed it the first time anyway.

 

[Romier S]

First of all, who cares where, when, and how exactly Snake met up with Olga? Its not THAT important.

First of all I suggest you settle down. We were just having a simple friendly discussion here which I thought was going well and you seem to be getting bent out of shape and coming off like you are pissed off. You think the story is fine as is. I feel its half told. Its simply to different views on the game.

and to answer your question...I care!

As I am sure a good legion of Metal Gear Solid devotees do as well. Lets just say we have a difference of opinion and leave it at that.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Romier-

I'm really sorry if I sounded like I was getting mad. I was trying to put emphasis on words and not sound angry.

Yeah, the story is half told, but the other half can be logically deduced without being spelled out. If I know a phrase and I want to tell someone and I say that it begins with "M" and ends with "etal Gear Solid 2" they can figure it out without me telling them what it actually is. In MGS2, they give you most of the details but leave out the unimportant stuff on purpose.

And for what they give you, you have to admit that its really good.

So the real question is whether or not the game was good enough to buy. Anything beyond that is just a bonus.

 

[Romier S]

Believe me Morgan I never said the game wasn't good. In fact I called in a masterpiece above. I just though it had some story issues that I noted. Also our discussion was about the benefits of allowing the player to play as Snake. I understand where you are coming from and I hope through my posts you understand why I think it would be beneficial.
No harm done either way. Like I said just a difference of a opinion. Now back to playing...must....get....more....dog...tags...

 

[LawrenceK]

Look at the background of the monitor in this picture from a Gamespot article on Metal Gear Solid 2....looks like they left this feature out of the american version though. (In case you have bad eye sight it says "Fight as Raiden, Fight as Snake")
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/feature..._screen02.html

 

[Romier S]

Excellent find Lawrence!! Hopefully that will add up to something in the future I'm telling you my pants would be that much more creamed if they did announce they were adding that to the game.
Of course it could just be the previous name of the "Tanker Episode--Plant Episode" selection screen. Who knows.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Either its a well hidden secret, or its a debug unit. It could also be a feature they threw in for when Kojima made and edited that misleading video...

If there is a mode to choose who to play as, then wouldn't they have to change all the dialogue and the story and everything? I guess that was in there for something else and isn't a hidden feature.

 

[DarrylWHarrisJr]

Well, I beat the game about 3 days ago. Short game. Sorry guys, I am way too disappointed in this one. The ending even sucked, the graphics were lame (the Raiden parts) and the backgrounds weren't detailed (got to do more than some orange connecting platforms), and the Snake thing just rubbed me the wrong way.

PS I know Snake didn't die.....

p.s.s what was with the fake death thing during my duo fight with Snake? What was the point (I may have been so PO'd I missed it.)

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Darryl-

I have to disagree with you. The backgrounds might not have been ultra detailed, but there are so many little secrets and tricks you can do that the gameplay, without the story or graphics, is worth $50 alone, IMO. Also, the outside of the plant was orange, not because it allowed them to save dev time, but because it would be realistic for them to make it that color. Also, you must have missed some of the most detailed game environments ever inside the tanker and a lot of the plant. The graphics in the game are probably the best on the PS2, if not in the top 5 best graphics ever in a game.

The thing with the Colonel being weird and the weird death screen were part of the story, kind of. It was showing how everything was getting screwed up. You'd have to pay close attention to it to get it all.

Why didn't you like the story? Because it was boring, too deep and confusing, or because it was just stupid? I liked it a lot and would like to know what you didn't like about it.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I just finished the game, and all I have to say is:

[Keanu Reeves Voice]

Woah.....

[/Keanu Reeves Voice]

I thought the storyline for Metal Gear Solid was convoluted, but MGS2 takes things to a whole new level.

That, and I'm artificially bumping this thread because I want to see what everybody who finished the game thought of the plot and story. Personally, I have my own theories.

Edit:

Question 1

Why in the world isn't Raiden pissed off at his girlfriend after the way she told him off during the revelation of the whole S3 deal? Did I miss something?


Question 2

Can GW possibly stand for George Washington? Just curious considering that the statue of George Washington is prominent near the end.

Question 3

Would it be a good assumption that Meryl is dead considering that A. We don't hear from her and B. Otacon is the one in this game?

Question 4

Where was Mei Ling? She was listed in the voice credits, and the only time you see her was this clip of her doing this, how shall I put it, a "tease" dance of some sorts when the Colonel spazzes out.

 

[DarrylWHarrisJr]

Morgan... I just thought the story was stupid period. The director is trying to tell me that Solid is the main character and that Raiden is the narrator. That's crock. Everyone is trying to act like they were not pissed once they lost control of Snake and got stuck with Raiden. The media gives reviews a perfect score, yet they never mention the character switch and just say it's full of "surprises". Honestly guys, how are you going to sit there and tell me you enjoyed playing Raiden more than Snake. Wouldn't the game been way better if it were Raiden then Snake would step in an finish the job?

And yes I know the tanker was extremely detailed...that's why I said "the Raiden parts"... the tanker is the best part of the game. I thought the game was down right awesome until Raiden stepped in. I am going to play it again soon (after I get through Devil May Cry and earn my respect in Gran Turismo 3 and gun down some folks in Grand Theft Auto 3).

 

[Romier S]

Darryl,

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion but saying the story was stupid because you could not play Snake doesn't really make much sense.

I had issues with the story myself (as noted earlier)and how it got really over the top although I still found the game to be excellent. It took me quite a bit to get used to playing Raiden as I was just dead set on wanting to play Snake. The further I got into the game though the more I realized why Raiden was there and I started to enjoy playing him a little more. Would it have been better to play as Snake? Its subjective. As I said earlier in this thread I think they should let you play from Snakes point of view but I think Raidens half of the story is just as pivotal.

The Snake/Raiden change is but a small part of the entire story so I dont see how the story was "stupid".

Could you elaborate a little more as to what about the story itself bothered you?

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I would have preferred to play as Snake the whole game, but if the director wants me to play as Raiden and I can't change that, I might as well accept it and just move on. Its not THAT big of a deal.

And the Plant might not have looked as detailed as the Tanker, but it kind makes sense. An office building that is in good condition has less detail than a bedroom, simply because it works out that way. And some parts of the Plant were VERY detailed and had great graphics.

 

[Rob Varto]

Just finished the game myself. Could they have made the "movies" and codec sequences any longer??? I literally played for 10 minutes and watched 40 minutes worth of movies. While I enjoyed the gameplay (what little there was) I was hoping for way more action and less drama. I was also hoping that there would have been more locations to play at. The tanker and Shell Core didn't cut it for me.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Without watching any videos and running through the game as quickly as possible, it still takes me longer than it did going through MGS the first time. Thats pretty good.

Yes, there are a lot of videos and cinemas, but you can skip them if you want to.

I could care less about the number of places that are in the game. Whatever it takes to complete the game.

All in all, would you say the game was worth $50? If so, then you shouldn't complain.

 

[DarrylWHarrisJr]

Morgan, the game wasn't worth my $50

And I agree with Rob. Only 2 locations?? The first Solid game had more places to go (different scenery) though most of it was around the same location....they skimped on this one

 

[Dave Smith]

The game felt claustrophobic and limited to me, due to the fact that it all took place in a single location (two if you count the tanker, but you can blow through that in 45 minutes so it's just a small diversion really).
I much prefer my games to do something like Goldeneye did on the N64... it takes you from city streets to Siberian tundra, from missile bases to the tropics. Much more epic in scope.
I have such mixed feelings on MGS2. The characters are very well designed and had a lot of potential, Raiden excepted, but the storyline got so convoluted and contrived towards the end of the game that much of the impact was lost.
And as a game, MGS2 disappointed me overall. I think that's down to me though, I like action rather than stealth. I just find it boring to wait behind a pillar for 3 minutes for a guard to leave

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I just read an interview with Hideo Kojima and he said things about why he had Raiden in the game and explained why Meryl wasn't in the game, EVEN THOUGH SHE DIDN'T DIE!!! (I'm serious, he said that she didn't die).

I don't see what people are complaining about. MGS2 is better than MGS in almost every way, with the only bad point at all would be the story getting too weird and wrapping up too quickly in that last 10 minute cinema. I look at the game as Kojima's idea, not mine, so if he wants something one way or another, I accept it as it is because of that.

Also, about the game taking place in just one location, I disagree about this being a negative thing. Its not a positive thing, but it didn't bother me at all. The fact that you had to retrace your steps to do stuff you didn't know about (like the whole bomb thing) was interesting to me since it was more than "run back to point A to get gun B."

Nonetheless, this game is more than worth $50 for me.