*** Official KINGDOM OF HEAVEN Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[ErichH]

Wouldn't it be great if there were a way to send out the `Screw this hack cut - we're waitin' For Ridleys cut' to the studio suits?

Guess they could care less what we think. The release timing just before Sith & Serenity says it all.

E

 

[Patrick Sun]

I highly doubt Serenity's September 30th release data had any impact on KoH's release date.

 

[Nate Anderson]

I guess I was the only one who actually enjoyed this. First off, I didn't think it was ANYTHING like Gladiator. I had no real problems with Orlando Bloom, I think he did pretty well, actually. I thought it was well acted and interesting. Edward Norton really impressed me as the King. The things he was able to do while wearing that mask for the entire film was quite impressive.

Overall, I think it was well worth seeing. :star: :star: :star: :star: /:star: :star: :star: :star: :star:

 

[Jon Mahoney]

Going into this movie I wasn't expecing all that much considering the reviews I've seen refering it to "Kingdom of Bordem" etc. That being said, i really really enjoyed this movie.

I did not find any of this movie boring at all and although in some points (the middle) the plot just seemed to leave off and the substance isn't there. I'm assuming that's due to the editing and leaving a full hour out of the movie. I was pretty impressed with Orlando Bloom in the lead, but he did a fairly good job with it and IMO didn't take away from the movie at all.

I'd agree with the 4 of 5 stars and can't wait for the extended DVD.

 

[todd stone]

hhah yes I too noticed the 13th warrior music. what the heck ?????

 

[DanR]

Don't get me wrong, it's a good piece of music, I just thought it didn't fit in with the rest of the score.

What would be interesting to know is whether this was used at the last minute b/c Ridley didn't like the way the scene was scored OR if the scene got butchered and they couldn't edit Gregson-Williams' original score to fit it somehow.

Does anyone have the score? I believe there is a track on there called "Rise a Knight". Is it different than what was in the movie or is it just lifted from The 13th Warrior.

Regards,
Dan

 

[Nathan V]

The only problem I had with this picture was the bizarre pacing and lack of character development (which the Eva Green character needs like nobody's business), but these are not really valid complaints against Mr. Scott and co., since this is not the final cut of the film. I assume 75 minutes of character development will rectify all the flaws of the film, and more (Wilmington's review has Scott saying the original running time is 220 mins). I personally think the original cut is going to be the best film of its type since Braveheart. I haven't been so blown away by a movie's visuals since Schindler's List. Scott's background as a painter really shows through- lots of silhouettes, exquisite compositions, beautiful filters, shadows, etc. That opening skirmish in the woods was unbelievable. Jerusalem seemed like such a lived-in place, I never got the feeling we were on a movie set. And yeah, Edward Norton was absolutely fantastic. I couldn't believe it was him, he pulled that accent off incredibly well.

Scott also used the opera piece Hans Zimmer wrote for Hannibal, to great effect, IMO.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I liked it. I liked it better than Gladiator. But that's just me.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Did you see the film? She was indeed ugly as far as leading ladies go.

 

[Kain_C]

Sorry, but Eva is very beautiful in that natural woman sense. She was damn hot in The Dreamers and from the pics and vids I have seen of this movie, nothing looks different.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Well, her character gave herself an ugly haircut towards the end of the film, but otherwise, she is not an ugly woman.

 

[Will_B]

The Boston Phoenix has an interesting sidebar article about the author of the book the Kingdom of Heaven was (?) based on. Normally I view these sorts of "hey I wrote that" claims very dubiously, but the writer makes a convincing case.

www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/movies/reviews/documents/04667526.asp

That link is to the main article but you need to look to the right to the shaded box to see the related article. Some salient points (but be sure to read the whole article at the link):

 

[Shaun]

I noticed this too and recognized it immediately, as it took me completely out of the movie once the music started playing.

This was a direct lift from a portion of The 13th Warrior score entitled "Valhalla/Viking Victory", which replaced the original music for the scene which was "Rise a Knight". This may have been done probably at the last second, as a tribute to the late Jerry Goldsmith, who was the composer for The 13th Warrior and whom Ridley Scott worked with on films including Alien and Legend (which was replaced for the American release by studio execs in favor of the more "commercial" score by Tangerine Dream). I have not confirmed it, but according to another film score website (www.filmtracks.com), Jerry Goldsmith's name is listed in the film's end credits.

 

[Sam Favate]

I thought the film was just okay. It suffered from too many long battle scenes, which were too reminiscent of The Return of the King. It also beat the audience about the head -- too many slow motion battle sequences, set to sad music. Ok, we get it: War is bad.

Still, the story was a good one, and the actors acquitted themselves well enough. A lukewarm way to start the summer season.

 

[TheLongshot]

That would be rather ironic, since from what I've heard, Scott really mucked with both of those scores, and it didn't sound like they were on good terms with each other. (Thus, they didn't work together again.)

Jason

 

[Shaun]

Actually, what I'm hearing now is that the movie was heavily temp tracked with music from other films, including tracks from Hannibal, Blade II, The Crow and more(!?). Probably due to editing or that they just didn't know what to do with the score. Though I couldn't pick those tracks out in the film. As much as I like the track for The 13th Warrior, it felt very out of place and I didn't really think there was anything wrong with the original "Rise a Knight" track. In fact, I think the score for Kingdom of Heaven is, so far, one of the best scores of the year.

 

[AlexCremers]

Although Jerry Goldsmith's score was noted in many reviews of the European release as one of the film's most positive attributes, Universal executive Sidney Jay Sheinberg determined that the success of LEGEND in America was dependent on replacing Goldsmith's score with more commercial, pop/rock-style music. This would theoretically make the film more "accessible" to, and attract; teenage audiences, as well as allow for a more marketable pop-music soundtrack album.
- excerpt from the booklet's liner notes of LEGEND, The Jerry Goldsmith Score

 

[Kirk Tsai]

Every film is temp tracked, and these kind of films are probably especially heavily so. I seriously doubt Scott was making any kind of tribute to Goldsmith given his track record. Besides Goldsmith, the film also has previously written pieces by Graeme Revell and Patrick Cassidy (from Hannibal).

I had previously thought that the filmmakers of Elektra did a very unflattering job photographing Jennifer Garner, but I think the way Miss Green was shot here triumps that terrible film.

As for the film itself, Scott once again shows that he should stay away from political intrigue, because it is anything but that; really lacking in depth.

 

[Elijah Sullivan]

Unless unexpected Oscar glory is in this film's future, I'm expecting it to go down as a "minor" Scott picture, probably considered a failure.

And sometime after his death, they are going to call it one of his masterpieces -- especially if the extended version survives.

For me, it breaks down as follows:

Pros: The photography, the editing, cinematic imagination, photogenic cast, battle scenes that make Return of the King seem positively silly (and that's a lot coming from me -- loved Return), good story with a gutsy ending.

Cons: jaw-droppingly one-dimensional villains, absurdly out-of-whack pacing, some spotty acting. You can tell that an hour and a half were cut from this film. I kid you not, someone I was speaking to after the screening who was completely ignorant about the film's production history quipped, "It was like there was an hour missing... the hour with all the good stuff."

Orlando Bloom's acting: I've never liked him before, but he seriously impressed me. Especially in the early parts of the film... that was some damned solid work.

Eva Green: She is beautiful. No question about it. Are you sure you weren't looking at Orlando Bloom?

I think the concensus is in: it's a pretty decent film, and the extended cut has the potential to be truly glorious. That's how I feel about it.

I'd give it :star: :star: :star: 1/2 /:star: :star: :star: :star: :star: as an objective critic. Add a star if you are fan of epics, eye candy pictures, or Ridley Scott.

EDIT: p.s. I'm guessing that this movie is going to have the inverted Oscar history of Gladiator: will win for Director but lose Picture.

 

[Norm]

I still haven't seen the movie yet. I see its not doing that good at the box office. I'm a R.S. fan, but I don't think Orlando Bloom is the draw that the Studio's or Ridley Scott thought.