*** Official KICK-ASS Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Patrick Sun

I didn't read the comic series of K-A because I was aghast at how different the film "Wanted" was when compared to the "Wanted" mini-series, and how the comic series sucked so much more than the film it was "loosely" based upon. If I see K-A in HC or TPB on the shelves of Borders or B&N, I'll flip through it, but sure won't buy it.

Eventhough it's a cliche to say it, the comic book was better (I still really liked the movie though). The first 45 minutes or hour pretty much followed the first few issues but the second hour, while still following the broad strokes of the story, wasn't as close to the issues. I'm guessing that the script was written from a Millar outline but by the time that Millar finally wrote the last few issues, he made some changes for the better.

 

[Zack Gibbs]

Originally Posted by TravisR

Eventhough it's a cliche to say it, the comic book was better (I still really liked the movie though). The first 45 minutes or hour pretty much followed the first few issues but the second hour, while still following the broad strokes of the story, wasn't as close to the issues. I'm guessing that the script was written from a Millar outline but by the time that Millar finally wrote the last few issues, he made some changes for the better.

Once the two break off, I think the movie is easily the superior. Millar's work just tends to disintegrate and lose purpose as it goes on.

Unfortunately the one place the unfinished-comic really effected the movie was Big Daddy/Hit Girl's backstory, which I think is the films biggest weakness. I'd really enjoy hearing about what happened there, both with the comic and the film.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

My third point: there can be no doubt that The Matrix completely influenced the action genre in the last decade. It did it ripping anime off, of course. But you don't get credit for being first...you get credit for being noticed first.

This is the second work of Millar where a protagonist runs down a hallway (between looms) using guns, other people's guns, and acrobatics to kill a lot of fodder. Wesley did it in wanted, and both were aping Equilibrium. Which was completely aping the infamous lobby scene. It's still pretty cool, but we need something new for a big finale.

Secondly, The Matrix also popularized instant capability. You need to know Kung Fu...we'll download it. You need to be a secret agent...subliminally installed. You need to be captain of the Enterprise, flagship of the Federation, here is your command. Need to be an assassin...your heartbeat is 1000 bpm, and here are your six weeks of training. Now you are uber-badass.

I'm not complaining. I'm a bit fascinated by it, as I think it reflects how instant gratification modern society is. We don't got time to go to Dagobah or get months of training from Miyagi. Action scene in 5!

Just pointing out the obvious callouts. Millar should be cutting some checks to the Wachowskis (who should be cutting some to Woo and the 80s/90s anime pioneers).

I'd be more interested in a movie following Mindy McCready through Jr High and High School.

And the actress playing Dave's BFF was ridiculously hot.

The only action scenes with anything going on beyond the kinetic were Kick-Ass youtube fight, because it was clearly about principle there, and the Hit Girl rescue. That was genuinely moving, again due to Cage and Moretz and the score from Sunshine. That was incredible filmmaking, and I had goosebumps. The film couldn't top that for me.

 

[mattCR]

His girlfriend was insanely hot. That helped the movie immensely for me.

I'm not complaining. I'm a bit fascinated by it, as I think it reflects how instant gratification modern society is. We don't got time to go to Dagobah or get months of training from Miyagi. Action scene in 5!

Can you imagine large portions of a film devoted to training sequences or failures in training.. like Rocky? Do we have patience for that? "Read the manual" and reading the manual he figures out that super complex thing so fast???? See.. argue a point without giving away anything.. No spoilers needed!

I don't know, the film had what I thought were some moments that were really great fun. I enjoyed it. I can see where Patrick is coming from, though, the film would fall into that category I'd call 'too cute by half'. I bought everything about Hit Girl as far as a comic book character goes, and I thought Chloe was great in that role. No, the problem I had was that so many of the basic moments surrounding them simply didn't fit together.

Some people were made into characters of a sort and the film just forgot about them or they became cardboard.

This was a movie that had some flashes of real brilliant editing. And it had two really great sequences. It'll be fun to see at home. But it wasn't great. I don't know, I'd give it a B- or something like that. Same problem as "Wanted" .. but, like "Wanted" they work hard to put in the moments with hot girls and cool sequences to make you forget plot problems.

Maybe I'm spoiled because like Chuck points out above, a lot of the action sequences in these films just aren't very original. If I hadn't seen some incredible action sequences last night.. in of all things, a TV show, I'd just write it off. But when you see the "real deal" it makes a lot of these seem to ring false. You forget how good the sequence in The Matrix was the first time you saw it. Or the action in the first "Die Hard", etc. Chuck's right, everyone is ripping off the hallway scene, and the scene in the kitchen seemed straight out of "Mr & Mrs Smith". This isn't a bad film, it's just not as good as it could have been I think.

I would completely agree with Patrick on one big point: the sound editing in the trailer for the hallway scene was much, much better then as presented in the film.

 

[EricW]

the actress who plays the girlfriend is also the daughter in the "future" scenes that book-end episodes of How I Met Your Mother.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Originally Posted by Zack Gibbs

Unfortunately the one place the unfinished-comic really effected the movie was Big Daddy/Hit Girl's backstory, which I think is the films biggest weakness. I'd really enjoy hearing about what happened there, both with the comic and the film.

In the comic wasn't Big Daddy's back story that
... he was an accountant or insurance adjuster or something that got bored with his mundane life, grabbed his little daughter and took off for a more exciting life as superheroes?
If so, I far prefer the movie's back story. The only way you can begin to justify turning a little girl into a Hit Girl is some vast personal tragedy that blinds you to anything but revenge. There's also the matter of competence;

I can suspend my disbelief and accept that a trained police officer could train himself, first in prison, and later outside of prison into a lethal killing machine. I can even go out on a limb and accept that a girl trained by such a person since the age of five could be come seriously lethal in her own right. I just can't buy that Joe Sixpack takes off on a quixotic quest and becomes as lethal as Big Daddy and Hit Girl are shown to be.

Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer

Secondly, The Matrix also popularized instant capability. You need to know Kung Fu...we'll download it. You need to be a secret agent...subliminally installed. You need to be captain of the Enterprise, flagship of the Federation, here is your command. Need to be an assassin...your heartbeat is 1000 bpm, and here are your six weeks of training. Now you are uber-badass.

I'm not sure what this has to do with Kick-Ass, which is if anything the antithesis of the instant capability sensibility of The Matrix and its successors. Kick Ass takes several severe beatings over the course of the film and even at the end wouldn't be considered a serious opponent without a 007-style jetpack armed with Gatling guns strapped to his back. The expertise of Big Daddy and Hit Girl is shown to be the result of years of relentless training, and theyre both still more vulnerable than any of the traditional superheroes, even Batman.

I'd be more interested in a movie following Mindy McCready through Jr High and High School.

Me too; how does the girl who's spent her entire life being honed into a human weapon start to build a normal, full life? That's what Kick Ass can really offer help with.

The only action scenes with anything going on beyond the kinetic were Kick-Ass youtube fight, because it was clearly about principle there, and the Hit Girl rescue. That was genuinely moving, again due to Cage and Moretz and the score from Sunshine. That was incredible filmmaking, and I had goosebumps. The film couldn't top that for me.

I thought all of the action sequences were expertly handled, and I liked the way each one built upon the last. Vaughn does a terrific job of keeping the focus on the characters so that you know exactly who is fighting who and why. The last film that did this good of a job on this kind of scale was probably Iron Man.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Originally Posted by EricW

the actress who plays the girlfriend is also the daughter in the "future" scenes that book-end episodes of How I Met Your Mother.

That would be Lyndsy Fonseca. She was also in "Hot Tub Time Machine", which should still be in the theaters nowaday, but probably not too much longer. She also played the daughter of Catherine in Desperate Housewives, and guest-starred in a lot of TV shows.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt


In the comic wasn't Big Daddy's back story that
... he was an accountant or insurance adjuster or something that got bored with his mundane life, grabbed his little daughter and took off for a more exciting life as superheroes?
If so, I far prefer the movie's back story. The only way you can begin to justify turning a little girl into a Hit Girl is some vast personal tragedy that blinds you to anything but revenge. There's also the matter of competence;

That's because Mark Millar is one of those writers who thinks that he's being clever by trying to always pull the rug out of his reader's initial expectations that he puts forth with some cockamamie twist revelation, but he failed to understand he undermines his entire premise with the BD backstory in the comic book version, and subsequently HG's own backstory. Again, it's just me and my eyerolling on this one as well.

BTW, I did track down a copy of the Kiss-Ass in its collection Hardcover edition and read it, and felt bad for John Romita Jr. (the penciller) for having to depict the insane violence he was asked to do in the comic series. Perhaps he likes drawing that kind of stuff since he doesn't get to do it in his normal Marvel artwork/stories, but it felt like he was slumming for a payday with the work he was asked to turn in. So now I see the similarities and differences between the comics series and the film, and the changes did create a disconnect with how scenes never quite gelled or built on one another well throughout its running time.

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt


In the comic wasn't Big Daddy's back story that
... he was an accountant or insurance adjuster or something that got bored with his mundane life, grabbed his little daughter and took off for a more exciting life as superheroes?

If so, I far prefer the movie's back story. The only way you can begin to justify turning a little girl into a Hit Girl is some vast personal tragedy that blinds you to anything but revenge.



I prefer the comic book's take on Big Daddy. I like the idea that

he's just some loser who dies thinking that he got his daughter killed all because he wanted to play superhero. He doesn't have a big "I love you" moment with his daughter before he dies, the gangsters just shoot him in the head and that's that.

This is more nitpicky but I like the way that the comic doesn't have Kick-Ass and Hit Girl regroup and get more weapons to take on the gangsters. In the comic, Red Mist brings Kick-Ass to the trap, Hit Girl is shot out of the window, Big Daddy is killed and Kick-Ass is tortured. Hit Girl frees him and they just go right after the gangsters and take them on. Plus, Hit Girl uses a flame thrower on the bad guys.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Well, I'd argue that Kick-Ass (the main character) does ONE superheroic thing in the film. He flies a magic jetpack with gatling guns. And he does so, flawlessly, after "reading the manual" for five minutes. Considering a piece of equipment like that would probably be balanced to your body weight, it would take weeks to get capable of flying it with any degree of precision. Much less with two guns strapped to the back.

Now this is a movie, so stuff like that is perfectly OK. Just like it's OK that it flies across Manhattan, clearly being powered by Iron Man's Arc Reactor, since it would have used enough jet fuel to require multiple 55 gallon drums. But he does learn to use it expertly in less time than it took me to type this post. That is instant gratifcation. Like I said, I didn't bring it up as a complaint. That has been the hallmark of superheroes for years (radioactive spider, super-serum, gamma bomb, power ring, etc). But this movie uses it as well.

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer

Well, I'd argue that Kick-Ass (the main character) does ONE superheroic thing in the film. He flies a magic jetpack with gatling guns. And he does so, flawlessly, after "reading the manual" for five minutes. Considering a piece of equipment like that would probably be balanced to your body weight, it would take weeks to get capable of flying it with any degree of precision. Much less with two guns strapped to the back.

Now this is a movie, so stuff like that is perfectly OK. Just like it's OK that it flies across Manhattan, clearly being powered by Iron Man's Arc Reactor, since it would have used enough jet fuel to require multiple 55 gallon drums. But he does learn to use it expertly in less time than it took me to type this post. That is instant gratifcation. Like I said, I didn't bring it up as a complaint. That has been the hallmark of superheroes for years (radioactive spider, super-serum, gamma bomb, power ring, etc). But this movie uses it as well.

There's no jetpack in the comic book but I liked the addition of it. It's crazy and silly but it's also a very fun moment.

 

[Don Solosan]

"Me too; how does the girl who's spent her entire life being honed into a human weapon start to build a normal, full life? That's what Kick Ass can really offer help with."

Kick-Ass 2: Kickin' Back! Do you really need/want to see a sequel about people living normal (boring) lives? Do you honestly believe the people who like this movie would be satisfied by that? Personally, I don't see that happening.

 

[EricW]

i really liked Kick-Ass and i've read all the reasons on this thread as to why some didn't. to that all i can say is, you either buy into it or you don't. it's like any other movie. EVERY MOVIE has inconsistencies and unrealistic plot points. therefore the reason you don't like the movie probably isn't because they have them; the reason you don't like the movie is because there isn't enough good in them for you to over look them. For people that didn't like Kick-Ass, if you were to point out a comic book movie that you did like, i'm sure there are many inconsistencies in those movies that you're overlooking or that would require complete half-ass rationalizations, yet you like them anyways.

could Tony Stark really build an arc reactor in a cave in a week? c'mon...
(and i liked Iron Man)

 

[JonZ]

Quote:Originally Posted by Patrick Sun

I mean, somewhere I'm just not getting the love for Hit Girl because she's 11 and can slice through people lower legs, and cuss, and perform gynastics in a hallway while dodging bullets and throwing knifes and slashing arms off, are we that easily entertained?

Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
But it is pretty incredible action. I managed to easily suspend my disbelief. And was duly rewarded with two brilliantly shot action scenes around a film that couldn't really sustain their momentum.

This is why I havent made up my mind on whether or not to see this. To tell you the truth the action in the trailer bored me and I ended up turning it off. We've seen these tricks in so many films over the past few years. The whole thing with throwing the bullet clips in the air and they fall right into place in the gun (Wolverine),etc.


I find that stuff completely tedious,stupid and boring.

I prefer something along the lines of the Spiderman2 train scene. That was exciting. The crowd I saw that film with nearby did cartwheels in the aisles when Spiderman was catching the people Doc Ock was throwing off the train as he was racing to catch up to it.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Originally Posted by Don Solosan

Kick-Ass 2: Kickin' Back! Do you really need/want to see a sequel about people living normal (boring) lives? Do you honestly believe the people who like this movie would be satisfied by that? Personally, I don't see that happening.

I would definitely still want superheroics thread throughout it, but since this movie was about Kick-Ass going from normal teenager to some semblance of superhero, I think it'd be engaging watching this kid who's never been anything other than a superhero try to make the opposite transition.

 

[Don Solosan]

"[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]I would definitely still want superheroics thread throughout it, but since this movie was about Kick-Ass going from normal teenager to some semblance of superhero, I think it'd be engaging watching this kid who's never been anything other than a superhero try to make the opposite transition."

I would imagine that as long as she's Hit Girl, she's never going to be "normal." I can see the point of a movie that shows people going from "zero to hero," but not the other direction.


"I find that stuff completely tedious,stupid and boring."

Jon, why are you even considering seeing this? Just so you can b!tch about it afterward? [/COLOR]

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Originally Posted by Don Solosan

Kick-Ass 2: Kickin' Back! Do you really need/want to see a sequel about people living normal (boring) lives? Do you honestly believe the people who like this movie would be satisfied by that? Personally, I don't see that happening.

Kick-Ass is a black comedy with great action elements. Are you saying that couldn't be done within the tenets of a high school "coming of age" film.

You realize that this is basically a movie about normal, boring lives with 4 action scenes thrown in, right?

 

[Greg_S_H]

Millar called his book "Volume One," so he at least plans to continue. He always claimed it was an ongoing. Will they wait to adapt his new work or just write something new to keep it rolling (which he will then probably adapt himself)? Who knows.

 

[JonZ]

Originally Posted by Don Solosan

[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Jon, why are you even considering seeing this? Just so you can b!tch about it afterward?
[/COLOR]

I do like M Vaughn and I also thought some of the clips Ive seen here and there were funny. My issues are with the stylized over the top violence/action that come out in past years, but a few actions scenes wont necessary break a movie for me if theres more to it. I loved Watchmen, but really disliked the fight/action scenes.

Matt also was talking about how the film pokes fun at the comic books of the 90s. I had long given up comics by that time (except Cerebus and a couple others), so Im not sure I would have even picked up the satire of the film like he did. It prob would have gone wright over my head.

The "action" of the film is what appeals to me the least.Though I would like to see Nic Cage in something decent again.

 

[Don Solosan]

"[COLOR= rgb(24, 24, 24)]You realize that this is basically a movie about normal, boring lives with 4 action scenes thrown in, right?"

That's not quite how I would describe it, Chuck. Damon and Mindy are anything but normal or boring -- in costume or out. And Dave is fairly normal, but not boring. He's living out a fantasy, acquires a hot girlfriend, gets into dangerous situations, becomes a hero loved by many. It's sorta like Repo Man:

"That was intense!"
"A repo man's life is always intense! Ordinary people spend their lives avoiding tense situations. A repo man spends his life getting into tense situations."

Just substitute "superhero" for "repo man."


Jon, there is quite a lot of character stuff in the movie, so it will be interesting to hear your reaction if you decide to go see this.[/COLOR]