*****Official "Justice League" discussion thread

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Michael Allred, Nov 17, 2001.

  1. Michael Allred

    Michael Allred Screenwriter

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    Watched the premiere tonight on Cartoon Network. Let's discuss.
    The animation was ok thought I don't particularly care for the style. Very cartoony, yeah I know it's a cartoon but I guess I was hoping for something a little less "saturday morning" looking.
    The whole alien invasion story was a bit lame....almost a throw-a-way kinda thing.
    They showed a few seconds of what *appears* to be the Legion of Doom. I sure hope they're introduced soon! I also hope other characters are brought in from time to time, even if it's just for 1 episode (I understand Aquaman will make a brief appearance.)
    My biggest beef is with the selection of characters. So Superman and Batman are essential, that's a given but the choices for diversity seem to be made for the sake of diversity and nothing else.
    Why the incredibly lame Hawkgirl? The virtually unknown black Green Lantern? Bring back Hal Jordan I say!
    When could Wonder Woman fly? Why does it seem her biggest ability is blocking lasers with her bracelets? Martian Manhuter....BORING.
    I'd like to see more of the Flash though. The show clearly needs more smartass humor and his character can provide that.
    Anyway, the show has promise though the opener left a lot to be desired.
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  2. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    apparently wonder woman can fly. as a kid i don't remember her flying but it was brought to my attention a few years ago. i don't remember if she flew on the old tv show.
    i'm not a big fan of this style of animation either.
    and the story was war of the worlds, wasn't it?
    i would also like to see more mainstream characters.
    i thought superman giving batman the jimmy olson watch was pretty funny.
     
  3. Doug Miller

    Doug Miller Supporting Actor

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    I've got to say that I was a bit disappointed with the first episode. I feel confident saying it's going to get better though.
    I thought the animation was horrible. It didn't touch Superman, Batman or Batman Beyond in terms of quality. The colors were off all over the place, the costumes were inconsisent, and the characters just didn't look right.
    I really missed Tim Daly's voice for Superman. Whoever is doing the voice now doesn't cut it. It was nice to hear Conroy's voice for Batman, he's always been perfect. I didn't mind the change in Batman's appearance, but thought it was a little blue heavy in the cape and cowl. If they're going to push his costume back to its roots, then it should have stayed Black and Gray. Liked Green Lantern's look, ditto for Martian Manhunter, but feel like they're characters need a little shoring up. Green Lantern just seems a little too angry, Martian Manhunter seems a little too dull. (More Flash please.)
    Agree with the post above, the story was really weak. I would have preferred to see a bit more of a "standard" villain threat that incapacitates Superman and forces the other heroes to find him, or something along the someone has taken over Superman's mind and he's tearing up Earth. The visitors from another planet just came off as being really boring. Bring on the Injustice Society, or Legion of Doom if you prefer!
    See plenty of room for improvement in future episodes. I will say that the animation HAS to improve, it was the most disappointing part of the show. For the flagship episode, it seemed pretty slopped together.
    Doug
     
  4. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Wonder Woman had that invisible jet. Maybe she is just using an invisible jet pack?
     
  5. Bill Catherall

    Bill Catherall Screenwriter

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    Whoa! I watched and was very disappointed! I thought I was the only one. Superman's voice wasn't deep enough. Wonder Woman flying? What's this Hawk Girl? Anyway...the story was weak...even the "super heros" were weak. They all just seemed a little too powerless, then suddenly they have this great power to be able to start smashing things up at the end. People standing around in the city watching huge aliens walk all around them and build some kind of power stations while they just gawk from below, totally unharmed. Superman waited until Batman arrived, then he used his heat vision to blast through the rock that had him entrapped. Oh man...I was totally turned off. I could go on and on with all the things that bothered me.
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  6. Steve Enemark

    Steve Enemark Second Unit

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    Wonder Woman has been flying for at least as long as I've read her comic (~14 years).
    "Hawk Girl" is really called Hawkwoman (at least she's called that in the comics) and has been around in one form or another for six decades.
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  7. Dedrick

    Dedrick Agent

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    I thought the pilot was decent. Some of the dialogue was cheesy (never Batman's though), Hawkgirl was stupid, and the animation wasn't nearly as good as I had hoped. But, this is just the pilot so I think it will get a lot better.
    Just give me more Batman and Flash and less Hawkgirl and I'll be a lot happier.
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  8. Thomas D

    Thomas D Stunt Coordinator

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    Wonder Woman's history in comics is rather complex. Her origin has been retconned a few times and re-written that it would take too long to detail everything. Basically, Pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths (Back in the mid-80s, DC Comics published a 12-issue series that was designed to clean up or restart their superhero universe), Wonder Woman used an invisible jet to fly around. After Crisis, the writers were able to redo the major hero's origins and powers. From that point on, she was able to fly by herself.
    I'm guessing that the ones wondering what's up with WW flying have only seen the various Superfriends cartoons or the Lynda Carter television show.
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  9. Michael Sliger

    Michael Sliger Second Unit

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    [​IMG]
    Anyone else want to confirm that the Sunday night widescreen rebroadcast of Secret Origins is just a cropped version of the 4:3 airing Saturday? I see no new stuff on the sides and people's hair and Batman's cowl points are being cut off now. I had a bad feeling about this on Saturday when I saw so much unused space on the top and bottom. Looks like these Sunday widescreen reairings will be a waste of time. Oh well.
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  10. Anthony Cler

    Anthony Cler Stunt Coordinator

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    Overall, I was dissappointed with the pilot episodes. I didn't like Superman's new look or voice. The plot and animation were not up to the standards set by the previous series(BM, TAS & BB). Actually, the story was worse than the animation in comparison to past examples.

    But I was more impressed by Batman's new look than I expected to be and his dialog was as good as ever. I also liked all of the other characters(except Hawkgirl) and am looking forward to a DVD release of the first complete season.

    Actually I'd really like to see Batman and the Superman series on DVD.

    Being a big fan of the Superman animated series, my biggest disappointment is definetly the new voice and look of Superman. On top of that, he even seems weaker than the already weak version from the original animated series.

    But don't get me wrong, I'll definetely be watching every episode.
     
  11. Rob T

    Rob T Screenwriter

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    I haven't been able to see it yet due to no network up here in Canada picking it up, but whats with them matting the fullscreen version so that it'll be widescreen?

    why not just animate it in widescreen instead? I would think that would save money which could be put towards the animation and other costs.
     
  12. LarryDavenport

    LarryDavenport Cinematographer

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    I kept forgetting it was on. I keep coming in when it's almost over. I hope other heroes like The Green Arrow, Captain Marvel, and The Atom will be in future episodes.

    I thought it looked drawn better than The Superfriends (I liked the Superfriends joke too). I was hoping it would be a little darker and more adult oriented. I wish the networks and wise up that we are not all 14. Teenagers might be a big money demographic, but the kids get their money from their parents.
     
  13. Michael Sliger

    Michael Sliger Second Unit

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    Bruce Timm has confirmed it. The widescreen airings are cropped from the 4:3 versions. Yes, the episodes are framed for widescreen, but we get more picture in the 4:3 airings. I like the idea of a 16:9 weekly cartoon, but I'd rather see everything that was animated (even if nothing is happening in those areas).
    http://www.comics2film.com/newstory.shtml#Timm
     
  14. Phil Florian

    Phil Florian Screenwriter

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    I had to tape the pilot and tonights first episode (part one of a two part GL story). Man, I too felt some of the disappointment, though I was still excited to see these characters on TV. The "invasion" premise was weak, to be sure, but I think it was to allow all new origins for some of the main characters and how they differ from the DC Comics. The animation was decent but the writing is what really lacked. I don't buy into that whole "it has to be dark" premise (except for the Bat) for a show to be acceptable to adults, but it does have to have clever writing. Powerpuff Girls has better writing with more clever takes on superheroes than the first two installments of the new Superfriends...I mean Justice League. The writing on the other WB cartoons just had a bit more to them that attracted viewers in my age range. As for the casting of the heroes, I would have loved to see Hal Jordan and Barry Allen, but that would be asking too much.

    As for their abilities...it was kind of flat. What makes a Green Lantern fun is not the green ring, but what it's user creates from them. The GLs that I like create wacky things out of them to get things done. It isn't supposed to be a green laser beam that cuts stuff up. When the current DC GL or Guy or even Hal hit people, it sometimes was a big green fist. If they were going to cut a ship in half, it would be a giant band saw. The imagination of the GL was as important as their willpower. Much more fun to watch, too.

    I did like Martian Manhunter. He was hip and used his powers with some variety. Superman did his usual bits of flying and hitting. I liked that Bats and MM were able to do a quick plan which shows where the Bat fits in with super powers. Flash was remarkably slow and didn't do much more (in any episode so far) beyond flirting and dodging stuff. Wonder Woman blocked stuff (yippeee) and Hawkwoman hit stuff, but again, neither really stood out as more than just tough flying ladies. TOo many "blasted Superman through building" shots, too. Cool once, maybe twice. A dozen times and it loses its oomph.

    I hope that they get some more of the writing talent from the other WB shows and put them to good use. They had something going with all the other WB superhero shows and it should build up to JL, not show us how good the old days were.

    Phil
     
  15. Andres Munoz

    Andres Munoz Cinematographer

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    I actually liked the pilot episode.

    So when are new shows airing? I'm getting confused with the re-runs.
     
  16. Scott Weinberg

    Scott Weinberg Lead Actor

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    Bring back Apache Chief! [​IMG]
     
  17. Raphael

    Raphael Stunt Coordinator

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    My thoughts on Justice League: the show certainly has a lot of potential, as unlike other attempted reboots of the title they have a great line-up (with the exception of the lame Hawkgirl). My only quibble is the ommission of Aquaman, who, while admittedly very difficult to write into stories, is as much a part of the DC canon as the Hawkpeople are. If they really wanted another female from the JLA archives, they should have put in Black Canary, an actual founding member according to current chronology.

    John Stewart as the JLA's Green Lantern makes for an amazingly _boring_ GL. All he does is shoot green beams from his ring, rather than create constructs or anything interesting. I get the feeling the producers/animators have never actually _read_ a Green Lantern comic book before, but were just told about his powers over the phone.

    The Flash was very slow and underpowered. Seeing him get stuck in sticky tar was disheartening, to say the least. This is the same guy who runs straight through walls by vibrating his molecules rapidly. He's arguably one of the most powerful heroes in the DC universe, and I was disappointed to see his abilities used in such a piddling manner.

    It was interesting how Wonder Woman's emphasized power in the show was her ability to deflect bullets with her bracelets, an ability I haven't seen emphasized since her days in the old live-action show (Wonder Wo-maaaan! Wonder Wo-maaaaaaannn!). And, yes, she's been able to fly for the past 10 years or so.

    Did anyone else think that Superman was a little weak? My goodness, he was being knocked out more times than I could count. They're trying to keep him from being overpowered, but really, invulnerability _is_ one of his abilities. My favorite bit on the show is where he's imprisoned by aliens and apparently forgets he has powers, because he only breaks free _after_ Batman makes his appearance to save the day.


    They did Batman right (naturally). Of course, it's always Batman who saves the League in the end, although his role seemed a bit tacked on to me in the show. Something I'd like to see in future episodes is his value as a master tactician -- there was a recent issue of JLA where he single-handedly engineered methods to efficiently and brutally take out the entire team, including Superman.

    One thing I _did_ like about the episode is how they didn't spell out the weaknesses and powers of the heroes like so many other superhero shows/books have done. A particularly nice example is where yellow nerve gas easily penetrates GL's shield without nary a word of explanation.
    I was surprised that they _didn't_ mention Manhunter's vulnerability to fire -- perhaps that's for a future episode?

    Overall, a little underwhelming. I was expecting more, but hopefully they'll figure out what they're doing in a few more episodes.
     
  18. Peter McM

    Peter McM Supporting Actor

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    Interesting how Batman declined the invitation to join the JL--no doubt over some deep-seeded jealousy that everyone else (except Flash) can fly.
    Flash probably joined just to be around Princess Diana and Hawkgirl. [​IMG]
     
  19. Phil Florian

    Phil Florian Screenwriter

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    I am kind of glad they aren't using Aquaman as regular character. They had him in one of the Superman episodes and his role was a kind of Greenpeace/rebel leader type guy who teamed up with Supes because it made sense for his cause, not some great earthly land lubber cause. There is supposed to be a two parter starring Aquaman around episode 7. They need to get Mark Waid or Grant Morrison in to write some of the episodes. Didn't they get some comic writers for the original run of Batman?

    Phil
     
  20. Chuck L

    Chuck L Screenwriter

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    Was able to watch it briefly on Friday night. What I have seen and heard I have enjoyed...I quess that I will have a better 'review' after being able to watch it alone.

    Was pleased overall...the production was a lot higher then the past efforts and I basically liked the attitude that the series is trying to do.

    Hopefully we will get more complex stories in the future and see more of the other JL members that are lacking from the comics.

    I really likes the Superfriends crack though...was very funny....

    They need to make Wonder Woman a bit more bitchy though honestly....and oh....she doesn't have the ability to fly....unless that has changed in the past few years in the comic book....she does though have the ability to 'ride' air currents. If that makes any sense. Who knows....IT'S A CARTOON!!!!!!!
     

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