*** Official "JAY & SILENT BOB STRIKE BACK!" Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Chris]

Wow, Tino It's good to see others opinions.. I hadn't anticipated anyone saying much positive about the Chris Rock moments, which I thought were amongst the worst / cliche bits in the film (it's the same schtick he does over and over and over again in every film he's in)

 

[Wes Ray]

Thank you, Tino. I'm glad someone else had the courage to state the obvious fact that this film just wasn't that funny. I saw Joe Dirt (against my will), Scary Movie 2 (i liked the first one but wasn't much of a fan of this one), and even 3000 Miles to Graceland in theaters this year, and this was the quietest theater during a comedy that I have ever heard in my entire life.
It's like being in the middle of a big group of people in high school trying to beg for everyone's attention by being the funniest and most outgoing. Sure, you'll hear something that'll occasionally make you snicker, but in the end, you're just in the middle of a group of people who are just TRYING to be funny. That's how I felt while watching Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. All these actors in cameos desperately trying to get laughs out of one of the most lame comedy scripts I've ever seen put to screen in my life. "Clever"? "Funny"? "Sensitive"? I must just be one of those people whom everyone says "they just don't get it" about just because they don't find a Kevin Smith movie funny.
I don't hate Smith. Clerks was funny in parts, but amazingly boring in others. J&SBSB was just a baaaaaaaad movie. Period. I can't remember which reviewer said this, but it's absolutely true: How can Kevin Smith criticize Tim Burton at all, considering he ripped off pretty much the entire movie Pee Wee's Big Adventure? Even right down to the letting loose of a bunch of animals.
And I must have missed the supposed part where it makes fun of The Usual Suspects. Anyone care to fill me in on that one? Don't remember seeing anything resembling a parody of it, but I caught all the rest.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Thank you, Tino. I'm glad someone else had the courage to state the obvious fact that this film just wasn't that funny.

Wes,
Are you suggesting that anybody who thought this film was funny is lacking in courage???????? Just because you didn't find the film funny doesn't mean that others, who obviously found the film funny are lacking in anyway. Humor is very subjective just like individual taste in horror films!
Crawdaddy
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[Matthew Chmiel]

How can Kevin Smith criticize Tim Burton at all, considering he ripped off pretty much the entire movie Pee Wee's Big Adventure?

Well for the fact the movie was shot in early 2001 and all this ripping off ending fiasco happened in August 2001. Also I think he was making a homage to Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, not ripping it off.
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[Derek Miner]

Thank you, Tino. I'm glad someone else had the courage to state the obvious fact that this film just wasn't that funny. I saw Joe Dirt (against my will), Scary Movie 2 (i liked the first one but wasn't much of a fan of this one), and even 3000 Miles to Graceland in theaters this year, and this was the quietest theater during a comedy that I have ever heard in my entire life.

Wes, the rest of your points are noted, but the one quoted above is a bit hard to swallow. Just because people didn't laugh at Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back more than Joe Dirt or Scary Movie 2 says more about the audience than the movie. I saw Scary Movie 2 and I was amazed at the jokes that got laughs.
I saw Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back twice, and both times the audience was enthusiastic about the film. However, I didn't judge the humor on just the audience's reaction. What I thought were some of the best moments were met with near silence.
With comedies like Scary Movie 2 or Jay & Silent Bob, it gets very hard to judge whether the movie is "good" or "bad" because they don't have much deeper to offer than "is this funny to you or not?"
Oddly enough, Scary Movie 2 and Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back fall into similar territory when you try to compare their other artistic merits. They're both fast-paced, pop-culture obsessed, sex obsessed, joke-a-minute movies. Performances are broad and silly. Kevin Smith usually writes some personality into his characters, but everyone in Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back is a cartoon, much like the characters in Scary Movie 2.
In my opinion, the edge goes to Kevin Smith for two things. First, I don't find Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back to be as mean-spirited as Scary Movie 2 (or a number of other comedies of late). While Kevin Smith has pointed out that he dreamed up a gag akin to the "hair gel" scene in There's Something About Mary, I certainly doubt he'll ever do something like...
Spoiler:...the scene in Scary Movie 2 where Tori Spelling's character is assaulted by a ghost. Yeah, it's a take-off on Hollow Man, but still, I found it too offensive to be funny.
Secondly, Kevin Smith works his humor on different levels. If Scary Movie 2 offered any sly or clever commentary (other than perhaps one gag), I missed it.
Wes, I know that you weren't explicitly saying Scary Movie 2 was better than Jay & Silent Bob. This whole train of thought just came out when I read your post. I also know I'm not going to change anyone's opinion of the movie, which is fine. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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[Wes Ray]

I'm not saying I didn't like it because the audience didn't. I actually probably laughed more than they did if that tells you something. I was among a whole group of friends whom are Kevin Smith fanatics and I didn't hear them laughing much either. After it was over though, They said they liked it, but it was like pulling teeth getting them to say it. Like, they only said it so that Kevin Smith would save face or something. I've got to admit though, they're true fans evidently. True fans have to take up for even the worst of pictures. hehe.

 

[Chris Maynard]

quote: J&SBSB was just a baaaaaaaad movie. Period.[/quote]
Oh...thanks for the final word on the movie.

The movie is really one big in-joke and if you are not very familiar with Smith's work or the ViewAskew Universe you would miss a lot of the jokes and their associated humor.
Let me put it this way:
How many people who didn't like the film know who Rick Derris is?
[Edited last by Chris Maynard on August 29, 2001 at 09:10 PM]

 

[Seth Paxton]

I have no problem with people not enjoying the film. And Tino doesn't need courage to say so among the group of friends he has here, after all, that's why we are friends.
However, I'm a little concerned about the "obvious fact". And more than just that wording I'm hearing a lot of statements that sound akin to being the end-all, be-all statement of something that is opinion. And not just opinion, but opinion on comedy which varies more than any other film opinion.
Also, the Tim Burton thing is a joke, made-up controversy by the press. Smith corrected them after they spun it out of control, but by then they had already run to Burton with any quotes taking out of context and spun into an attack. As far as Burton knows it was serious, so he gets mad. I'm sure 1 phone call later and it's all in the past.
Also, when did Pee-Wee become the creation point of the "road" picture?? Give me a break.
Didn't Burton AT LEAST rip-off Hope/Crosby?? In fact, considering that we have a duo making the trip, aren't Jay and Bob more closely related to Hope and Crosby than Pee-Wee, ESPECIALLY considering the numerous inside/industry jokes and tips of the cap to the audiance (Hope always talks to the audiance, J&SBSB has several stares out to the audiance - Hope begs for Oscars, they have cuts from other films like African Queen, etc.).
What's next, will someone tell me that Last Man Standing is a rip-off of Fistful of Dollars?
Also, regarding the audiances reaction. Mine laughed a lot, BUT they sure didn't laugh at the "Greedo shot first" gag, I was all alone on that one. So it's tough to judge this film based soley on the audiances. And with that in mind, we have discussed before how a "good" audiance can improve your own enjoyment of a film while a "bad" one can ruin it. I would think that would have to play into any of our viewings of this film at least a little bit.

 

[Mitty]

From Ebert's review:

...the director was obviously unrestrained by any timid notions of "reaching the biggest possible audience,"...
...
The charm of a Kevin Smith movie is that it assumes you do not enter the theater as a blank slate.
...
Whether you will like "Jay and Silent Bob" depends on who you are. Most movies are made for everybody. Kevin Smith's movies are either made specifically for you, or specifically not made for you.

As far as I'm concerned all of those things are good. In the current timid studio climate in which every movie must be all things to all people, a film like this refreshing. Wes, imagine a horror movie made to appeal to horror fans, and to hell with people who weren't fans of the genre? It'd be pretty refreshing after all the teen-scream crap that's been churned out for the past few years, no?

 

[Matt Stone]

First let me say that I loved the film, and then let me say that I loved Kevin for making it this way for the reasons put for by Ebert's review. Kev didn't sell you and make a movie to make a shite-load of money...he made a film that his FANS would love, and his FANS do. Maybe some of you were in theaters that had no Kevin Smith fans at all...but the inhibitants of the theater that I was at were cracking up the entire time...and they really seemed to be enjoying themselves, as was I. If it isn't for you...it isn't for you, but this isn't the kind of film that you can crucify for being a "bad" film...because it doesn't have the same motivations as most.
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[Wes Ray]

I was mainly referring to the negative comments Smith has made in the past toward Burton in regards to the Superman project they were tied to for a while. I know the Apes thing ended up being a joke, but I'm pretty sure he was genuinely pissed over Superman.
All I'm saying is that the film wasn't that funny. Humor is subjective, I agree. I like a lot of stupid comedies that I'm sure other dislike, and vice versa. Clerks, for the most part was funny. I just thought a majority of the jokes (mostly the ones that tried to appeal to general audiences) fell completely flat. The best parts were the movie/internet references near the beginning and the Hollywood stuff toward the end. Most of the stuff in the middle, just simply wasn't that funny. The jokes that were there, were ill-timed and could've been better.
Even the George Carlin bit wasn't nearly as funny as it was portrayed to be in the trailers. It's like, Kevin Smith has good jokes, but he just doesn't know how to tell them 95% of the time. The things he says are sometimes funny, but he doesn't always have them set up to be said funny. Case in point: the casting of Will Farrell. I like Will Farrell a lot more than I used to, but sometimes, he just doesn't work on-screen. I tried to imagine a lot of the lame things he and other actors said in the film on paper, and some of it does sound like it could've been funnier with varying actors. As is, it just doesn't work.
I wanted to like this movie, because I didn't really care for Dogma all that much and I wanted to really get into the whole Kevin Smith thing. I guess this wasn't the film to convert me. I'll rent Mallrats and Chasing Amy and see if his screenwriting and directorial problems persist in those. I'll let you guys know what I think.

 

[Kevin Leonard]

Er, Wes, it's best if you stay away from Mallrats. If you hated Jay and Silent Bob, chances are you will hate Mallrats as well. And this is coming from a big-time Kevin Smith fan.
It attempts to be one of those comedies from the 80's--you know, random hijinks, a lot of action, bad music, and some gratuitous nudity--and fails spectacularly. There a few funny jokes here and there, but if you are even remotely turned off by the idea of Jay and Silent Bob taking center stage, you WILL not like Mallrats.
Jason Mewes in particular is incredibly annoying, and Jason London (or is it his brother Jeremy?) kinda stops the movie dead whenever he shows up. Plus (can't believe I'm saying this) it feels like Jason Lee is competing with Mewes for the most grating performance in the movie. And I don't even need to talk about Smith's directing...
(Though I freely admit the Mallrats DVD is absolutely killer; has one of the best commentaries I've ever heard.)
I recommend trying out Chasing Amy first; it is Smith's finest effort, and a serious sign that he can handle mature subject matter without making it sappy or patronizing. A great movie with a great sense of humor.
All IMHO of course.
Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled discussion of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back...
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[Edited last by Kevin Leonard on August 30, 2001 at 12:50 AM]

 

[Chris]

Agree. If Jay & Silent Bob aren't your cup of tea, Mallrats will go over like a brick; just avoid it.
Most of this all boils down to personal likes.. I argued this a long time ago in the HT Hardware area; about what kind of speaks / receivers, etc. you like and how the end goal is really only what you like, and what makes you happy - after all, it's your money. Same is true with flicks. Hey, I'm one of those people who didn't find American Pie funny (I laughed once, and thought the rest was pretty dull) but find "Army of Darkness" to be one of the funniest flicks in my collection.. I've argued with several people that ET (IMHO) was not a very good film, and at worst, sold us down a long string of flicks that were big product placements..
All film is subjective, not just comedy; lots of us in this forum truly enjoyed "Eyes Wide Shut" others hated it. A few years ago, many here debated whether or not "Trainspotting" was good or garbage.
It's all about your taste; some of us liked J&SB strike back; some hated it.. that's cool.
I'd rather have a film that riles emotion in enough people to get them to want to argue about it rather then a film bland enough that people walk out and say "eh, it was OK" and the subject matter is dropped
CW

 

[cafink]

The movie is really one big in-joke and if you are not very familiar with Smith's work or the ViewAskew Universe you would miss a lot of the jokes and their associated humor.

If I may say so, this is load of garbage. I paid my eight bucks, in exchange for which I should be treated to a couple hours entertainment. I understand that not everybody is going to be able to enjoy every movie, but to stipulate that I have to watch all these other movies first is rediculous.
There's nothing wrong with making sequels and spin-offs, or putting obscure references to other films in a movie, but if a film can't stand on its own, then it has failed at the most basic level.

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

Well, it's official. Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back is my favorite movie so far this year. Why? Simply put, it's the only movie released so far this year that I've wanted to go see a second time. I can't say any other film has done that for me this year.
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-J.Fo
"And you can tell Rolling Stone magazine that my last words were... 'I'm on drugs!'"

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Just want to throw this question out to everyone who enjoyed the movie.
A lot of mention has been made of the fact that if you are sensitive to foul language that this movie might not be for you.
Let's put another spin on it. If there was little or no foul language - does the movie have enough behind it to still be funny? Or would it be greatly castrated because of this?
I don't mean just removing or bleeping out the profanity but replacing such dialogue.
I guess Jay would in effect become more silent than Bob if I understand his character correctly.
Thoughts, comments...
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Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.

 

[Chris]

I think you'd have a different film (in regards to the removing profanity) part of what makes up the characters is that.. it would be somewhat like saying "If we were to redo 2001 and give HAL a cheery, womans voice, would the movie still be good?"
Probably a better look at it would be to think of it this way: would "South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut" be funny without profanity?
It's not that you would castrate the film, it's that you'd make a completely different film in the process, and you'd change the characters to something else.

 

[Seth Paxton]

. I know the Apes thing ended up being a joke, but I'm pretty sure he was genuinely pissed over Superman.

My mistake. There was just such a hubbub over the whole "he ripped me off for Apes" thing, and since you mentioned him ripping off Pee-Wee...

 

[Seth Paxton]

The profanity is part of the attitude (rather uptight and hostile), but dialog could be redone to still capture the spirit without the foul language, although it might end up awkward.
But I often think people label profanity as profanity for it's own sake, rather than carrying a person's feeling/meaning with it.
Let's be honest, there a lot more power behind "Fuck You" than there is with "To Heck With You". Or simply "What's going on" versus "What the fuck is going on". But if you could manage to rewrite the dialog to still contain that attitude, then I think Jay especially would still be funny (to those that find him funny). It's his blatent disregard for other people's feelings and his dim-witted mentality that make him funny. The joke is his inanity.
Some of the sexual jokes couldn't be done any other way, but some of them could, I think.

 

[Richard Kim]

The movie is really one big in-joke and if you are not very familiar with Smith's work or the ViewAskew Universe you would miss a lot of the jokes and their associated humor.
Let me put it this way:
How many people who didn't like the film know who Rick Derris is?

Not only do I know who Rick Derris is, I also know he played the cop who arrests J & SB outside of the QuickStop!
That being said, I didn't really laugh at any of the jokes in the film. The only thing I laughed at was the Good Will Hunting spoof!
I wrote in another thread that Clerks and Chasing Amy are my favorite Smith films because it is set firmly in reality. Once it goes into fantasy or outlandish settings, (Mallrats, Dogma, J&SBSB) it all falls apart.