DVD Review *** Official HTF REVIEW & Discussion Thread: Star Wars Trilogy, pt. 1 (1 Viewer)

[Jason_Els]

quote:In 2001, the rights to many of Chaplin's films became available. Several companies vied to license them. The Chaplin estate chose the Parisian company MK2, which holds the rights to the films for 12 years. With distribution through Warner Home Video, in 2003 MK2 began releasing The Chaplin Collection

-The DVD Journal

Legally? No. Warner appears to have legitimate legal rights.

Ethically? No. Once an artist submits work to public exhibition then it becomes open to criticism and the artist, depending on the reception of the work, has to endure the stings or enjoy the accolades. In Chaplin's case I would argue that if the estate gave its approval for the alteration then there's no leg to stand on. If Chaplin had never wanted this version shown then he should have ordered his estate not to do so in his will. If the estate has done something contrary to Chaplin's will then his heirs, if they have any rights, must take action.

In the case of Lucas's alterations to the Star Wars trilogy, I again state that Lucas doesn't quite grasp what he's started. Star Wars is his property. Other than licensed releases already legitmately sold to owners of the copies, he can do with the films what he likes.... legally.

Morally, Lucas is in a bit of a bind. He has created a cultural treasure beloved around the world and I believe he has an ethical duty to be a responsible custodian of his work.

Two years ago the Taliban destroyed the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan on the basis that they were idols and contrary to the Taliban's interpretation of religious doctrine. At the time, the Taliban were the government of Afghanistan and one could argue they were within their legal rights to destroy these ancient world-renown art treasures. Just as we could say the pyramids of Giza, the Sistine Chapel at the Vatican, the gardens of Japan, the Taj Mahal of India, are all fair game to their legal "owners". Now before you jump down my throat and say Lucas isn't just an owner but also a creator, let me state that the law doesn't give a whit about that. If you legally own a work, creator or not, it's yours to do with what you please.

Would you defend the right of those governments to destroy those treasures just because they are the legal owners? Would you believe that there is no stand on the part of others to be outraged at such an act?

About 10 years ago a Japanese businessman bought one of the Renoir-made copies of Renoir's Le Bal au Le Moulin de la Galette and announced that he wanted it to be cremated with him. The uproar in the art world immediately caused the businessman to apologize for not realizing the importance of the work and announced he would give it to a museum following his death. Crisis averted.

I think, if there are no legal limits, that there are moral limits to what an artist should be able to do with his or her work in some special circumstances. Star Wars doesn't exist in a vaccuum any more than the world treasures mentioned above. Altering such works must be done with grave care and forethought as they have exceeded the moral ownership of the artist and entered the rarified realm of cultural treasures that are beloved for their enrichment of the lives of mankind as a whole. I do not believe Lucas has that sense of custodianship. Star Wars has endured 27 years and shows no signs of waning as new generations discover its magic. It will surely outlast Lucas and he must look toward that time and understand that this work of art has outgrown his whims to become something shared very deeply by many others in the world and that he has a moral duty, as one human among billions, to allow his work, as it was created, to enrich the lives of those who are here and yet to come.

 

[Grant H]

BTW, for those interested, the "Digital Works" address would seem to be the right address to write to THX at based on my perusal at the website.

Swapped music aside, I would be more inclined to believe the music (and at least one sound effect) errors in ANH were a deliberate creative decision were they actually missing, not dialed down to near-nothing as they are. It's like something got bumped after doing the French track, or else not corrected until the French track. The inconsistency sure points to an error.

Somebody made an interesting remark earlier that I too have pondered. Would fixing the track be that hard? Does someone actually have to re-mix the track and sit there for hours re-doing it or are all the settings pre-programmed in a computer program somewhere much like a computer-controlled light or sound board or even CoolEdit Pro? It might be as simple as making a few adjustments in the program and then outputting the new audio file. Re-swap the surround music channels. dial up those music cues (or sound FX). Save, output, bang, you're done. Maybe.

 

[CraigL]

quote: Save, output, bang, you're done. Maybe.

You say that as if the only thing in the surrounds is the music. There's a little thing called directional sound effects

 

[Grant H]

No, Craig. I said re-swap the surround MUSIC channels. I assume the music and the effects aren't laid onto the same channels of the sound board. The final output would be the mixdown to the 5.1 EX track. Obviously, many, many, many more audio tracks exist than the channels on the DVD soundtrack.

My point is if there's a digital file of the film's sountrack saved that has all those tracks and levels set as they were when they did the mix as opposed to just the final 5.1 EX mix, the problems are a lot easier to correct. In this computer age we live in I would think that's likely the case. If I have to alter the music in a commercial, I don't have to start from scratch and re-do the whole thing (though occasionally that would be quicker in the end!). I just adjust what's there and dub the new edit into the system to air. I doubt my radio station is more sophisticated than Skywalker Sound.

 

[Chris:L]

Why couldn't they have added From Star Wars to Jedi? Is this new one better than From Star to Jedi and The making of Empire Strikes Back?

 

[Scott Weinberg]

Chris,


The doc on this DVD set is one of the best I've ever seen. Honestly.

 

[Paul_Stachniak]

What bothers me about Lucas, is not that he wants to change his films, rather then he cannot appreciate the craftsmanship of the originals.

 

[MikeRS]

quote:......rather then he cannot appreciate the craftsmanship of the originals.

He never did.

August 1977:

quote:-"Star Wars is about 25% of what I wanted it to be. It's really down there quite a bit. It's still a good movie but it fell so short of what I wanted it to be. And everyone said, "Well, Jesus, George you wanted the moon for Chrissake, you wanted to land on Pluto and you landed on mars."



-"In special effects one of the key elements is time and money. Most of those special effects in Star Wars were first-time special effects - we shot them, we composited them and they're in the movie. We had to go back a reshoot some, but in order to get special effects right, you really should shoot them two or three times before you figure out exactly how it should work, which is why it costs so much money. But most of our stuff we had to do as a one-shot deal. We did a lot of work but there is nothing that I would like to do more than go back and redo all the special effects, have a little more time."

 

[Jacinto]

quote:A Jedi Knight would know his father without actually seeing him before (He "wasn't a Jedi yet" before Vader told Luke the truth) Just like how he figured out Leia was his sister.

If a Jedi Knight is that powerful, he would also know both of his children without actually seeing them before.





This set is a a marvel, especially TESB. I definitely noticed the switched score in the surrounds in ANH, and it bothered me a lot. I don't care for most of the changes to the film, but they sure don't stop me from enjoying these films. My biggest gripe with the new changes is young Anakin at the end of Jedi, and it's not because it doesn't make sense to me -- it's all in the performance. Sebastian Shaw looks like a father, incredibly proud of his son, and at the same time, almost humbled by what his son was able to do. There is a sense of joy and of sadness in seeing him along side Yoda and Obi-Wan. Young Anakin, however, still looks and acts like the arrogant prick I've grown to despise from the 600 times my son has watched AOTC on dvd. There is nothing soft or heartwarming in his eyes or face, and that, to me, ruins the feel of that scene.

 

[Sam Davatchi]

quote:My biggest gripe with the new changes is young Anakin at the end of Jedi, and it's not because it doesn't make sense to me -- it's all in the performance. Sebastian Shaw looks like a father, incredibly proud of his son, and at the same time, almost humbled by what his son was able to do. There is a sense of joy and of sadness in seeing him along side Yoda and Obi-Wan. Young Anakin, however, still looks and acts like the arrogant prick I've grown to despise from the 600 times my son has watched AOTC on dvd. There is nothing soft or heartwarming in his eyes or face, and that, to me, ruins the feel of that scene.

Exactly, the new Anakin in ROTJ doesn’t look redeemed but evil. He looks like saying to himself, "So you are partying you bastards? I’m going to hunt you all down!"

 

[Aaron_Brez]

quote:My point is if there's a digital file of the film's sountrack saved that has all those tracks and levels set as they were when they did the mix as opposed to just the final 5.1 EX mix, the problems are a lot easier to correct. In this computer age we live in I would think that's likely the case.

GrantH,



You raise a good point. It depends on a lot of things. For one, if the soundtrack mix was done in the analog domain and then digitized or the stems were digitized and then mixed digitally-- if analog mix, then it's a lot more work to replicate it.



I've gotta believe Skywalker Sound is doing all their mixing in the digital realm, though, so that argument's more of a strawman than anything else. What becomes the next question is: when did the mix-up occur?



If it happened that LR music was mixed with the LR dialogue and FX tracks, the settings were recorded, and then the RR music file was accidentally substituted at the end, then it's probable that the scenario you outlined could occur: push a button with the right files in the right places, and out spits a new, proper mix. You'd still have to mux them together and encode into DD5.1EX, but that's almost trivial. I could do that on my rig at home.

On the other hand, if the mix-up happened upstream in the process, and the sound mixers originally tweaked all their levels setting using the RR music and the LR dialogue/FX, then now you've got a remix to do, because the levels may be inappropriate now that the sources are different.



I don't know what monkey wrenches the matrixing of the two rears for the rear center speaker in EX mode would throw in; perhaps it would be handled in software, but I'd think the dynamics of the EX channel might be thrown off if the channels it is derived from change.



I guess what I'm saying is that depending on where the "deliberate creative decision" occured, this fix could be either a $10,000 button press done by an intern, or a $100-500,000 rear-channel remix done by the senior guy(s) on the staff.



I can see why Lucasfilm may be balking, but I don't have to like it.

 

[David Coleman]

Well just to share my thoughts. I'm very pleased by the release. I think with the exception of a little too much darkness in some scenes the picture quality was just excellent!!! The audio though not as dynamic as a modern soundtrack was very involving and intense! Now I will agree that ANH was the weakest of the soundtracks and I believe I heard the "flipping" that has been discussed but it didn't seriously disturb my enjoyment. However can't complain at all on ESB and ROTJ.



I thought the documentary and featurettes were excellent particularily the documentary.



Well worth the $44.99 I paid for it!!!

 

[Nick T Robot]

quote:If a Jedi Knight is that powerful, he would also know both of his children without actually seeing them before.

The Dark Side has it's limitations.

 

[Mike_G]

For fun, I was watch my THX WOW DVD.



Pink saber in the Jedi clips. Makes you go "hmmm".



My friend has a 35mm print of Jedi so we'll have to run it someday so I have something physical to check it against.



Mike

 

[Richard Kim]

quote:My biggest gripe with the new changes is young Anakin at the end of Jedi, and it's not because it doesn't make sense to me -- it's all in the performance. Sebastian Shaw looks like a father, incredibly proud of his son, and at the same time, almost humbled by what his son was able to do. There is a sense of joy and of sadness in seeing him along side Yoda and Obi-Wan. Young Anakin, however, still looks and acts like the arrogant prick I've grown to despise from the 600 times my son has watched AOTC on dvd. There is nothing soft or heartwarming in his eyes or face, and that, to me, ruins the feel of that scene.

From the ROTJ novel:

quote:Vader saw his son crying, and knew it must have been at the horror of the face the boy beheld.



It intensified, momentarily, Vader's own sense of anguish-to his crimes, now, he added guilt at the imagined repugnance of his appearance. But then this brought him to mind of the way he used to look- striking, and grand, with a wry tilt to his brow that hinted at invincibility and took in all of life with a wink. Yes, that was how he'd looked once.

I thought that Anakin's look at the end shows this perfectly, as well as showing his pride for his children.

 

[Tim Glover]

Interesting Richard. I've owned the novels for years of the OT, but never read them. Good find.



I didn't like the look on Hayden's face at first. Just didn't think he looked ready for the take...but it's growing on me.

 

[Ricardo C]

Same here. I still don't like the pacing of it, but Hayden's expression makes much more sense now.

 

[nousername]

As a compromise for all those who are complaining that the original movies are not on DVD, Lucas should have at least included the changed scenes in a "Deleted/Changed Scenes" section. This would have been a way for fans of the original versions of the movies to at least view these scenes again on DVD, even if they are on a separate disc. This way, we can once again enjoy: Han shooting first, the original music in Jabba's palace, the original music at the end of ROTJ, the original ending of ROTJ (with the old Anakin), and so on.



These "deleted" or changed scenes don't even have to be restored or presented in anamorphic 16:9. Therefore, it wouldn't cost Lucasfilms much time or money at all to do this. They can even do a before/after sequence for each changed scene so that people can see the differences. A commentary on the changes would also be nice.



This way, everyone can be satisfied. Lucas can have his enhanced versions, and historians and fans can once again view the original versions of the altered scenes, even if they are on a separate section of the disc set and no longer integrated into the original movies.



Perhaps Lucasfilms is planning on this for the super deluxe box set when Episode III becomes available on DVD. One can only hope...

 

[Robert Anthony]

quote:Lucas should have at least included the changed scenes in a "Deleted/Changed Scenes" section.

Actually, and I don't know if Kevin Burns did this by design or if it was happy accident, but almost EVERY single change made to ANH, ESB and ROTJ on these new 2004 versions is reversed in the documentary footage. So basically, I think except for the original Death Star II explosion (Which you can see on the 1997 SE trailer) every single significant change to the saga is reversed in the documentary.

 

[Juan C]

Hi, I usually just read here, but I wanted to say something.



I didn't find the article on boxofficemojo "fantastic". Especially because, as a citizen of a country that endured nearly 40 years of fascist rule which enforced strict censorship on all media, I find that trivialization of fascism and censorship deeply offensive.



Not to mention that he telescopes the fandom's position, making them appear as if they wanted to force George Lucas to release the old versions instead of the new, when the vast majority are asking for the old version in addition to the new.