**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106* (2 Viewers)

[Adam Gregorich]

Reggie-
What would you have done differently?

 

[Paul.S]

Oh--at some point the Jesse BD was moved up three weeks -and- the HD was moved back three? Weren't they both originally 2/26? At least as of this typing Netflix, Amazon and High Def Digest still say 2/26--are they wrong? DVD Empire says 3/18.

 

[Sam Posten]

For me, it would depend on how crappy their remote is =p

 

[bigluigi]

Of course it matters. As long as Toshiba manufactures low cost HD-DVD players "the game is still afoot." HARDWARE sells SOFTWARE (just look at the PS3) and if enough hardware is sold....well, anything can happen down the road. Come on Toshiba....KICK THAT MULE!!!

 

[Jesse Blacklow]

Sorry, but this argument no longer matters. HD DVD sold the hardware throughout 2007, and it didn't do enough. As it stands now, they're not even selling the hardware. They've been beat in non-PS3 player sales for what, 2.5 months now, including the busiest electronics buying period? Non-BOGO titles are getting crushed by insane amounts like 30:1, and their day-and-date titles usually don't break into double digits in sales ratios. Considering that day-and-date titles are the lifeblood of the home video industry, that's pretty telling.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Actually, Toshiba stopped doing that already. They're now making/selling competitively priced upconverting DVD players w/ HDD playback as an extra feature.

Honestly, at this point, all they can really do is clear out inventory and also help clear out software inventory (w/ whatever new "buyers") unless they really want to keep paying Universal and Paramount (and Dreamworks) to keep the format (barely) alive...

_Man_

 

[Brandon Conway]

The original date was 2/26. Then Warner announced a 3-week delay for the HD-DVD, which made it 2/26 for BD and 3/18 for HD. Then Warner announced a 3-week bump for BD, making it 2/5 for BD and 3/18 for HD-DVD.

 

[Paul.S]

Thx, BC.

 

[ReggieW]

Sanjay, I think I remember hearing that Universal was going to wait until Ang Lee finished work on the eventual SE (months down the road) before releasing it to HD-DVD. I believe the same thing happened with Brokeback Mountain when they released it on HD-DVD. Of course, I heard this BEFORE the big Warner announcement, so who knows what'll happen now. I do agree with you that 'Lust, Caution' was a phenomenal film, and one I WILL certainly be picking up in whichever HD format it eventually surfaces in.

 

[bigluigi]

Impressive statistics, perhaps, to AV enthusiasts in this forum but totally meaningless to J6P. To illustrate my point, two of the biggest bombshells to hit this forum were the Paramount and Warner decisions to go exclusive and neither event was deemed newsworthy enough to make the business section of my Albuquerque newspaper!!! A tempest in a teacup....this format war.

HDM has barely scratched the surface of consumer electronics and will never reach the popularity level of SD DVD unless and until hardware/software prices come down and even that may not be enough.

No one will argue that Toshiba HD products are the most reasonably priced and is a strong selling point to value conscious consumers, but as Adam said earlier.....is going forward worth the gamble/risk. Only time will tell.

 

[ReggieW]

Thought you'd never ask Adam.

In no particular order (assuming I was the HD-DVD Czar):

- I would've run far more television ads touting the advantages of the format over SD-DVD. This goes for in print and store as well. This is a note the HD-DVD PRG should've taken from the BDA.

- I would've eliminated combo's, thus lowering the retail prices on new releases ($32.95 instead of $39.95). Combo's would've only come into play when there was NO SD VERSION available and the twin and/or TL-51 was ready (assuming they ever became a reality). IF they wanted combos to serve a more practical purpose, they should've convinced Univeral & Warner to make their day/date SD-DVD SE's the actual combo. There would be no need for a third HD-DVD combo SKU since the SE would be it. You pay $5-$7 extra and get the extras with the feature in HD to boot.

-It would've been nice if Toshiba had offered incentives for the Weinstein's to stay onboard. Afterall, I'm certain the sum would've been chickenfeed compared to Paramount. It really didn't look good when they ceased releasing HD-DVD titles.

- I would've released MORE catalog titles which people wanted to see. I wouldn't have released all of the big guns, but we really should of saw more catalog releases in the 4th qtr from the HD-DVD studios. I still believe they screwed up royally here.

-The Microsoft add-on should've been given a price drop to $99.00 by the 3rd qtr/2007. With A3's going for $99.00 in some quarters by October, who would've invested in the add-on?

-When HD-DVD had their momentum at the end of 2006, they should've went with it. Instead, they released few titles the 1st three months of 2007 (coupled with a player shortage in Fall/Winter 2006) and allowed Sony to cement their lead with the PS3. HD-DVD never recovered from this in the sales arena.

I am sure there are others, but this is what I've come up with off the top of my head. I am certain other members here could think of more examples. This is not saying that my plan is itself "fullproof", but I do think that it represents a step up over the campaign run by Mr. Graffeo & Co.

Naturally.....all of this would've been mute if the industry had LAUNCHED WITH ONE FORMAT!!!!

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Aye, and really, I'd say it's *definitely* not worth the gamble. Certainly, *YOU* of all people should think it's not worth it considering how much you doubt HDM will ever take off. And while the Tosh HD players are indeed very attractively priced, especially now, but really, it's all too little too late now. As it is, they didn't even make the most of their SuperBowl spot a couple weeks ago. And neither Universal nor Paramount (nor Dreamworks) are showing any real support at this point either. And the various major retail and rental outlets have also started pulling the plug too. It all sure looks like they've basically given up now -- or they will very soon...

_Man_

 

[Dave Moritz]

And the articles just keep coming, this just out February 13th, 2008.

The high-definition format war is over - Tech it Out! with Paul Hochman - MSNBC.com

The article head line says "The High Definition War Is Over". While we all know that Toshiba only has two major movie studios left, someone better tell Toshiba its over. Here we are over 1 month after WB making there announcement to go Blu-ray only. And the very defiant Toshiba pressing on with very little support for HD-DVD. And both Universal and Paramount who said they would continue support for HD-DVD and that was not going to change anytime soon. This is stuff we all know and is nothing new, but even with Paramount and Uni not jumping ship. Where are the announcement of new HD titles? I realize that this happened last year but this really does not help Toshiba gain one once of ground in the format war. We should be hearing about titles like Back To The Future, Jurassic Park, Lust Caution, Batteries Not Included, American Graffiti, Forest Gump, Titanic, Braveheart, Indiana Jones, Planes Trains and Automobiles, Terms Of Endearment, To Catch A Thief, It's A Wonderful Life, Always, Conan and more.

But instead we are hearing nothing which leads me to belive that Toshiba, Paramount and Universal is quietly trying to sell off as much product as they can. And this is just my opinion but I honestly feel that is what is going on currently. And with retailers backing away and news media telling the consumer the war is over. 2008 will most likely go down as the year HD-DVD died. Even after HD-DVD is dead I will continue to enjoy the HD-DVD catalog I already own and will most likely not replace with Blu-ray versions. But I have already been buying mostly Blu-ray for months now, and that is mostly because thats where the titles are. At least that is where the titles I want most are.

The last HD-DVD titles I will most likely purchase unless something great comes out.

The Jack Ryan Collection
White Noise
Battlestar Galactica
2001

At this point only Toshiba knows when they will officially give up. But this all could end without Toshiba actually raising the white flag. But even with HD-DVD fait already being locked up, I look forward to many more titles in HD being released over the next few years.

And all I can not wait for Ben Hur, Gone With The Wind and Wizard Of Oz to come out in HD, I bet these are going to look stunning! I also am counting the days for titles like Lord Of The Rings, Jurassic Park, Back To The Future, Saving Private Ryan, Gladiator and Open Range just to mention a few. I am sure we all have titles that we would love to see in HD and I am hoping that HD titles will start coming out more frequently.

 

[PaulDA]

You can buy 2001 in "blu". Just FYI.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I might just pick it up on Blu-ray but my two local retailers seem to have been out of stock when I looked for it. But they allways seemed to have the HD-DVD version of 2001. So if I see a Blu-ray copy on the shelf I will buy it, if not then the HD-DVD version will do just fine.

Thanks for the reminder Paul.

 

[f1nuts]

it was the deal that saved hddvd ...then the wife woke me up:frowning: .....

seeing as rentings getting pretty slim for hd dvd ..... and with redbox sprouting up on every corner lot or outside every mcdonalds etc ...surely toshiba should be giving them a large check or something ?... they could help !....how many other options do hd dvd owners have left for renting......c'mon redbox , before you turns into a blu box

 

[loganhunter2002]

Ok. I don't get it. Are you trying to start a flame thread?

 

[f1nuts]

not sure what you mean ?.......... but surely its a better idea than the dipshits in the tosh marketing area have come up with so far....why not have one last attempt for the sake of all us hd dvd owners

 

[Dave_P.]

Toshiba to drop HD DVD, sources say

Toshiba to drop HD DVD, sources say
Company says no decision has been made

By Thomas K. Arnold and Erik Gruenwedel

Feb 15, 2008

The format war has turned into a format death watch.

Toshiba is widely expected to pull the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks, reliable industry sources say, after a rash of retail defections that followed Warner Home Video's announcement in early January that it would support only the rival Blu-ray Disc format after May.

Officially, no decision has been made, insists Jodi Sally, vp of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products. "Based on its technological advancements, we continue to believe HD DVD is the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings," she said.

But she hinted that something's in the air. "Given the market developments in the past month," she said, "Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of our recent price reductions on all HD DVD players."

Immediately after the Warner announcement, the HD DVD North American Promotional Group canceled its Consumer Electronics Show presentation. The following week, data collected by the NPD Group revealed Blu-ray took in 93% of all hardware sales for that week.

Toshiba subsequently fired back, drastically cutting its HD DVD player prices by as much as half, effective Jan. 15. But a hoped-for consumer sales surge never materialized; retail point-of-sale data collected by the NPD Group for the week ending Jan. 26 still showed Blu-ray Disc players ahead by a wide margin, 65% to 28%.

Software sales have declined as well. The latest Nielsen VideoScan First Alert sales data show the top-selling Blu-ray Disc title for the week, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment's "Across the Universe," sold more than three times as many copies the week ending Feb. 10 as the top HD DVD seller, Universal Studios Home Entertainment's "Elizabeth: The Golden Age." Blu-ray Disc titles also accounted for 81% of all high-def disc sales for the week, with HD DVD at just 19%.

Toshiba had been pitching its discounted HD DVD players toward the standard DVD crowd as well as high-def enthusiasts, noting in its ad message that the new players would make DVDs look a lot better as well. And as a last-ditch effort, the company ran an ad during the Super Bowl -- a 30-second spot that reportedly cost $2.7 million.

But in the end, sources say, the substantial loss Toshiba is incurring with each HD DVD player sold -- a figure sources say could be as high as several hundred dollars -- coupled with a series of high-profile retail defections has driven the company to at last concede defeat.

"An announcement is coming soon," said one source close to the HD DVD camp. "It could be a matter of weeks."

Microsoft is the other big player in the HD DVD equation. Last fall when Paramount Home Entertainment announced it was dropping its dual-format strategy and would release titles only in HD DVD, giving that side a brief resurgence, a pitch to journalists for interviews came from a Microsoft email address.

Several phone calls to Kevin Collins, Microsoft's normally accessible "HD DVD evangelist," were not returned. Nor were calls to Ken Graffeo, the Universal Studios Home Entertainment executive who doubles as co-president of the HD DVD North American Promotional Group.

When Warner abandoned HD DVD in January, the format was left with just two of the six major studios backing it, Universal Studios Home Entertainment and Paramount Home Entertainment. Blu-ray support among independents is rising. ADV Films, Tai Seng Entertainment, Topics Entertainment and National Geographic have all confirmed they are going Blu-ray exclusive, while more than one indie that was releasing titles just on HD DVD, including Surround Records and Opus Arte, will now offer Blu-ray as well.

This week, two key retailers, Best Buy and Netflix Inc., both got off the fence and threw their support behind Blu-ray exclusively, citing widespread studio support and consumer preference. Both companies said Warner's decision was a turning point in their strategies.

"We've listened to our customers, and we are responding," said Best Buy president and COO Brian Dunn.

Netflix spokesperson Steve Swasey said it appeared the format war had been won by Blu-ray for the benefit of everyone.

"We wanted to put an exclamation point behind that," he said.

Industry observers are closely watching Amazon, but there's been no movement, other than a 50% off sale for 150 HD DVD titles, including "Transformers," "Zodiac" and "Stardust."

Blockbuster Inc. last summer already decided to offer only Blu-ray Disc titles at its company-owned rental stores.

Chris Tribbey, Home Media Magazine senior reporter, contributed to this report.

 

[loganhunter2002]

This report is quoting from things happening during the CES2008.