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*** Official "HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE" Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

Ray H

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I saw this earlier today. It's quite good, but it's not quite my favorite of the series. I still like Goblet of Fire & Prisoner of Azkaban better.

I think the ending was a tad weak. It was missing a few key moments from the book. Notably in the book, Harry is petrified during the Dumbledore/Draco/Snape confrontation and is powerless to do anything. In the movie, Harry waits idly by for something to happen when he probably could've disarmed Draco had he chosen to. Additionally, they could have built up the scene between Draco & Dumbledore a bit more. I did like Harry's and Snape's moment together before Snape kills Dumbledore though. The escape of the villains wasn't too great in my opinion. In the book, it's quite epic. Especially with Hagrid in the mix. The final confrontation between Harry and Snape also lacks the power of the book. A bit of a shame considering the seventh book. Furthermore, the lack of a funeral robs the ending of some of its power. In the book, the final moments of Harry vowing to hunt for the horcruxes was much more stirring than the way it was presented in the movie. It also feels wrong for Ron to be sitting away from the others. Foreshadowing, perhaps?

As it has been for the last few Potter movies, a few details could've been elaborated on to set up the final movie(s) better. Snape's past has never been detailed in the movies so it takes away from the "is he or isn't he?" question, especially the reason Harry has to suspect him. Additionally, the explanation of the horcruxes was lacking. Sure, the audience understands what they are, but Harry has no clue how he'd go about finding them. The next movie will have to do some seriously heavy lifting. This lack of explanation also plays into why the final scene of the movie isn't as powerful as it should be. Furthermore, we never see the faculty or anyone besides the trio finding out about Snape's role in Dumbledore's death and the fate of the school isn't thrown into question like in the book. Nor do we see the public reaction to Dumbledore's death, something that could've been helped by the funeral scene.

If there is a single failing of the movie, it's that the focus on the love stories, the relatively warm feel, and the lack of seeing Voldemort put the whole Voldemort-is-gaining-power-and-amassing-an-army-and-the-days-are-growing-darker vibe at bay. The last two felt like much more foreboding movies. It'll be a tough transition to the next movie when Voldemort is pretty much in full power and the heroes need to watch their every move. Actually, even though I didn't care much for the Order of the Phoenix movie, most of its strengths are missing here - notably how it portrayed the wizarding community as a whole instead of just a group of kids. None of the happenings of the outside world really reverberated throughout the school.
 

Ray H

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Originally Posted by Adam Sanchez

Oh ok.

I actually don't remember the details about the Prince, why he was called a Prince. Someone want to fill me in?
He took his name after his muggle father, while his mother, a pure-blood, was named Eileen Prince.
 

drobbins

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Thanks for the replies.

1 - This was an addition only in the movie. I would say it is just showing that the deatheaters are becoming more brazen now that Voldemort is back and hinting that the muggle-world is in jeopardy as well as all the good wizards.
That was what I thought at first, but they did not show any more attacks, or at least newspaper headlines referencing attacks. It also just basically showed the bridge falling apart. It did not really show any terror or fear.


2 - I know the book clarified quite a bit about the disappearances but I guess the movie only hinted at it. The deatheaters are recruiting. Those who turn them down don't get left alone, they get eliminated. Also, they are attacking/intimidating those who would stand against them.
I figured that bad things were happening to them, but was it slavery, work camps, brain washing, torture, execution or what? That is why that guy was disguised as a couch. That was pretty funny.


3 - As I recall, the book does not have much of the returned Voldemort either. It does have a lot more memories about the young Voldemort, detailing much of his family background and such. This movie did not really need him in it, but I also feel this movie falls a bit short because it feels like a placeholder/transition film (and Voldemort's absence adds to that).
Until this movie, the whole story was about the battle and mysterious connection between Voldemort and Harry. This movie did not touch on that at all.


4 - I don't want to get too spoilerific for the next movie(s) but I think I can safely say that Dumbledore had a plan. The movie does give you enough of the book stuff to wonder about Snape. Did he really turn bad? Was it all part of Dumbledore's plan? Stay tuned... :) Oh, and death in the Potter universe does seem to pretty final as I recall.
I figured that he was up to something, but with out him coming back to life, or some Star Wars "force afterlife" thing going on, I could not figure out how a man of his skill would serve the cause better off dead.


I think it's significant that the question on every person's lips after the sixth book came out, "Snape good or evil?" was not one that Dave had, his question was about Dumbledore. Shows how the scene was mishandled in the execution.
I always figured that Snape was like a double agent type that had no real alliance to either side, but at the time it was convenient to be on the good side. Now it is more convenient to be on the bad side. He has had many, many chances to kill Harry but has not, per his quote that "Harry belongs to Voldemort". After Snape kills Dmbledore, he has proven to all on the dark side which side he is on. The only way I could see that action for the good side, is if that was the plan. To get Snape close and to win Voldemort's trust and then kill Voldemort.
 

JonZ

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From wiki

"Snape's family background is mostly shown in flashbacks during the course of the last three novels. Snape was born to Eileen Prince, a witch, and Tobias Snape, a Muggle, making him a half-blood. Snape spent his early childhood living with his parents in a small house in Spinner's End."
 

Ray H

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Originally Posted by drobbins

I always figured that Snape was like a double agent type that had no real alliance to either side, but at the time it was convenient to be on the good side. Now it is more convenient to be on the bad side. He has had many, many chances to kill Harry but has not, per his quote that "Harry belongs to Voldemort". After Snape kills Dmbledore, he has proven to all on the dark side which side he is on. The only way I could see that action for the good side, is if that was the plan. To get Snape close and to win Voldemort's trust and then kill Voldemort.
Here's how the book handled Snape, but none of it's in the movies. Snape was a Death Eater, siding with Voldemort back in the day. One day in some dark tavern, Trelawney tells the prophecy to Dumbledore that the Chosen One will vanquish the Dark Lord. Snape overhears this and relays this info to Voldemort. Voldemort acts on this, realizing that the Chosen One was Harry Potter and goes off to kill him. Snape goes over to Dumbledore's side before the Potters are killed/Voldemort loses his powers. Dumbledore has absolute faith in Snape and when Voldemort regains power, uses him as a double agent to spy on the Death Eaters. But is Snape really on Dumbledore's side or has he been a faithful servant to Voldemort all along?
 

JonZ

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"Voldemort acts on this, realizing that the Chosen One was Harry Potter and goes off to kill him"

In the book, something I was hoping would be make it into the films,Voldemort isnt sure if the prophecy is about Harry or Neville Longbottom.


Since its being split into 2 parts, Im expecting the Deathly Hollows films to fill in some more of the blanks regarding Snape making everything clear for people who didnt read the books.
Edited by JonZ - 7/15/2009 at 08:15 pm GMT
 

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The movie showed more of the connection between Harry and Voldemort than the book did. In the movie you see Dumbledore notice something that isn't explained until the end of the 7th book. There was no current time Voldemort in either the movie or the books, but through memories he was a central character in both.
 

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This film had some great moments. But the opening segment was cut up in such a way it felt as though it was vignettes of the book, and missed some of what I thought were the great connections. I did however feel like the acting, especially Rickman and others was truly top form, and helped really make this film far better then it could have been otherwise.
I also hate the color scheme, I feel as though it doesn't offer a bold enough difference between settings, as everything too easily blends together.
 

Simon Massey

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I really enjoyed this - what surprised me was the humour. Very funny esp. Harry 'stoned' on that potion! I have only read the books once and that was a while ago but the only thing i would have liked more of in the film was more of voldemort's backstory. can someone remind me are two of the Horcruxes the diary and the ring that Dumbledore had. At least that's what the film seemed to say and i liked the reaction that Harry has when he tries to touch the ring and what that implies for the next film. I would rate this as good as the last one but Azkaban is still my favourite 1. Prisoner of Azkaban 2. Goblet of Fire 3. Half Blood Prince 4. Order of the Phoenix and way way behind 5. Chamber of Secrets 6. Philosopher's Stone
 

Adam Lenhardt

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Originally Posted by Adam_S /img/forum/go_quote.gif

It's a shame that the movie is not immensely better, there are so many good aspects in spite of the director. Even Columbus was superior to the shite Yates manages to make of good material. Thankfully, Kloves was back to rescue the writing/characters from the rape and pillaging of the fifth movie. the 'get this crap over with' attitude from the last film is gone, so it's not all just propulsive meaningless plot, but the lack of a sense of pace, stakes or tension for most of the film is still omnipresent, which can make the film feel like it's dragging even when it's clipping along at a solid rate. And no, the death eaters making a pedestrian bridge go wobbly with a streak of black smoke is not raising the stakes for the audience because it has no stake in the story, its pretty much irrelevant.

I agree that the beginning is self-defeating. They were trying to increase the stakes and tension by creating another setpiece in a story that is short on them. Ironically, the Prime Minister chapter from the book does a better job of increasing the stakes because Fudge lays out what's going on in context; in that lens, the bridge collapse is just the latest sign of the Death Eaters' increasingly boldness. Ironically, the technique of flashing Daily Prophet headlines that segue into one that Yates innovated for the last film would have been a perfect alternative way of establishing the stakes this time around.

That being said, I thought Yates did a tremendously better job this time around than last, and in particular got the best performances that this series has seen yet. The editing suffered from the same problem as the previous film -- an overabruptness to the editing early on so that beats don't have room to breath. Curiously, this problem improves over the course of both films so that the last hour is much better edited than the first. Unlike Order of the Phoenix, I didn't notice any obvious continuity errors with Half-Blood Prince. Kloves put a lot of small moments into this film, and Yates captures all of them. His effort here makes me far more excited about the final two-parter.
I wish there was more Snape and more of Harry's relationship to the Half-Blood Prince.

And the decisions here made it so pathetically obvious what Snape is. There were entire books devoted to this question before the publishing of the final novel. Good thing the film hadn't come along because it's about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face.

I'm not sure there way any way for that not to be the case. Much of what tilts us toward the proper conclusion about Snape in this film is derived from Rickman's performance. And for his scenes in Dealthy Hallows not to feel like a cheat, he had to play it the way he did. It's probably the way Snape was in the book too, but because was experience the world from Harry's perspective, that's not how it's presented to us on the page.
The only other change was Kloves's decision to bring in in a snippet of conversation that took place roughly where it was featured here but not revealed until the text of the seventh book. The part Harry overhears in this movie is rather more ambiguous than the entirety that is revealed in DH. The beat is crucial to the movie, however, because it's part of what leads Harry to trust Snape in the observation tower.
I know that a lot of people are going to hate that the circumstances of Dumbledore's death were changed from Harry watching helplessly (again petrified under the Invisibility Cloak) to Harry consciously deciding not to intervene. It's a fair argument, but I really liked this change because it trusts Harry more than the book did. In the book, forcing Dumbledore to drink the potion was the worst thing Harry had to endure. In the film, Dumbledore forces him to endure something even worse: a fealing of culpability in his death. The main reason I approve of the change has to do with the last film however (BOOK SEVEN SPOILERS):


In the movie's iteration of events, Harry has even more reason to hate Snape than he did in the book; it's not just Dumbledore's trust that Snape seemed to have betrayed, it was Harry's as well. It makes Snape's murderous act personal, which will make his ability to forgive Snape during Snape's final moments even more powerful.

Another masterful bit of Rickman's performance comes in the final confrontation outside Hagrid's burning hut. Instead of playing it like a furious villain finally unleashed, Rickman plays it like a teacher desperately trying to drill a fact into a stupid student's head. He mixes a perfect air of sneering condescension about it with an earnest desperation to make Harry understand the full measure of what he's gotten himself wrapped up in.
all that said, because the comedy is so successful at developing the characters this is probably my second favorite of the movies, though rewatchs of the other five are on deck for... sometime soon. and it's likely that Azkaban will rise back up to the number two slot.
This one handily slips in behind Goblet of Fire on my list, and is unlikely to move before the next film comes out. Both end with a note of visual poetry that expresses something emotionally undescribable. I love the way the chariot takes off into the sky and the ship slips back into the lack in GOF, one of my all-time favorite shots, but Fawkes's last flight as he sings his morning song as the Trio contemplate the rough road ahead of them actually brought a tear to my eye. It was the most moving part of the funeral in the book, and Bruno Delbonnel captures it perfectly.

My take:
  1. Goblet of Fire
  2. Half-Blood Prince
  3. Chamber of Secrets
  4. Sorcerer's Stone
  5. Prisoner of Azkaban
  6. Order of the Phoenix
Originally Posted by Ray H /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I think the ending was a tad weak. It was missing a few key moments from the book. Notably in the book, Harry is petrified during the Dumbledore/Draco/Snape confrontation and is powerless to do anything. In the movie, Harry waits idly by for something to happen when he probably could've disarmed Draco had he chosen to. Additionally, they could have built up the scene between Draco & Dumbledore a bit more.
Harry didn't intervene because Dumbledore ordered him not to. Sometimes the braver thing is not being a hero, but trusting that you've placed your faith in the right people. Giving Harry the freedom of choice made the moment far more powerful.

They did leave out one moment that I really missed, since it's among the most moving of the entire series. Harry is desperately trying to reassure a half-dead Dumbledore as he half-carries him back to Hogwarts from Hogsmeade, when Dumbledore cuts him off: "I'm not worried, Harry. I'm with you."

It's the moment in the series where the burden shifts from Dumbledore's shoulders to Harry's, and it's the greatest show of genuine respect that Dumbledore could have offered Harry.


That being said, the shift is made clear in the film and Draco's repeated attempts at assassinating Dumbledore effectively build up to the scene on the Astronomy tower, such that it feels inevitable. I love Dumbledore's line to Draco. "I once knew a boy that made all the wrong choices..." Gambon's delivery is so chilling, and it serves as the first shot across the bow in the battle for Draco Malfoy's soul.
A bit of a shame considering the seventh book. Furthermore, the lack of a funeral robs the ending of some of its power. In the book, the final moments of Harry vowing to hunt for the horcruxes was much more stirring than the way it was presented in the movie. It also feels wrong for Ron to be sitting away from the others. Foreshadowing, perhaps?
I didn't find the funeral particularly affecting in the book, since it was filled with people that weren't particularly friendly toward Dumbledore in life; a political rather than emotional affair. The most stirring part of the funeral -- Fawkes's last flight -- was included in the film and included quite beautifully. I'm very glad that the film leaves Harry and Ginny's relationship as an open question rather than having the Spider-Man funeral "I can't allow myself to be with you" scene. I hated it in Spider-Man, and I hated it in the HBP book too. While I missed the big Harry/Ginny kiss from the book, I was moved by the fact that Ginny and Harry's relationship is announced to the world when she seperates from the crowd to hold him as he falls apart over Dumbledore's body. It's such a brutally adult, selfless kind of love; Ginny's probably as devastated as everyone else that Dumbledore died, but she holds it together so Harry has a rock to lean on. Bonnie Wright is graceful in a way that is mature but not precocious. I also found the beat where Hogwarts students and staff use light to abolish the Dark Mark stirring for its symbolism.
As it has been for the last few Potter movies, a few details could've been elaborated on to set up the final movie(s) better. Snape's past has never been detailed in the movies so it takes away from the "is he or isn't he?" question, especially the reason Harry has to suspect him.
This is a failing of the final cut for Order of Phoenix. The entirety of Snape's Worst Memory was shot, but Yates and his editor inexplicably chose to cut out Lily's part of the scene in post-production. That was the most unforgivable problem with OOTP, in my opinion.
Additionally, the explanation of the horcruxes was lacking. Sure, the audience understands what they are, but Harry has no clue how he'd go about finding them. The next movie will have to do some seriously heavy lifting. This lack of explanation also plays into why the final scene of the movie isn't as powerful as it should be. Furthermore, we never see the faculty or anyone besides the trio finding out about Snape's role in Dumbledore's death and the fate of the school isn't thrown into question like in the book. Nor do we see the public reaction to Dumbledore's death, something that could've been helped by the funeral scene.
They have the fake locket and know the real one's out there somewhere. The mechanics of what horcruxes are and what the purpose of them is have been laid out. That's enough to get them started. Harry didn't know a heck of a lot more at the going into DH on the page, either.
If there is a single failing of the movie, it's that the focus on the love stories, the relatively warm feel, and the lack of seeing Voldemort put the whole Voldemort-is-gaining-power-and-amassing-an-army-and-the-days-are-growing-darker vibe at bay. The last two felt like much more foreboding movies. It'll be a tough transition to the next movie when Voldemort is pretty much in full power and the heroes need to watch their every move. Actually, even though I didn't care much for the Order of the Phoenix movie, most of its strengths are missing here - notably how it portrayed the wizarding community as a whole instead of just a group of kids. None of the happenings of the outside world really reverberated throughout the school.
This is the biggest triumph of the movie, in my opinion. I don't want to watch three films of increasingly dreary and forboding such that there's nothing left. My biggest thematic problem with the last film was the lack of warmth that all of the book had. Hogwarts in this story is a protective coccoon where these kids get to experience their last bits of innocence. I'm grateful that Kloves and Yates embraced that and nurtured that instead of focusing in on the threats. We have two whole movies for that.
Originally Posted by drobbins /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I figured that bad things were happening to them, but was it slavery, work camps, brain washing, torture, execution or what? That is why that guy was disguised as a couch. That was pretty funny.
Remember back to GOF, the faux-Mad-Eye Moody explained the three Unforgivable Curses: The Imperius curse, which robs you of your free will (resulting in Manchurian Candidate spies at all levels of magical society). The Cruciatus Curse, which tortures you. And Avada Kedavra, the Killing Curse, demonstrated ably by Snape in this film. Those cover what you can expect from the Death Eaters out in the big dark world.
Until this movie, the whole story was about the battle and mysterious connection between Voldemort and Harry. This movie did not touch on that at all.
In my opinion, the movie went to great pains to highlight the parallels between Harry and Tom Riddle, to the point where the say the same dialog at times. And arguably, the entire film was about the battle between Harry and Voldemort, since finding Slughorn's memory armed Harry with the means to defeat Voldemort permenantly.
I figured that he was up to something, but with out him coming back to life, or some Star Wars "force afterlife" thing going on, I could not figure out how a man of his skill would serve the cause better off dead.
All I will say to this point is Dumbledore does not come back to life, but his death directly contributes to setting into motion the events that lead to the final confrontation between Harry and Voldemort. Dumbledore's death denies Voldemort something that could have tipped the balance in his favor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif

"Voldemort acts on this, realizing that the Chosen One was Harry Potter and goes off to kill him"

In the book, something I was hoping would be make it into the films,Voldemort isnt sure if the prophecy is about Harry or Neville Longbottom.


Since its being split into 2 parts, Im expecting the Deathly Hollows films to fill in some more of the blanks regarding Snape making everything clear for people who didnt read the books.
The connection between Harry and Nevel in regards to the prophecy should have been made clear to Harry at Dumbledore's office after the attack on the Ministry in OOTP. That scene should have been an angry, intense, uncomfortable ten-minute affair. It was shortened and neutered to several seconds in the film, the second most unforgivable failure re: OOTP after Snape's Worst Memory.
I also expect the DH films to fill in some of the blanks that were left out of the first six films. The sad thing is, five extra minutes in each film would have solved a lot of problems in the upcoming films.
Originally Posted by mattCR /img/forum/go_quote.gif

This film had some great moments. But the opening segment was cut up in such a way it felt as though it was vignettes of the book, and missed some of what I thought were the great connections. I did however feel like the acting, especially Rickman and others was truly top form, and helped really make this film far better then it could have been otherwise.


I also hate the color scheme, I feel as though it doesn't offer a bold enough difference between settings, as everything too easily blends together.
I agree with everything in your first paragraph. I understand your problems with the cinematography, even though I was okay with it. Originally, Bruno Delbonnel had shot the film in basically monocrome so that most scenes were either Black -> Blue -> White, or Black -> Brown -> White. Thankfully, Warner Bros overruled fairly early on in production. The rest of the shoot was more colorful than planned, and the color timing pushed the saturation greater. That being said, much of the film still has a predominantly brown or blue hue to it, depending on the scene. (Since the production and costume design were also based around this style choice: sets and costumes in the "brown" scenes are predominantly brown or off-brown, and sets and costumes in the "blue" scenes are predominately blue or off-blue.) I loved the camera work and the lighting, and made peace with the unconventional color choices.
 

Don Solosan

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Dave,

1. The Death Eaters hate Muggles, and they're expanding their attacks to people outside the wizarding world. This raises the stakes as it threatens to expose the wizarding world to the outside. Voldemort doesn't care because he wants to rule everything.

2. At the beginning of the movie they show a Diagon Alley shop blowing up, and then someone being led away with a bag over his head. I believe it was Ollivander's Wand Shop (character played by John Hurt in the first movie). This fact is important to the next book.

3. As far as I'm concerned, he is in the movie because he's orchestrating all the attacks you see the Death Eaters carrying out. It's his mark up in the sky, etc. What scarier? A bad guy you can see, or one who works through others? Also, it's not a simple "good vs. evil" plot. It's a "find the bad guy's weakness" plot. It may take its sweet, bloody time getting there, but it does get there. And the next book keys off that info.

4. I'm not going to get into this one, because it would give too much away. Let's just say that everything is more complex than it appears.
 

todd s

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I have not read the books and I went with someone who did. I enjoyed it more than she did because I didn't know what was left out. She was upset their wasn't more of the big battle at the end and that they left out so much about Snapes & Voldemorts past.
 

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I should add that I saw this in IMAX 3D in New York - unfortunately there is not very much point to it. It is only the first 20 minutes (I actually expected it to be the last 20 min like the last one). It ends when Harry turns up at the Weasley's for the first time. That was disappointing.



Anyone mind responding to my query regarding the Horcruxes - am I right in saying Tom Riddle's diary and the ring are Horcruxes themselves ?
 

Ray H

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Thanks, Adam, for the thoughtful replies.

I guess with the horcruxes, the movie Harry seems to be more in over his head than in the book, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The movies will just need to explain more the next go around. Specifically, I believe the books explained a few more details such as what sort of item Voldemort may choose for his horcruxes.

On the lack of forboding, I don't mind that the movie is lighter. It's just that it feels like a step back in terms of setting up Voldemort's rise in power. The film feels less dangerous despite opening with a terrorist attack. Again, with the exception of the beginning including the Slughorn scene, It's as though everybody's forgotten that Voldemort appeared at the Ministry of Magic a few months earlier. Maybe part of the problem is I haven't seen OOTP in two years, so whatever it accomplished wasn't fresh in my mind going in to this one.

And, yes, Simon, the ring and diary are two horcruxes.
 

todd s

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Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
This is a failing of the final cut for Order of Phoenix. The entirety of Snape's Worst Memory was shot, but Yates and his editor inexplicably chose to cut out Lily's part of the scene in post-production. That was the most unforgivable problem with OOTP, in my opinion.
What was cut? Can you describe the scene?

Thanks!
 

Chuck Mayer

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I agree with Adam. The scene would be literally about 15-30 seconds longer, but it's absolutely critical to both that scene and future character development. No doubt, they'll use it appropriately in DH, but OOTP should have had it as well.

todd, the scene includes Lily's reaction to what James is doing, and Snape's reaction to her. That's all.

It was a senseless decision.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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Originally Posted by Simon Massey

I should add that I saw this in IMAX 3D in New York - unfortunately there is not very much point to it. It is only the first 20 minutes (I actually expected it to be the last 20 min like the last one). It ends when Harry turns up at the Weasley's for the first time. That was disappointing.



Anyone mind responding to my query regarding the Horcruxes - am I right in saying Tom Riddle's diary and the ring are Horcruxes themselves ?
Good to know about the IMAX. I had planned on seeing it on Albany's IMAX-branded digital theatre but a contract agreement between Paramount and IMAX prevented it from debuting in IMAX outside NY, LA and Chicago until the end of the month. I was still planning on catching it in IMAX once it finally arrives, but now I might just save the $10.

As Ray said, the ring and Tom's diary were both Horcruxes. One of the few changes I'd make with the film is making more of a point to reintroduce the diary earlier in the picture. Harry and Ginny's storyline in the film gains a lot of its power from the fact that they are the only two people ever to have survived being possessed by Voldemort. It makes Ginny more of Harry's equal, and it explains why she is so wary of the Half-Blood Prince's textbook. When Harry stabbed the diary with the basilisk fang in Chamber of Secrets to save Ginny's life, he unknowingly destroyed that little slice of Voldemort's soul. Dumbledore's hand was likewise destroyed when he forced the slice of soul from the ring. The diary was transformed into a horcrux when Tom Riddle used his basilisk to murder Moaning Myrtle. The ring, his grandfather's, was turned into a horcrux when he murdered his father. That leaves five horcruxes: three created deliberately, one created accidentally and one created out of desperation.
Originally Posted by Ray H

Thanks, Adam, for the thoughtful replies.

I guess with the horcruxes, the movie Harry seems to be more in over his head than in the book, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The movies will just need to explain more the next go around. Specifically, I believe the books explained a few more details such as what sort of item Voldemort may choose for his horcruxes.
You're welcome, Ray! I love a good discussion about a film I'm passionate about. In this case, Harry seems more in over his head, but as the first half of Deathly Hallows illustrates, he was already in way over his head to begin with.
On the lack of forboding, I don't mind that the movie is lighter. It's just that it feels like a step back in terms of setting up Voldemort's rise in power. The film feels less dangerous despite opening with a terrorist attack. Again, with the exception of the beginning including the Slughorn scene, It's as though everybody's forgotten that Voldemort appeared at the Ministry of Magic a few months earlier. Maybe part of the problem is I haven't seen OOTP in two years, so whatever it accomplished wasn't fresh in my mind going in to this one.
You make a legitimate point, one I have a feeling the filmmakers struggled with as well; it just didn't bother me that much. Seeing the Death Eaters bounce off the shield around Hogwarts and the Weasley's delightfully unwieldly house on fire highlighted that the world is a darker place.
I think part of why it feels like a step back is that Dolores Umbridge made Hogwarts such a miserable place to be the last time around. Restoring Dumbledore's whimsical feel to the place made it feel warmer and safer even though a mortally injured Dumbledore firmly at the helm is far less safe than a healthy and robust Dumbledore seemingly driven into exile.

This gives me an opportunity to praise Michael Gambon's performance. When he took over for Richard Harris in the third movie, I felt much worse off for the trade; Harris nailed Dumbledore's kindness, strangeness, and seemingly unending wisdom. But partially because his performances have gotten more understated and whimsical and partially because Rowling's portrayal of Dumbledore get progressively closer to his take on the character over the course of the series, I think Gambon got the closer to the Dumbledore of the books in this film than any prior performance from either actor. In HBP, Dumbledore is very much the type of leader so powerful he never needs to raise his voice. Dumbledore is probably the most Machiavellian character in the entire series, but that's not how he wants to behave or be thought of as. A Machiavelli that wishes he were a John Locke, and Gambon's performance captures that internal struggle beautifully: a very old man who doesn't flinch at making sometimes brutally cruel decisions but thoroughly wishes he didn't have to.
 

JonZ

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While I dont think the first 3 films needed it, as said,10 - 15 minutes added to the running time would do ALOT of good with OOTP and HBP. The books had become alot more complex by then.I said that when OOTP came out as well. To me the movie flew by and I dont think the audience would have minded a bit added to the running time if it made a more satisfying film
The mystery of the HBP drives the book, but with the film, Harrys admiration for the Prince, and conflicts with Snape during the school year is a missed opportunity. IMHO it would have added even more weight to the points Adam (so thoughtfully) commented on.

I like OOTP, but I can understand why so many find it frustrating. The movie focuses around a prophecy, but the film doesnt explain WHY its so important.



Edited by JonZ - 7/17/2009 at 09:20 am GMT
 

mattCR

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Argh. My wife went to the night show last night, and commented at the scene where they raise there wands, a very large group in front of her all raised their lit cell phones. What a PITA that is. Your cell phones are not wands, and it's just annoying.
 

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