*** Official "EQUILIBRIUM" Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Chuck Mayer]

Actually, I like this more and more the more I remember it. I understand negative reviews, but not the vitriol. I have seen more worse films than better wrt Equilibrium.
From my review, just some notes on things that could have enhanced the film (SOME SPOILERS):
The music. Music was mentioned as a sense-crime, and I don't think the audience should have heard any until:
1) Preston went off the Librium
2) Full blown listening to Mozart
I believe Taye was supposed to be "feeling", based on his characterization and closeness with Father. He wasn't on the Librium at all...just faking it (and not so well).
The denouement could have been better.
But beyond that, this film is eminently watchable. I'd love to see it again. But I agree it won't be around in a week...but it will be pretty popular on DVD methinks.
Take care,
Chuck

 

[Quentin]

That's an interesting take on Taye, Chuck.

And, I believe that was Ludwig Von B. that we heard.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

It was Ludwig...my bad. I just screwed it up.

This film is really sticking with me. I mentioned in the 2002 Film List thread that I really expect this to be a cult film in a year or two. Buzz from film geeks is pretty high (perhaps not here at HTF), and I do think the DVD will create an audience. Not anything major, mind you, just a strong support over time for the film.

I stick by that Taye thing...he's too animated for it to not be intentional.

FWIW, I thought Ebert gave it a decent review.

And those action scenes are STUCK in my head.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[Michael Pakula]

Im thinking about taking a 2 hour trip to Buffalo next
week to check this out. I doubt we will get it here in canada now so I might aswell go check it out. It will also give me the oppurtunity to check out The Weight Of Water which was also not released here. Do you guys think it will
be showing next week? or should I rush down on Thursday?

-Mike

 

[David Rogers]

I knew fifteen minutes into the movie it wouldn't do well mainstream. When I got home, I checked through a few things and then scanned the reviews linked on Rotten Tomato. I found out I was unfortunately right.

Equilibrium is way too cerebral for the vast majority of the audience, and particularly for the critics. Critics tend to be, in my experience, either extremely mainstream or more than a little "arty". That rarely leaves room for SF, or allows the kind of person who will think and reflect upon a movie to fill the critic slot. While reading some of the comments directed at the film drove me to a literal gibbering rage Friday night, I also understand why they're saying such things. They have no choice; the material's beyond them.

Yes Equilibrium is very methodically paced. It is, however, superbly written and very well told. It draws from, but does not retell, classic Science Fiction stories such as 1984, Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451. The pacing and the SF setting are more than enough to doom this project, which is shameful for mainstream audience members and critics since they're closing themselves off from a seriously insightful story. Those who would most benefit from reflecting upon the story are those who are least likely to experience it.

I feel there's only one "fantastic" concept the audience had to accept for Equilibrium to work; that of the gun-katas. If you accept they genuinely created a new method of combat that works if you train in it exhaustively enough, there aren't any other leaps of conclusion I feel one must make. Use of drugs to sate the masses is not a stretch; populations throughout history have willingly sedated themselves on all sorts of chemicals and intoxicants. Think of how *prevalent* "Miller Time" and "Friday Night Drinking" jokes and routines are in current American society, and then try to argue with me we don't have large segments of our population so sedating themselves.

In Equilibrium, once a citizen takes that first dose of the sense killer, they'll be pliable and far easier to "control" until they stop taking it. And as we see most, if not the vast majority of, citizens in Equilibrium never generate the impulses that would fight past the drug's effects to stop taking it. They're fed the dogma of the government, which in this case is that base emotions (which are defined as nearly all possible human emotions) are going to destroy humanity. That they have been destroying humanity ,and that they will definitely do so if allowed to run uncheck.

The message is fascinating. These 'base emotions' are the reasons humans have ascended to where we are now. The urge to do something no one else has ever done before, because of pride or a sense of it being possible, due to competitive drive, or even out of revenge to scorn a naysayer or a rival .. .this is a fundamental aspect of being human. It's part of the "killer ap", I feel, that makes a human valuable, useful, and wonderful. Yet in Equilibrium, the government's chosen to forcibly suppress this fundamental element. I'd be very curious to see what research and growth are like in such a society, as my guess would be almost none.

There are style choices present in the movie. It has been told with the government taking the guise of a theocracy. The religion is the elimination of sense and feel, and the reason is to safeguard humanity. With this in mind, the use of the Cleric label becomes possible. I didn't mind the style choice, but I can easily see how many would. In fact, I believe the NYTimes review for Equilibrium made specific ridicule of the cleric title in the opening paragraph. As the elite of the anti-sense enforcement in Equilibrium, the cleric title is apt and very accurate.

I've already spent too much time, I think, on the story of the movie. Either you read the above and mostly nodded, or you read it and rolled your eyes. The former likely enjoyed the movie, while the later likely did not. But after the story, what we've really got left is Bale, Diggs, and the action. And there, at least (to use a phrase someone who hated the film might select), we have some wonderful material.

I really enjoyed the action. I've been trying to websearch Equilibrium, and have been having a hell of a time finding anything useful about it. Can anyone tell me the budget? It looks to have been a modest one, but I'm curious what it was. Despite not having blockbuster dollars, Equilibrium has done an amazing job with the action. Many films do action poorly, including MANY with huge sums to spend. Equilibrium didn't. The style is clear and enjoyable, and the only gratuitous action I spotted was the head-turn to the side for Diggs' character at the end of the movie (viewers know what I'm talking about; it was the only shot I cried foul on, as it was clearly excess and not story-important). I believed the antics were possible, and thus exciting to watch.

The opening scene was kinda nice, as setup and yet leaving quite a bit to the audience's imagination. We're clearly established the Clerics are as billed, yet we haven't "ruined" anything coming later. There are little flashes of the Clerics' capabilities here and there, but the first truly awesome evidence of the Clerics' skills comes when Preston (Bale) is confronted out in the Zone by the security team. There he takes out the entire team, something close to twenty heavily armed enforcement troopers, in less than ten seconds. You're left gaping, and if any in the audience doubted still, that was the last time. The contemplations later, of Preston going up against the government with the rebellion, are only really reasonable if you believe Preson could possibly succeed. The Zone incident addresses this, I feel. We had tastes before, now you've seen.

The climax of the final act, where Preston makes his run to take the government down, is quite satisfying. The old adage of "be careful what you wish for" came to mind as I enjoyed Preston going to work. That which created him will be undone by him, which is very satisfying and more than a touch routinely ironic. Bale vs Diggs was perfect, I felt; that was exactly what was wanted there. Leaving the final showdown, where we finally see Cleric vs Cleric combat. I really liked how they put it together.

Bale was an excellent casting choice, as was Diggs. I was also very pleased to see Bean as the first fallen Cleric we're shown. Bale has excellent presence on screen, and he used it to tremendous effect in Equilibrium, which is a quiet film. Such stories draw more heavily upon their actors to communicate via non-dialog, and to make minimal lines have great impact. Bale stepped up and made the movie work. Diggs was an excellent foil for him, and I really enjoyed what he brought to the chemistry of the scenes. Most of the second act is the swirling around one another of Bale and Diggs, and it was enjoyable to watch them very carefully clash.

Real shame most folks won't see Equilibrium. And that most who see it won't get it.

At least Matrix II & III are coming. Those films have a better chance to inject a few useful concepts into the mass market, where Equilibrium will never have a fair chance to do.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Dave,
Thanks for checking in.
Some thoughts...I was introduced to this film a while back by Nick Nunziata of CHUD fame (not personally, he had an article praising the film, and he's not given to that). But it was intriguing enough that I followed up on his recommendation and saw it opening day.
There is a nice board at www.chud.com where discussions are abound regarding this film. Kurt Wimmer directed (in Holland I believe), it completed shooting in December of 2000 (!), and it cost $20 M. Many of the actions scenes were done in one take?!?!?
Onto the film. I think most of us will see it. Just not in the theater. Dimension apparently HAD to release it in 2002 for some foreign rights reasons. The video will take off. I know the vitriol it's received in the press. It might lead many to think the film is much worse than even the awkward parts of it. But this film will find an audience, and a decent one at that. It just might not be for a few months.
I know I am shilling for the film (and folks here know I don't do that often), but I honestly believe EQ is this generations' Highlander (take that as you will), albeit better written and acted and with deeper meaning. It's by no means perfect, but it does what it does well, and it sticks with you. I haven't been able to get it out of my head since Friday, so I'll be seeing it again tomorrow or Wednesday. The action scenes AND the thematic elements are very engaging, and I'd love to read the script and backstory. Kurt Wimmer has actually dropped into the CHUD thread here and there to answer questions, and it's made me appreciate the film more (and his directorial skill AND look for his future projects).
Long story short, sonm of my filmgeek marks of pride is that I saw Army of Darkness in a theater and I saw Fight Club TWICE in a theater. I feel confident that I can add Equilibrium to that list. It's nice being at the ground floor of a cult film, and leading the charge.
Don't expect the sun and moon from the freshman effort, but you CAN expect a well-done film with action LIKE YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN. You can expect good performances, great direction, and a very interesting story. You have to dig a little, but the Cracker Jack prizes are worth it. Christian Bale really pulls off the character, and I feel comfortable raising my high 8/10 to a 9/10. But I'll give it another viewing before making that official.
It's a shame that Miramax/Dimension gave this film short shrift. But when the people start to see it...they are going to want more. Much more.
Take care,
Chuck

 

[David Rogers]

Thanks Chuck.
Can you pop a link to the CHUD discussion. I've never been a CHUDer because their style early in their lifecycle turned me off. Yet they're still here and that makes them part of movies online! So HABO like the commericals say in front of the films now?
Especially if Wimmer has chimed in. That was one of the *best* parts of watching Babylon 5, was the creator and writer (JMS) frequented the usenet discussions and a few other places, and was okay with his comments being assembled and maintained related to the episodes. To see it happen on a film I enjoyed so much would be aces.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Dave,
I am not saying it's not a mess, but I joined just so I could talk about the film. It's a step up from AICN, so...Page 10
It's 700 posts long, and I forget where Kurt has input. There are some nice pics in it, and a link to an interview with the director.
Take care,
Chuck

 

[Scott Weinberg]

Looking forward to this one. I saw Below in the theaters and I WILL see Equilibrium on the big screen as well. Nice to see that this flick is A) inciting some discussion, and B) finding a few supporters.
And Chuck: I liked what you said about 'leading a charge' for a movie you really like. I feel that way quite often, most recently with stuff like Frailty, The Good Girl, and Dog Soldiers. (Hey, us Yanks just got the flick!)
Anyway, I better find some time to see this movie this week or I may have no shot at all. Give Dimension at least a little credit for even releasing this movie at ALL at this time of year. Flicks like Below and Equilibrium eventually make their money back (and then some) via home video, cable, etc. - so any theatrical release at all could be considered a needless gesture.
Although the folks at Dimension seem a bit clueless on how to handle their product, I'm grateful that they're at least producing some quality genre stuff!

 

[Scott Weinberg]

Oh yeah:
Don't hate him, but my compatriot Walter Chaw thrashed the movie without mercy:
http://www.filmfreakcentral.net/scre...quilibrium.htm
(He calls it the funniest American comedy since Graffiti Bridge. Yowch!)
It's not too often that I concur with Walt's opinions, but damn that guy can string together a sentence!

 

[Alex Spindler]

I must agree with Chuck and David. This one quite nearly slipped past me, but I am so glad I saw it on screen.

I can say that this will likely be one of those small films that we'll be championing for some time to come.

Scott, I highly encourage you to check it out before it evaporates. It's such a shame that it's being swept under the carpet.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Scott,
I've missed you around here. Good to see you back. I will say that I often have similar tastes to you (I was a big fan of Frailty when I finally saw it), and I expect you will really, REALLY dig this film. But I'll be ready to eat my words
The trick is just being a moviegoer (which some critics can do, some can't)...just give in to the premise a bit. The film will do the rest.
Take care,
Chuck

 

[Luis S]

Call me crazy guys,but you know what I enjoyed it more than the Matrix. Nuts I know,but something about it just sticks better. Cant explain it,cant even begin to try. One thing I can say though,Bale is more convincing physicaly than Keanu. That did help make my decision I must admit. He just looks so badass and Keanu is kinda...well, goofy. And I prefer the fighting in equilibrium,it has a point to it.It leads to a victor,not just a bunch of hand slapping/blocking.You can see Bale closing the fight,if you understand what I mean.Beautiful movie,I can only imagine what they couldve done with a bigger budget.Then again,maybe thats why it came out so good?
Luis S

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Luis,
I can't say that I don't agree with you. I do. I enjoyed this film more than The Matrix, and I am not ashamed to say it
Considering the budget, the visuals are even more mind-blowing. Long story short, Joel Silver and the Brothers W have THEIR WORK CUT OUT to impress me this summer and fall. I hope they do it.
But more than that, I hope someone gives Kurt Wimmer a $100M budget.
Anyways, I snuck out of work for a bit to catch a second screening. I'll stay late to make it up, but I wanted to donate funds to this film. I'll upgrade my review score slightly. I gave it an 8/10, but I feel comfortable making it a 9/10. With some minor alterati0ons, this could have been a 10 film, but some hokey bits here and there, as well as the opening narration, keep it from there.
Much props to Bale. MUCH props to Bale. He sells the dramatic undertones and the action perfectly. Why isn't this guy s star yet? Rumor was, they planned on using THIS film to sell Bale to W. Petersen as Batman. It would have worked until that project died.
Anyways, the action holds up pretty well on the second viewing. It doesn't completely dazzle again, because you are expecting it. What does dazzle are some great character moments by Bale learning to cope with his emotions. The story gained quite a bit on a subsequent viewing.
This is a special movie, and will make my Top Ten of the year.
Take care,
Chuck
P.S. That said, I can understand the savaging. The surface of the film could be construed as sci-fi rot, with mindless action. It's anything but to me. That interpretation is there, however. Too bad for them.

 

[Luis S]

Thanks Chuck! Glad someone out there feels the same as I do about this film! I was expecting to get flamed to hell for saying its better than the Matrix,nice to see I havent yet But yea imagine what it could have been with a bigger budget and more studio support And Chuck I came out thinking the same thing,the Matrix sequels have quite the job on their hands to impress me. Theyll be great,no doubt about it,but after seeing Bale and gun-kata?Well neo and the gang just dont seem so tough.Another thing I was thinking.In the Matrix the romance thing felt awkward,kinda out of place.In Equilibrium,you see he had a love,lost her,and is reminded of that loss by the woman he meets.Which then brings him to full-on asswhuppin mode!A much more effective love angle.I cant stand when movies feel they have to have a romance in it,especialy an action movie! And damnit that gun-kata is just so much cooler than wire-fu!
Luis S

 

[Chuck Mayer]

One solid reason Equilibrium feels stronger to me is that the fight scenes are tactile. I really like The Matrix. I didn't love it, but completely understand why so many do. My preference of Equilibrium does not mean I think it's better...just that I enjoy it more. It's better TO ME. Clearly, I am in the minority. But maybe not for long, once more folks see the film.

Anyways, Neo is a god-awful hacker. That's his skill. He's the One. Preston is not. His fights do NOT exist in cyberspace, and his skills were NOT downloaded. They were learned. He is the best, because that is how he trained. As the film progresses, he becomes more morally centered, and his character becomes much more sympathetic.

It helps that Christian Bale is a superior actor than Keanu. Bale carries the film almost alone...Reeves had a LOT of help.

Take care,
Chuck

 

[David Rogers]

)When Bale watched Watson die, and stumbled outside and collasped in a boil over of previously suppressed grief ...


Powerful stuff. Tremendous.

(still going through that link Chuck, thanks for it)

ps: there, though it's a discussion thread!!!!!

 

[Scott Weinberg]

D'oh! Spoiler! Argh!

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Weinberg,
STAY OUT until you've seen the film. You know that!
Maybe you'll hate it Maybe there was something in the popcorn at the only "no expense spared" critic's screening Dimension had
Take care,
Chuck

 

[Luis S]

Chuck my man you and I are definitely on the same page Tactile was exactly the word I was looking for.I don't care for many fight scenes these days cause they just seem like a dance.Realy just going from one move to the next trying to look pretty.This affects many films these days even Star Wars! Best Ive seen this year,period.Damn what any critic says God I hope this gets the attention it deserves on DVD!
Luis S