*** Official Discussion Thread - "1776" - 12 to 5 column at DVDAngle.com -

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Moe Dickstein, Jun 23, 2002.

  1. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    From T R Wilkinson -
    This is the official discussion thread for this episode of the 12 to 5 colummn at HTF Affiliate site www.DVDAngle.com
    Here's the link to the column - http://www.dvdangle.com/articles/12_to_5/index.html
    In general, the column discusses differences between Laserdisc and DVD releases of films. This time the column concerns "1776" - discussing the three LD editions and new DVD release, and the differences between the three edits of the films in COMPLETE detail.
    The purpose of this thread is to discuss this (and previous) columns, and to suggest ideas for future ones - I plan to incorporate these discussions into the column, so if your idea for a column is used, you will be credited!
    I hope you all enjoy this column and I look forward to reading and responding to your thoughts!
    - T R Wilkinson
     
  2. BarryR

    BarryR Supporting Actor

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    Mind bogglingly fascinating! I'm rather neutral about the latest changes, though I agree the deleted scenes certainly should have been added to the DVD as the final dot on the document. [​IMG] I saw 1776 during its original run at Radio City, and it made a very memorable impression. The audience was very responsive and I still recall the tension of the final scenes keeping the huge theater quiet! Great job explaining the different versions; didn't realize how subtle some of the changes are, such as the musical underscoring.
     
  3. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Screenwriter
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    Really interesting. I love comparisons of that kind of stuff. You might want to also do an article about the difference between Disney LD's and DVD's besides FANTASIA. There are lots.
     
  4. Damin J Toell

    Damin J Toell Producer

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  5. Peter Apruzzese

    Peter Apruzzese Producer

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    Great article! Thank you for doing the comparisons of the different cuts - it's as good as anything in "Video Watchdog" magazine.
     
  6. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    Thank you for the complements - they really mean a lot.

    Brian - hope you find my debut column to your liking.

    I am looking to do the next column on Peter Bogdanovich's Texasville - The new DVD will not feature his preferred director's cut, which was released to laserdisc. You can expect a similar comparison of the two cuts, and since the changes are less radical, more of a discussion of the thematic ramfications of the edits.

    But by all means, keep the ideas coming!

    T R Wilkinson
     
  7. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Screenwriter
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    I did indeed. That's why I mentioned doing other LD's besides FANTASIA. I know for a fact that the ALICE IN WONDERLAND and SALUDOS AMIGOS/THREE CABELLEROS LD's are different than the eventual DVD releases.
     
  8. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Cinematographer

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    With all of the changes that Peter Hunt has now made, one wonders why I am given a special thanks on the back of the new DVD since he has (and did NOT have ten years ago) so many complaints about my restoration. Taking out scoring where the film so badly needs it is appalling.
    Taking out the Lees reprise and the lamplighter scene (scenes that Hunt was thrilled that I found) make no sense.
    Announcing that the fire wagon scene would be taken out but now finding that it is back in just shows that someone does not know their own mind.
     
  9. John_Berger

    John_Berger Cinematographer

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    Glad to see that you're not upset or holding grudges, Joe.
    [​IMG]
    (I still hold the laserdisc to be the best version, FWIW.)
     
  10. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    Brian - How do those Disney DVDs differ? I know the LDs were part of the Archive Box series (those white gigantic boxes) of which I personally only have Tron.

    Joe - In speaking with Peter Hunt, one of the reasons for not reinstating the lamplighter and Franklin in the Market was the difficulty in getting around the dissolve that was inserted for the theatrical cut. You inserted a shot of the window to cover this, but apparantly Hunt did not want to do this and instead left the bit out.

    As to Lees, he tells me that people are sick of him coming back at this point, and the drive is to get to the first day in congress as fast as possible.

    There was never any talk of not including Firewagon,

    And the underscoring were elsments that he was unhappy with from day one, being the work of Warner's crony Ray Heindorf, he remarks that they sound like "fake Korngold" and particularly ruin the final scene with John and Abagail.

    John - knowing the situation, I would probably hold a grudge too if I were Joe!

    Have you seen the new DVD yet, before saying you think the LD the best version? Personally, on the first viewing the changes were a lot to take in, but now I think that due to the quality and scoring changes, the DVD version holds a slight edge, but I would never part with the LD for the extra material it contains.

    - T R Wilkinson
     
  11. John_Berger

    John_Berger Cinematographer

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  12. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Screenwriter
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    Moe,
    Here are the differences between the LD and DVD for ALICE IN WONDERLAND.
    The Archive Collection CAV LD set contains:
    • "One Hour in Wonderland" - Walt Disney's first ever television show - A one hour special that aired chrismas day, 1950, promoting Alice in Wonderland
    • Complete Storyboards for two unproduced feature length versions of Alice in Wonderland from 1939 (illustrated by David Hall) and 1943.
    • "Operation Wonderland" (1951) - A short promotional film on the making of Alice in Wonderland.
    • Archival artwork including conceptual drawings, character design and preliminary concepts.
    • 1951 Radio broadcast with Walt Disney and Kathryn Beaumont (voice of Alice).
    • Demos of deleted songs and songs that were used.
    • Original "Alice" illustrations by Sir John Tenniel.
    • Rarely seen 1923 silent short, Alice in Wonderland, produced by Walt Disney.
    • Original publicity material including posters, lobby cards and press book.
    The DVD contains:
    • Theatrical trailer(s)
    • Bonus: Adventures in Wonderland (Game?)
    • The Unbirthday Song and All in the Golden Afternoon Sing-Along
    • "Operation Wonderland" (the making of the movie) featurette
    • Interactive Read-Along
    • Interactive Trivia Game
    A fairly big difference, with most of the Special Features being changed to more "child-consumer-friendly" material. Nothing wrong with games. I mean it is a kid's movie. Still, I wish they'd also included the other material on a separate disc, since it was ready to go.
    I'll have to do some research on the other films.
     
  13. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    Brian - I would imagine that now that Disney is doing things like the "Vault Disney" and those tin boxes, that we will at some point see a reissue of Alice that has all those features, and probably more.

    The Archive series are really the precursors to what they are doing now with Snow White etc, and Tron is a good example of how they can port over an Archive release.

    lets keep our fingers crossed

    -T R Wilkinson
     
  14. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Screenwriter
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    I hope so, Moe. I've really enjoyed the "Walt Disney Treasures" collections. I haven't seen any of the "Vault Disney" ones yet, but I tend to think they're going to stick with live-action output for those releases. Since ALICE wasn't a huge success for Disney, I don't know that it'll ever get the deluxe treatment, ala the "Platinum" releases. One can only hope. Even the lesser releases from Walt's lifetime are miles ahead of their current product in terms of quality.
     
  15. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    Now that the disc is out I am bumping this up top so we can have a place to discuss it, as well as a place for people to discuss the article in relation to the film

    I'd like to know if people are finding the article useful if they are trying to compare the versions, and any ideas for improvements that may be had.

    Hope those of you that find the disc enjoy it - and the good news is, that if the disc is selling out everywhere then that means that the demand is higher than expected and that is ALWAYS a good thing!

    -T R Wilkinson
     
  16. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Screenwriter
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    Unfortunately, I think the reason the disc is selling out everywhere is that stores only ordered a few copies of the film in the first place. At least there seems to be some demand for it. Good news for Musical lovers.
     
  17. BarryR

    BarryR Supporting Actor

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    I'm in the midst of watching the DVD now; I'm seeing it now for the second time with the commentary track. A glorious way to segue into the 4th! I only wish the DVD was a fullout SE edition with tons of extras a la the Vault Disney sets. I'm surprised this DVD didn't have a special documentary added, but at least we have a pristine looking print and widescreen presentation. Am I happy? Certain--lee! [​IMG]
     
  18. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    well i wouldnt expect them to order lots - but if they sell out what they get right away, theres no better sign in my book

    - T R Wilkinson
     
  19. Greg_M

    Greg_M Screenwriter

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    The "1776" disc looks pretty good.

    Compared to the laserdisc, the color seems a little faded and the flesh tones seem a bit too orange. The picture is also a bit dark, but on the whole it is quite nice looking - especially in anamorphic.
     
  20. Eric Paddon

    Eric Paddon Screenwriter

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    Celebrating the 4th now with the only version of this movie I will ever own or watch.
     

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