***Official Digital Video Essentials Discussion Thread*** (1 Viewer)

[BRADH]

AVIA matches VE, DD Explore your world, and Sound & Vision all match, so this means if the new DVE is right then all of these disc are wrong, I have a Proceed AVPII and the sub level in it doesnt match. I have always used AVIA or VE to set up the sub.

Brad

 

[GregBoehme]

There are DTS tones but they are equally as wrong as the DD ones.. I specifically bought DVE for the DTS setup. What I ended up doing was calibrating DD with AVIA then checking the 'offset' of the LFE with DVE and calibrated DTS with the same 'offset'.
I don't think there's any way DVE is 'right'. You just know that the LFE isn't supposed to be that low just by listening. I hope they correct this problem.

Greg

 

[Chris Will]

I did some test listening this weekend. I changed my LFE setting to match the DVE value. Yes it is lower but it doesn't sound horrible, it is just not what we are use too. My question is: What if Joe Kane says DVE is correct and VE was not? He is testing against pro calibration disc at Dolby Labs and THX. If it is correct then we have been listening to the wrong wetting for 7 years and that is why the new setting sounds so low. It would also mean that those other calibration disc are wrong to (Avia, S&V, etc.) which seems unlikely. Maybe Dolby changed something about the LFE channel in the last 7 years? If it is discovered to be correct are you going to change your setting? I'm not sure what I'll do, it doesn't sound bad but it also doesn't have that extra kick. I'm still hopping that something is wrong and the fix it. Just some food for thought.

 

[Thomas Smailus]

The various discs were probably made based on the specs or signals provided by the standards organizations (Dolby or DTS) - so if there was a problem with the Dolby supplied data in 1996-97, then everyone would have had it wrong then. (as I'd expect, since I get the feeling all those old discs result in the same settings). Again, now Dolby could have gotten it wrong - OR - the DVE disk is wrong. We only have this one new product to test.

Which is right and which is wrong? At this point we can say the sound different. Dolby Labs sets the standard for their format and whatever that standard is - thats what is right, regardless of whether it sounds right. Maybe the changed something over the years - not likely, though.

Odds are that there is something wrong with the process of the DVE production. Its already been verified that the signal they produced on the master is what gets onto the product disks - so its just an issue of is the master right or not. The problem is - if they get the LFE wrong - should they go back and check everything else with a fine-toothed-comb? I mean , if their quality control is such that they let this thing into production with such an obvious flaw - can we trust much of the rest to be correct? If its not the DVE folks, but Dolby that screwed up... then a lot of other products could be suspect as well.

 

[Brian L]

If its not the DVE folks, but Dolby that screwed up... then a lot of other products could be suspect as well.

FWIW, this is the first disc that I own that is drastically different from the others.

While no two discs seem to agree completely (nor do they agree with the internal test tones, which Dolby says we should be using), it is normally the result of a deliberate decision to record at something other than -20 dbFs, or differences in the frequencies of the tones, which will behave and measure differently in a real room.

In fact, I find that the main channel tones in DVE measure about 3 dB lower than VE. That is probably due to the make up of the tones. The sub channel on the other hand is a completely different kettle of fish.

I patiently await the final response from JKP.

BGL

 

[KenRen]

All,

As far as the free disk offered with the DVE from Kane Productions, is there one that is better than the others? I am not familiar with any of them.

Which disk should I pick?

Thanks,
KenRen

 

[Bob_Hitson]

Has there been any further update from Joe Kane regarding the LFE level on DVE?

 

[Keith M.]

KenRen:

I wouldnt bother w/ DVE, many are having issues w/ LFE levels and the menu navigation is awful.

I own VE, AVIA, and DVE and still faithfully only use AVIA...

 

[LawrenceK]

I am interested in purchasing DVE for the DTS tones and rear center speaker tones, but I am worried about all these problems people are having with the LFE channel. Are there any other good calibration discs with DTS tones (I suspect that for some reason my channel levels are incorrectly matched when I play DTS, and I want to confirm this, and calibrate the channels), and tones for center surround speakers?

 

[John.Meer]

DVE is perfectly OK for balancing your surrounds, the only question to date has to do with the LFE channel tones. Frankly I would consider the jury still out on this.
DVE correctly identified a bass management software error on my preamp in the “6” channel. The initial response from the preamp manufacturer was that all the surround channel decoding has been thoroughly validated by Dolby Labs and THX. Well, it turns out that it wasn't and it isn't, so I would not rush to condemn the LFE levels on DVE. There is not much consumer test material out there to verify bass management operation. DVE does do this correctly.

On the other hand, much of the hand-wringing over the LFE tones is somewhat meaningless in that using a (typical, i.e. RS) SPL meter to set the level is pretty dubious. Given the measurement problem plus room modes, I imagine it is more useful to use whatever LFE tone floats your boat (source material or hardware) to get in the ballpark, and then adjust by ear. Following various threads on all these forums on the issue of setting LFE, they almost invariably finish with the last step being “adjust to taste”.

As far as DVE navigation is concerned, it is not anywhere as bad as some have characterized it to be. I think navigating menus on any DVD is like running a program on a 386 when you really need a Pentium. The lag in the interface makes the whole thing painful. A disk that just started up in movie style chapter menu would be ideal, at least in my opinion…

 

[robert.cohen]

Hmm, I guess we're all still waiting for a conclusive response from JKP; I know I am. However, being rather new to this hobby I was wondering whether someone could clarify a point for me. One or two posts in this thread mentioned 3db as the amount that the RS SPL meter is off by. However, the SVS web site:

www dot svsubwoofers dot com/faq_rscomp.htm

lists the difference as 1.5dB for the 75Hz point (at least that's what I infer from the chart). Could someone please clarify.

Thanks,
Robert

 

[Shanil]

Here is something I found on the DVE site.

http://www.videoessentials.com/DVEQ&A.htm

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Is the DTS calibration track correct on this disc, or does it have questionable properties as well?

Is the DTS-ES calibration track encoded as DTS-ES Discrete?

Dan

 

[Chris Will]

I'm sorry, I lost track of this thread. This is the last e-mail I received from JKP:

22 October

Chris,

This has been an interesting challenge. It wasn't easy as we were
finding many more combinations of output levels than you reported.
Looking at the source tape, prior to Dolby Digital encoding all the way
to the output of the Dolby Digital decoder, the pink noise audio levels
on DVE are correct. We did find that the LFE on Video Essentials is
about 2 dB low in level.

We could find larger differences once we put those signals through some
consumer audio gear, just as you reported. That's another issue and is
already known by several audio professionals we contacted.

For the time being we have verification from engineers at Dolby Labs
that we got it right in the D-Theater tape and DVD of DVE.

We'll write this up and provide more details in the general Q&A on the
DVE web site.

Thanks for reporting your concern.

Joe Kane

I not sure what to do. When I lower my setting to the right volume it sounds a little too low from my listening position. It could be that I'm just not use to it yet. On the other hand when I leave it unchanged I have started to notice that on some newer movies (Terminator 3 most recently) the LFE seems too loud. There are some quiet scenes in T3 where the score is playing and there is just too much bass in the score. The score wasn't mixed to sound like rap music. I've noticed this in a few movies where quieter scenes have some un natural sound LFE in the background. T3 did not have that rumble of bass in quiet scenes in the theater so maybe the new setting is actually closer to being correct. It all comes down to what you personally think sounds better. I'm still undecided. I do not regret buying DVE, it is a great tool.

 

[Piers C]

I've been following the discussion and I'm still wondering how DVE compares with other discs like AVIA and Sound & Vison Home Theater Tune-Up (2001)?

I have the S&V. Is there a strong argument to purchase DVE?

Sorry if this is considered way off thread.

-thanks

 

[JeanSSullivan]

Chris Will,

I saw T3 at 2 different theater last summer and the bass from the LFE was wayyyyyyy higher than any other movie i've ever seen. This is perfectly reflected on the dvd. I think it's intended to be that way...

 

[Jason GT]

New question - it's technical and not so much about the software so if there's a better place for this post please let me know.

I've got a pretty cheap DVD player (Toshiba SD 2800, nonprogressive). It's hooked up to a Samsugn DLP Tv using AR component cables.

The player appears to fail the S-vid/True component test; anyways, for the Snell & Wilcox Test patterns, moire is very visible in the moving circle.

Is this normal, or is this a sign of a player that is somewhat substandard?

Furthermore, how valid is DVE for calibration thru DVI?

Thanks.

 

[Thomas Smailus]

If, as they indicated, Video Essentials was incorrect in its signal, and thats what you used, then you've been listening to the LFE at the wrong levels and are just used to that level.

In any case, its a tug of war between what the user 'likes the sound to be like' and what the studio 'mixed the sound to sound like'.

You can use a theater experience as a reference, but there is no guarantee they had thier stuff set up right at the theater.

I think, like with all such things, use the DVE disc to get you into the ballpark - it should get you and your equipment to about where its right, according to the Dolby or DTS standards folks. From there, you tweek to have what YOU like to listen to and watch in YOUR environment, sound and look like YOU like to have it.

 

[Dave H]

I think I will just stick with Avia.

 

[John.Meer]

From a previous post (121) it looks like Avia is wrong since it agrees with the original VE.