***Official Blu-Ray Discussion Thread*** (1 Viewer)

[DaveGTP]

EGM's E3 wrapup report listed 20% of US households have a PS2. Now, that doesn't mean the PS3 will hold that (I hope not, being #1 for too long makes companies cocky), but still, I really feel it will make all the difference.

 

[Richard Paul]

I predict that the Blu-ray Founders will choose MPEG-4 AVC as the advanced codec for pre-recorded Blu-ray. One reason is that the Japanese like international standards. Another reason is that Sony's PSP will use MPEG-4 AVC and Sony will most likely promote its use in Blu-ray. I also predict that though Sony will think about the PS3 using Blu-ray that they will end up having to continue to use DVD for cost reasons.

Blu-ray and HD-DVD won't co-exist since they both are aimed at the same market. If the Blu-ray Founders include MPEG-4 AVC in pre-recorded Blu-ray they will most likely win over HD-DVD. Blu-ray also has an advantage since the major manafacturers will make it, while the only well known manafacturer that will make HD-DVD is Toshiba.

 

[Scott L]

^^^That would be great, and Microsoft will still have it's share since they helped create mpeg-4

 

[Richard Paul]

A great article that shows how Blu-ray is and will be progressing can be found here. The article covers the August 3rd Blu-ray seminar and is translated by babelfish. The article includes a diagram of the the currently included audio and video codecs . It also includes a diagram showing how Blu-ray will progress. The diagram shows that BD-ROM's audio/video codecs will be decided in September, but BD-ROM's standard will not be completed until some point in 2005. Another diagram shows that BD-ROM will have a maximum data rate of 54 Mbps for audio and video.
This article indicates that the Blu-ray Association (BDA) are heavily in favor of adding an advanced video codec. And that video codec is MPEG-4 FRExt, which is also referred to as MPEG-4 AVC High Profile. This new codec is also discussed here and it sounds as though it is greatly enhanced over AVC. In a subjective test MPEG-2 at 24 Mbps was outperformed by FRExt at 8 Mbps for CGI/animation, 12 Mbps for non-grainy movies, and 16 Mbps for very grainy movies. It sounds as though these tests were done with a constant bit rate. Since actual video material will be encoded at a variable bit rate I would guess that the majority of movies could be encoded at an average bit rate of 10-12 Mbps, while looking better than MPEG-2 at 24 Mbps.

 

[Sean Moon]

With the announcement that the next Playstation will feature Blu-Ray, I am curious as to how this affects other studios embracing it.

 

[Richard Paul]

Personally I was surprised by Sony's announcement that the PS3 would be able to play pre-recorded Blu-ray discs. It will definitely help Blu-ray in terms of the number of units sold. Some PS3 owners with HDTVs could begin buying Blu-ray discs immediately, while other PS3 owners without HDTVs would have a potential HDTV source whenever they upgrade their television. Though it will definitely help the format I believe that studios will consider it only somewhat important.

Studios will care most about the type of encryption used. Blu-ray will use 128-bit AES which is 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 times harder to break than the encryption used with DVD. As such the encryption would never be broken by brute strength, but instead if ever broken would probably be done by bad implementation on a player. To prevent even that the decoding keys can be revoked for individual players. Also bit by bit copying is made extremely difficult by having disc numbers stamped into the inner metal disc of every Blu-ray disc (including re-writable). It is the encryption more than anything else that the studios will be concerned with. Currently the DVD Forum has not yet chosen an encryption method for HD-DVD, but it will most likely pick one that is at least equal to Blu-ray's. Of course all this encryption won't prevent professional pirates from simply recording a television screen, but instead is mainly made to prevent consumers from making copies to give to friends and family.

 

[JohnnyG]

Personally I was surprised by Sony's announcement that the PS3 would be able to play pre-recorded Blu-ray discs. It will definitely help Blu-ray in terms of the number of units sold.

I guess I'll go looking, but was this an official Sony annoucement? Is the BD-ROM spec even going to be finalized in time?

A remember when the announcement was made that the PS2 would play DVDs right out of the box. Speculation was that it would put an end to stand-alone DVD player sales. In the end, it had next to zero impact.

 

[Richard Paul]

Technically the BD-ROM specifications will not be entirely completed until around Spring of next year. This is mainly so the Java/software implementation can be finalized. The physical specification for BD-ROM is already completed and the video and audio codecs will be decided in September. This diagram shows what is completed and what has not been completed for Blu-ray. There hoping to complete version 0.9 of Blu-ray by December and at the same time make a completion date for version 1.0 of Blu-ray. After they have picked the final audio and video codecs for Blu-ray they can start making the factories to build all the parts for the Blu-ray players. It will take them around a year to actually start making the parts at which time they can combine them with the completed software. The Blu-ray Association is officially planning to release the first Blu-ray players next fall.
The announcement that the PS3 would use Blu-ray was made by Sony and can be confirmed at these sites (1, 2, 3). The PS3 will not be sold until the Spring of 2006, which should be several months after the first Blu-ray drives have already been released.
The PS2 is far more used for DVD playback than the X-box and for some people remains there only DVD player. The PS3 will help sell Blu-ray, but long term it will be the format itself which will have to sell.

 

[Richard Paul]

Japan Today just broke the news that Twentieth Century Fox will adopt the Blu-ray standard. If this is true I believe there may not even be a format war.
Also some interesting news about the HD-DVD rewritable specs is that it won't support dual layer writing. As such HD-DVD rewritable will be limited to 20 Gigabytes compared to Blu-ray rewritable's 54 Gigabyte capacity.

 

[EricRWem]

This past month has seen much good news in favor Blu-Ray. Very nice momentum going right now, but then again...Beta had some nice times going for it, too. We're still way too early in this ballgame, but they've got a nice headstart right now...

 

[JohnnyG]

The Fox 'rumour' doesn't mean that they will ONLY support Blu-Ray. You must always be mindful of 'spin'!

 

[EricRWem]

Always.

 

[Tim Hoover]

There has been no such announcement that Fox is adopting the Blu-Ray standard. I received the following from Video Business, which merely states that Fox has joined the Blu-Ray board of directors. Please carefully read the final sentence...

Fox joins Blu-ray board of directors. Twentieth Century Fox is expected to announce Monday that it has joined the board of directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association, a group promoting one of two competing hardware standards for the high-definition DVD. The involvement of Fox gives Blu-ray its only major studio presence outside of Sony Pictures, whose parent company developed the format. Fox officials stressed over the weekend, however, that the move does not represent an endorsement of Blu-ray or a commitment to release titles in the format.

 

[Scott L]

Didn't see this posted but Dolby Digital and DTS both have announced their lossless multichannel formats:
Dolby Digital Plus
DTS++
I see 192/24 for stereo on the Dolby press release while only 96/24 for DTS, however I see 7.1 mentioned on the DTS release. Current decoders will work fine for both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray because DD5.1 and DTS are mandated on each.
Lengthy article here about the two and PCM as well. Use www.bugmenot.com to log in.

 

[EricRWem]

 

[JohnnyG]

I can hear it now..."those Dolby guys called theirs 'plus'...let's do 'em one better and call ours PLUS PLUS!"

 

[ryanBsmith]

Here's some news I found today concerning the competing formats.
Hollywood Steps Into Video Format Fight
Three top Hollywood studios are throwing their considerable weight behind one of two competing formats for the next generation of DVDs, citing in part the need to stem piracy.
Paramount Home Entertainment, Universal Pictures and Warner Bros., which includes New Line Cinema and HBO, said Monday that they would start releasing films in the HD-DVD format in time for the holidays next year.
Read the complete story at the following link:
hxxp://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=528&e=1&u=/ap/20041129/ap_on_hi_te/dvd_alternatives
(Replace 'hxxp' with 'http.' I'm a new member and cannot post linked URLs yet, so I'm sorry about that.)

 

[EricRWem]

All I can say is this: At this rate, I'm coming nowhere near this market until probably at least 2007. This is looking like it's going to make VHS vs. Beta look like Sesame Street in comparision.