*** Official ALIEN VS. PREDATOR Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[DavidKelley]

Well im no die hard nor a professional critic but the film was my favorite type fast paced action but it should have been longer.
I do agree that the could have used a more refined plot. But you have to remember this was written from a comic book series. So not everything is spelled out as in a novel based movie.
As for Paul Anderson as a director he's not bad but they could have given it to a director with a better resume.

 

[Tim Glover]

Good point Ben about the disclaimer in most of the reviews. I hadn't really thought about it that way but I suppose that it's true. I myself rated this film more on my lack of expectations and wanting to like it rather than what was actually happening on screen.

That said, the good stuff that was there was good stuff or I wouldn't have liked it at all. And as much as we try and avoid it, it's nearly impossible to leave out those intangibles like expectations, fans of the series, reviews, etc... all these things do affect me in some way on the first viewing. Normally the second viewing (especially a highly anticipated film) I can really enjoy the true merits of the film.

 

[MickeS]

This movie is easily nitpicked to death. There are many things said that are factually incorrect, scientifically. Those are valid (if to me uninteresting) points. As long as what they say in the movie is consistent within the movie itself, that's good enough for me. I believe it was.

 

[Matt Leigh]

I Saw AVP on Saturday night. It IS pointless to review AVP in the same light as Alien and Aliens. Those 2 movies are as good as movies can possibly get and they are unlikely ever going to be bested by anything let alone AVP. At the best we can hope for we'll get films of equal value.

I was really impressed that Anderson was able to pull the movie off as well as he did. I was really involved in much of the film and a lot of it managed to pull out a decent level of tension. Yes the story was contrived and yes the entire concept of Aliens and Predators together battling it out under the ice in a pyramid is far fetched but to that end I found myself sucked in and enjoying it none the less.

There is bad dialouge, there are poor performances, there are some cheap effects (though never having to do with the creatures) but I can't complain as the film is far more solid than I ever expected. If there was one flaw I'd say that Paul Anderson was in too much of a hurry to get to stuff we expected to see without too much of a build up. I don't think the life cycle of the Aliens were sped up, I just think that it is a piss poor edit that was meant to imply that time had elapsed.

There are loads of homage shots in the movie that reference the previous Predator and Alien films. I can't see how anyone couldn't be impressed with the shot in the flashback where the Predators and their ships were atop the pyramids or the shot of the Alien crouched within the lightbeam cast from the ceiling.

I'm really looking forward to the DVD. Hopefully there are deleted scenes or a bit more edgy material cut back into the film to fill out the movie and possibly up the rating to an "R".

As far as this film and its place among Paul Andersons films it is without a doubt the best one he has made yet. It is years beyond the complete cinematic garbage that was Soldier.

BTW, what is with the Alien 3 hate? Even before the SE was released the movie was a classic of visual style and mood...the SE just completes the drama.

 

[GuruAskew]

I just saw the movie and let me say this: it was every bit as bad as I thought it would be. Actually, it was worse.

 

[Justin_S]

Okay, I already stated that I hated the movies, so now I'll just list reasons:

- The characters are cardboard cutouts, not to mention very annoying. The only ones in the lot that aren't annoying are Henriksen (of course) and the guy from Resident Evil. In a recent issue of Fangoria, Anderson stated that he wanted a great cast of characters in the vein of Aliens. He failed miserably.

- The dialogue is absolutely cringe worthy. There's also two variations on the infamous "ugly motherfucker" line, and both (especially the second of the two) are delivered in such horrendous fashion that I could only shake my head.

- The sped up alien lifecycle timeline that has been mentioned already.

- The Predator vision has been changed for the lamer. Also, not a necessity, but I'd have liked it if the Predators had imitated human speech like in the first two films. Always found that rather eerie.

- Facehugger time.

- Lame and pointless storyline, and a few scenes that contradict others. The editing is also atrocious.

- Too few fights between the Aliens and the Predators, and the fights that are present are decent at best, and some of that atrocious editing takes place during them as well.

- The annoying lead teams up with the Predator, and starts running around with him. The scenes of them running together are hilarious, as is how she talks to the Predator like he'd be able to understand her. Even funnier, the girl is running around holding that alien head like a shield. Hahahaha, now that's fucking comedy! Their little scene before the Queen attacks is also incredibly lame, and it plays out like a lovey dovey scene. Then they have a bland variation on the ending to the outstanding Predator 2.

- Perhaps the Queen herself had a T-Rex as a host, because she runs just like the T-Rex from Jurassic Park, especially when she's chasing the lead through the whale bones. So lame, and her appearance seemed rather inconsistant.

- They dump her into the ocean, but that would not kill her.

- Then there's the alien's acidic blood which is so acidic that even a drop of it would burn through just about anything. Well, here the lead has some stuck to her face and barely even winces.

- Its never explained why Weyland's crew is so well armed.

- Finally, the movie is quite simply a huge bore. I had hardly any fun watching it. The most entertaing part of the film is where the lead an Pred team up, and that's only because I was laughing the whole time.

The highlight of this severely flawed bore is the Predalien at the end, and it should have had a major role in the film. Of course, Anderson just uses it for a "surprise" ending.

I like most of Anderson's previous films, but this is pure garbage. This is definitely the worst of both series, and the only film in either franchise that I don't like.

 

[Tino]

Gee Bill, that's a surprise!

 

[Jim Peavy]

And those are some of the finest action/SF movies (well, maybe not Predator... ) ever made (at least of recent times). It sound's as if you're saying if a movie doesn't come up to those standards, it's utter shite--? It's one or the other--? There's no room for a film, whereas certainly made by a less talented director and maybe which doesn't aim as high as the films above, nonetheless is entertaining and fun? I think there is.

As I've said elsewhere, Frankenstein meets the Wolfman is a heck of a long way from Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein or even The Wolfman, but it's still fun and worthwhile for what it is. Not sure why this concept (evidently) is so hard to understand for some.

 

[Ben Osborne]

I don't hold all action movies to the lofty standards of T2, Die Hard, etc. The point is that if I have to be told in advance to lower my standards to enjoy a movie, odds are I'm not going to like it, and therefore don't want to invest any time and money in seeing it. The best movies don't just try to be fun, they try to be good movies. If you look at the better action movies in the past few years -- movies like Ronin, The Bourne Supremacy, The Count of Monte Cristo, Spartan, and Gladiator -- you'll find that they all take themselves fairly seriously and don't just try to be entertaining. Video games are entertaining, but if I want a video game I'll stay home and play one.

 

[Ron-P]

I've heard that the movie is an hour and a half and the action doesn't begin until an hour into the movie. Can someone tell me if this is true or not.

 

[MickeS]

Ron-P, depends on how you define "action". I'd say it starts when they get into the pyramid, which is about half an hour into the movie. If you define it as when the first actual alien vs predator fight occurs, it might have been closer to an hour in.


This was one of the things I felt needed expanding on. It seemed as if there might have been a storyline dropped somewhere there.

/Mike

 

[Jim Peavy]

It's certainly cool if you didn't like it, but I don't know what you mean by "backlash". Those of us who did like it could just as easily say there's a backlash against us by you who didn't.

 

[Ron-P]

Thanks MickeS!

 

[DavidPla]

From www.imdb.com ...

--------------------

Hi, I'm back from the screening and Q&A and while I was able to ask some of the questions you guys posed, I couldn't get them all in. Regardless, many of the people who were also there had similar questions.

First of all, this screening was made up of industry professionals and filmmakers. No actors, but David Fincher, (Director of Alien 3) was there, which was cool. Now the audience were trying to be respectful in the beginning but as the film unfolded, the audience ended up really trashing the film. It was astounding to see Anderson's colleagues and friends openly making fun of his film, with him in the room!

When the Predator took off his helmet in front of Lex after the explosions someone shouted "Gimme some sugar, baby." I mean, this movie was bad, but I didn't expect these people to be so blatant about it.

When Anderson and the effects guys approached the tables, they were smirking with each other. The first subject that came up, no thanks to me, was the length and PG-13 rating.

So here it is, from the horses mouth.

About the studio's cutting of the film, which he had no control over, he said, and I quote, "All of the best scenes were cut." Anderson was obviously very annoyed at the way the film was released. However, this was not purely because of the PG-13 limitation, which incidentally, the studio enforced THREE WEEKS before the release date! It was always going to be R until then. Part of the reason for the cutting was that some of the effects were not ready by the time the release date came around. The effects team had very little time to do anything.

As far as the content that was cut, apparently we see all those who die, die on screen, but he also said that there is a sub-plot that we will have to wait for on DVD. Yes there will be an R-rated Director's cut DVD although they don't know the release date yet.

Without saying anything that could dig his own grave, Anderson tactfully pinned the fault of the poor quality of the film on the studio's cut. We all know that the script and performances was not quite up to par either, but then it was time for me to ask my first question.

"What specifically, makes you [Anderson] such a fan of the original 6 films?"

He went on to say that he thought they each had their own unique voice and were incredibly creative within a genre that often leads to purely formulaic films (ahem, mate, this is you!). He said that he was attempting to add his own unique voice to the series while paying hommage to the original source material. He also thought that the creatures, were the two greatest inventions in Science Fiction history. Someone then said, "Beyond lightsabers?" and he replied, "yes, even beyond lightsabers."

Some other effects questions were asked, which had some cool insights. The explosion sequence encompassed for half the budget, which was only 65mil in the first place (for a film like this, this is nothing), and all the shifting of the walls, yes ALL OF IT, was completely CGI. There were no moving live sets. Having watched it again, I have to say, I couldn't tell, and all my friends know that if there's some CG in a film, I'll see it. That impressed me. Also, they changed the appearance of the Queen slightly, adding a ridge to her crown and taking away, what they call, the "high heals" that she wore (the second reverse knee). Also, 80% of all the shots with an Alien in it was the hydraulic Alien they built.

Anyway, effects aside, I asked another question.

"I know that the AVP project has been surrounded by controversy since the first attempt in the early nineties. Why did you choose to not use any of the pre-existing stories, the original comic series, the Peter Briggs script, etc?"

He told me that he wanted to make the film his own. He also proclaimed that he'd had the idea for this film ever since seeing Predator 2. I thought that was probably ego-driven BS, but regardless, it's what he said. He also said that the Peter Briggs script is completely off-limits, shelved indefinately by Dark Horse and they won't let anyone tough it. Sounds to me like he tried, heh heh.

Later I asked some technical nerd questions. I wasn't the only one. I started by stating that I noticed some glaring continuity errors between this film and the pre-established occurences in the previous 6 films. Anderson stopped me before I could continue and said due to the "mangling" of the film, there was a lot left out. I asked, "Does that include the acceleration of the alien life cycle or was that just conveniant."

Whoops, I had hit a nerve. He shook his head. "No, no, the machine that the Predators built to house the Queen pumps her full of hormones that accelerate the birth of the creatures. If we'd seen the REAL film, we'd know that." Ouch.

The answer to why Aliens attacked the incubated predator was that the alien inside the Predator was not sanctified by the Aliens because it was essentially a different species due to the DNA reflex the Alien's possess. Okay, I guess I could go with that.

The Q&A wrapped up with talks about the digital intermediate and the difference between working with Super35 and Anamorphic.

I tried asking a last question but they ended it before I could. I pretty much hogged the Q&A as it was.

Afterwards I went and shook Anderson's hand. He remembered me from a mutual acquaintances birthday party. I told him I couldn;t wait for the Director's Cut and was really nice. I asked about a sequal and he said he'd thought about it but nothing concrete was in motion. They were waiting to see about the returns. I told him I had what he neede and I would send him my treatment through CAA. I assured him it was a direct sequal and he said, "Good." I then said, so they're letting you have a Director's cut, huh? He said, "yeah, it'll be great." Then I said, can I give you some advice from the youngest generation of filmmakers, namely, me." He said, "Sure, go for it." I said, "The facehuggers are fast, damn fast, get rid of the matrix shot when they jump out of the eggs for the first time." He said he'd take that into consideration. Then I started talking about the reviews. I talked about IMDB and how much of a "Lover Versus Haters" war had erupted. He seemed amused by that and then said, to my surprise, well, as a filmmaker, I'm satisfied with the film, but as a fan of the originals, this cut really pisses me off, so it makes sense I guess." he said he'd check it out (the IMDB boards) but I can't gaurantee that will happen. Just know that, if in a week or two someone comes on claiming to be Anderson, it might well be him.

All in all I was really happy about what he had to say. It was great to hear a filmmaker so honest about his work and he knows that he has a long way to go before he is any good as a filmmaker. Having talked to him before, I know that the films he is making now are films that, he feels, will only get him to a place where he can really excel.

Oh well, there it is, hope that shed some light on some stuff. Oh, and apparently, the book they wrote is based on the original R-rated cut, so that'll tell you what is missing.

---------------------

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0370263/board/flat/11022775

 

[Andres Munoz]

Great post David. Now I really want to see the Director's Cut just to find out how different his R version is although something tells me it won't be that much more different. Maybe a few more gore shots.

BTW, how the hell do you (as a director) work your ass off making a movie and then let "the studio" cut things out without you seeing the end product? That sounds like a little B.S to me.

Does that really happen? You as a director, sit down at the movie premiere and find out that things got cut without your knowledge???

 

[Jim Peavy]

Oh man, I actually thought that was kinda' cool...!:b

Thanks for the info, though. Most interesting; esp. the news of a director's cut!

 

[Norm]

DavidPla, Thanx for the great post.

I liked the Matrix shot as well. Those Matrix shots helped balance out the quick edits I though.

The Acid blood, my bad.:b I did have some little prick talking to his friend through the whole movie. I had to shhhh him a few times. Gosh I hope his distractions didn't make me like the movie.

I still can't believe I actually like a PWSA film. Since I hate everything he has ever done. So many let downs by this guy.

I will be buying the D.C. DVD.

 

[MickeS]

Andres, I don't see where Anderson says he didn't know about the cuts. If the director doesn't have much clout, I guarantee that "the studio" makes some of the editing decisions.

The "studio", meaning I assume the various producers, are ultimately responsible for the movie and I don't see it as odd that sometimes they tell the editor what to cut and not cut, without the director's approval.

Now, I doubt that the R-rated version will be that much better. I know for sure that the movie will be improved with more gore, though.

/Mike

 

[Kami]

Great news about the Director's Cut. I enjoyed the film for what it is (but I'm a hopeless Alien and Predator fan who would like almost anything) but this has gotten me even more excited. I had a feeling it was Fox who butchered it.

 

[Andres Munoz]

You're right MickeS. It looks like I mis-read the interview. It still has to be really annoying to have the studio cut your movie.