*** Official ALEXANDER Discussion Thread (2 Viewers)

[AlexCremers]

Different circumstances can lead to different conclusions. Also, having certain expectations upfront can have its influence on how you judge a movie.

Other movies that took two viewings for me were 'Blade Runner' and 'The Fight Club'. And on a smaller scale, 'The Bourne Identity'.

And then there are some instantly likeable movies that lose their shine upon second view, like David Fincher's 'The Room'.



Alex

 

[Alex Spindler]

I've had many movies move up in my estimation if I already sort of liked them (Rushmore and The Big Lebowski climb with every viewing), but only a few that I initially didn't like have crossed over into the positive. Some were just because I wasn't prepared or expecting the kind of movie they were. I didn't originally like Barton Fink, but it was clear I was expecting, at the age I was at the time, a movie more in line with Raising Arizona.

Also, Polanski's The Ninth Gate made some enormous strides for me when it was playing constantly on cable while I was sick. When I was able to get past some of the details, I finally saw some of the incredible work that was on display. It's a shame it gets discarded so quickly.


I've caught Sphere and The Core so many times on cable that I can have some perverse fun in their poor quality. 'Yes, I want you to disbelieve Harry!' and 'mini-psychotic break' are very funny after the 10th time.


I'm somewhat curious about the director's cut, now that the structure of it has been more clearly explained. I wasn't overly negative about Alexander in theaters but I had my expectations lowered ahead of time by the negative press, so I sort of cruised along and enjoyed it largely on the basis of his visuals. But I'll readily admit, I didn't find too much depth behind the surface conflicts he was wrestling with. Perhaps the editing might make for a more meaningful experience? The flashback to his childhood and father midway through were rather jarring to me. It sounds as though that is more smoothely integrated.

I should also say that I strangely found Kilmer and Jolie to be the high point of the film. I don't think I ever got past Colin enough to forget he was an actor, so that was a bit of a distraction.

 

[Nathan V]

I'm so happy that people are warming up to this movie, or at least watching it before choosing to dislike it! David, thanks for the compliment. PatrickDA, you are so right about the showstopping moments. I also love how many of those great setpieces are now placed later in the movie (and one right after another!). The Alexander-Cleitus argument and Alexander-confronting-his-father scene are absolute dynamite for me. Killer dialogue and editing.

With regard to liking films on repeat viewings, I am definitely in the second-time-is-better camp. Many of my favorite films (Heat, Thin Red Line, Casino) were not my favorite films when I first saw them. The great films are made with such attention to detail, and are so strong in every aspect of filmmaking, that it would be impossible for me to comprehend and appreciate them all in one viewing. Heat was the movie that got me into "films;" I'd rented it thinking it was an action movie and was bored to death, and it was only about 2 hours into the movie that I realized that the focus of the movie was not action, but human behavior and interaction. It was the first time I understood that film characters could be observed as people, rather than seen as vessels standing in place of the viewer. Most times, it's a matter of expectations. I was expecting an action movie, not a thoughtful meditation on men and their jobs (off topic, but isn't it interesting how so many of Michael Mann's movies are about people and their jobs, and how this subject is strangely avoided by most of hollywood?). I had keyed my brain to expecting lots of explosions. When there were none, I was disappointed (but not at the bank shootout, let me tell you). Or with Julie Taymor's Titus. I don't know what I was expecting, but I sure as hell wasn't expecting what I got; I turned it off after 45 minutes. After rewatching it much later, I loved it; now I own the dvd. Or sometimes it's a matter of circumstance. One might simply be in the wrong frame of mind at the time. Like when I tried to watch The English Patient at 2 in the morning. Baaaaaaaaddd idea.

I'll have more thoughts later-

Nathan

 

[PatrickDA]

People keep attacking the first cut for the flashback
involving Philip's assassination, but that whole set piece
scene is extremely important to the pervious set piece
sequence ending in Alexander killing Cleitus and fits
perfectly together if the audience would've been paying
attention instead of acting like a bunch of shallow
Americans laughing at "over-the-top" acting/writing! If they
want Wedding Crashers so bad, they can have it...I'll take
Alexander any day of the week and twice on Sunday! How
could somebody not get depth out of the story? I
guess I just don't what people want anymore...if it's
Memento or Moulin Rouge then I'll just have to be in
the minority, but plenty of people are!

Oh, and don't get me started on attacking Colin's performance.
I felt it fit perfectly into the Greek style that Stone was
going for, but people wanted or were expecting a Russell
Crowe-like performance and thankfully Colin didn't try that.
Alexander is a far different character from any historical
figure ever attempted to be put on film and he really
brought a new kind of performance to the epic genre. I
agree that Kilmer and Jolie were both very good...career
best for Jolie and second or third best for Kilmer.

Nathan - That 'Titus' DVD in a very nice package! One
of the first special edition DVD's I got for a somewhat
smaller film! I was lucky enough to like 'Titus' from
the first time and saw it twice during its very brief
apperance in local theaters. 'Heat'...I'm the opposite
of you on that one...I'm afraid since Mr. Mann is my
third favorite director, but all three of the female
sub-plots have nearly killed the film for me. I've
watched it at least 30-40 times, but I haven't in about
five years, because the female characters are badly
written and the acting isn't much better. Oh well, can't
like them all I guess. Now 'Casino' is a masterwork!!!
I thought it was just 'ok' when I saw it in theaters
November of 1995, but now I'd give it an A instead of
my original B/B+...'Heat' was an A for about two years
then I dropped it to a B- in '03. Malick's 'The Thin
Red Line was a masterpiece in Feb. of '99 and still is!
'The English Patient' has gone down, then up, then
down, it's up now to my Best Pic of '96, but Minghella
really nailed 'Ripley' but gave us one of the worst
historical films in recent memory with 'Cold Mtn.'

AlexCremers - The accents weren't "laughable" at all!
Stone had a very interesting reason for using Irish,
Scottish, and Welsh accents for the Macedonians that
he has stated at least 50 times dealing with the Greeks
being the refined educated elite and treating the
Macedonians much in the same way England treats Ireland
& Scotland today. So he drew attention to the difference
between the Greek city states versus Macedonia AND
was really wanting to break away from every actient
epic having the same British accents. Thank God!
Also, what do you mean "bad taste" in reference to
Hopkins and the whole indelibeartely campy attack...I
guess people don't expect that sort of style with
historical films, but I felt it worked here and in
'Titus'...Stone was out of his league, huh? Well, it
that's the case I sure hope he keeps it up!

 

[Garrett Lundy]

I will update, it was the Directors Cut I was refering to, thank you.

 

[JonZ]

"If they want Wedding Crashers so bad, they can have it...I'll take Alexander any day of the week and twice on Sunday"

Amen brother.

I dont really have a opinion of Jolie. She was fine I guess. Val was pretty good and fits the part perfectly. The Hopkins scenes dont take up that much time either - so I dont understand why people are complaining about them. oh well.

"Now 'Casino' is a masterwork!!!"

I very clearly remember seeing the Siskel & Ebert with Casino and Ebert was shocked Siskel was giving it a thumbs down. He thought Sharon Stone was terrible and her performance brought down the whole thing.

Maybe time will be a bit kinder to this film. We've seen plenty of examples of films becoming more appreciated over time.

 

[Shawn_KE]

Saw this over the weekend. Pretty good battle scenes and nice parts by Kilmer, but this movie bored me. Was Jolie trying to sound like a vampire?

 

[PatrickDA]

No, Jolie wasn't trying to sound like a vampire!

I just can't get over people saying they were bored while
watching this movie! I guess I just don't get what other
people want anymore, but I found 'Finding Neverland' &
'Million $ Baby' to be beyond boring and yet people ate
them up. Oh, well...maybe reading quite a bit about the
real Alexander, Stone being my favorite director, and
following the production of the movie from day one added
a great deal to my interest while watching it. I've seen it
12 times thus far, with more to come.