*** Official 2003 Academy Awards Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Alex Spindler]

Boy are you ever right on that one. I was very critical of it based on the premise and trailer. Now I'm one of its biggest supporters and fans. I think it has earned its nominations the hard way, defying our expectations and not having a path to a nom layed out before it. Especially considering there is another period ship movie sitting right next to it in the visual effects list.

As for Depp's nom, it should be all that surprising. He crafted a memorable character that elevated every scene he was in, brought in consistent laughs, and carried the weight of the film (considering Orlando Bloom was pretty well eclipsed). And him winning an Oscar for it? Remember that the only gold trophy Pacino walked away with was for Scent of a Woman.

Of course, I'm still pulling for Murray to win.

 

[Stevan Lay]

I did

See this smiley >

That was my reaction upon reading the nominations for Best Achievement in Directing, Best Writing, Screenplay Based on Material Previously Produced or Published, Best Achievement in Cinematography, and Best Achievement in Editing.

I'd high hopes for its four nominated categories and the Academy voters came good to give the film its deserved recognition.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Actor and Actress aren't even a race....it's Penn and Theron, period. I think Supporting might be locked already too with Robbins and Zellweger.

The other good performances got nominated which is the more serious honor (or far worse to "miss" in).

Actually Cold Mountain did very well with nominations overall. It still got one more noms than Mystic River which is the closest ROTK competition out there.

How about M&C coming up big time. I am thrilled for all the noms it got, even if Crowe missed out (crowded as always in that category).

 

[Kevin Grey]

I agree except about Penn. I think its a dead heat between Penn and Murray. Penn didn't help his chances by being a no-show at the GG while Murray gave the speech of the night.

 

[Robert Anthony]

Well, I kinda think the Lesnie "snub" might be the same reason he got "Snubbed" for Two Towers - I think the Academy is considering his cinematography one single work since it was shot all at one time. It's not as if his work is any worse in the following 2 movies (I was actually a little more awed by the photography in ROTK than FOTR, actually) so I figure that might be the reason.

The Matrix FX fight was indeed hashed out in the middle of the Oscar Discussion thread on this page somewhere. It's pretty good reading, people should check that out if they're perplexed.

I'm VERY surprised that Hughes got the nom and Johanssen got shut out. I do agree that it's pretty much Penn or Theron, but then again, Murray I think does have an outside shot.

I'm really curious to see if "Into the West" gets the Oscar. That song manages to get my girl to well up after 4 notes. STILL. I was surprised it won the Golden Globe, so I'm hoping the emotional weight of that ending is so tied into the music and that translates to a win. But I fully expect Mighty Wind's song to take it.

Interesting to see City of God in there. That guy might actually take best Director, honestly.

 

[Patrick Sun]

We had a meltdown at work (power went out, and the UPSs finally gave up the ghost after an hour, so I've been busy getting people back up and running once the power showed up.

Props have to go for the City of God nominations because this film was flat out amazing.

I'm surprised by all the love for M&C, a film that I didn't like a lot (I doubt it would place in my Top 10 films for hte year). I still think POTC was 20 minutes too long, thus I never went back on that ride. Seabiscuit is a surprise as well considering when it came out, so many months ago.

It's a bit interesting that Jennifer Connelly's co-stars came up big in "The House of Sand and Fog" while she didn't. The best actress nom for Keisha Castle-Hughes is a big surprise. Glad they didn't forget Ken Watanabe.

Overall, I feel that the acting field is a bit thin.

I can understand all the love for LiT due to Coppola's pedigree and she delivered a film that hits many people in a place that reflects their own unrest and uncertainty of their place in life. It's a shame that Scarlett Johanssen got shut out in either Best Actress/Best Supporting Actress category. I would have given her the spot that Patricia Clarkson holds in the Best Supporting category.

 

[ToddP]

Those are awful close numbers for 4-6. Wonder if anyone has a formula to account for Cold Mountain getting "snubbed".

 

[Seth Paxton]

Kevin, that has nothing to do with it. It's all about perception and as nice as Murray is in LiT, he is still basically playing himself. For example, when the Jap. director is giving him direction in Jap. Murray really was not told what was being said to him, so he was able to really just react as if it was himself in that situation.

Penn had to stretch it a bit, and not just into sadness, but also a certain cruelty and toughness from being a crew leader while at the same time remaining sympathetic (contrast with someone like Pesci in Goodfellas).



Okay, here are the numbers from my Best Pix formula:
16.58 ROTK
13.48 Mystic
13.45 Cold Mountain
10.81 M&C
10.64 Seabiscuit
10.56 LiT

I left Cold Mountain up there just for information sake.

But here is the most important bit of info. No matter who wins the guild awards, no film can catch ROTK total. That means that as of now, by my 10 for the last 10 formula, ROTK WILL WIN BEST PIX. Period. I would put my family savings and grandma's best jewels on it.

If Mystic wins every single Guild it is still up for and ROTK does not, Mystic can not do better than a 15.98.

Also, Mystic missed one category that NO BEST PIX WINNER has missed over the last 10 years...Best Editing Oscar nom. You have to have that to win, or have so far. As always I stand behind the point total versus any "must have" category because there can be exceptions if a film is strong elsewhere, but ROTK leads in points and does have all the "must have" categories wrapped up too, so they will remain "must haves".

Congrats to ROTK, the rest of you are welcome to wait pensively if you'd like to, but I'm getting the champagne out now.


PS - yes, the formula showed SiL over SPR and Braveheart over Apollo 13 (both during testing since I hadn't created it yet) and ABM over FOTR and its 13 noms.

 

[ZacharyTait]

Here's my thoughts on the nominations. The numbers are what I scored in the predictions.

Picture: 5/5- No surprises as far as I'm concerned. I too started out thinking that Cold Mountain would get a BP nomination, but over the past month or so I began to change my tune to the point where I was pretty comfortable it wasn't going to get a nomination.

Actor: 4/5 - That 5th slot was dicey and I expected Russell Crowe to ride the coattails of M&C to the final spot. Oh well.

Actress: 3/5 - Keisha and Samantha came out of nowhere. I was hoping they would get nominated, but didn't think they had a chance. I'm glad I was proven wrong.

Supporting Actor: 4/5 - Sean Astin was the real chance for ROTK to getting an acting nomination. I can't complain about the 5 that were though.

Supporting Actress: 2/5 - Ouch. At least one I didn't get ended up in the Actress race: Keisha. I'm disappointed Scarlett didn't get nominated for anything.

Director: 4/5 - I made the mistake of pairing up Pic with Director when I knew it would probably go 4 for 5. I'm thrilled at Fernando Mereilles getting nominated.

Adapted Screenplay: 3/5 - I had no clue about City of God, but kind of figured Seabiscuit might squezze in there. It was hard whitiling it down to 5.

Original Screenplay: 3/5 - This, just like Adapted Screenplay, was hard to get a feel for the consensus. At least I didn't screw it up too bad.

Final Score for the Big Categories: 28/40. Not bad at all.

If I feel like it, I'll post comments about the technical categories at a later date.

 

[Kevin Grey]

Seth, I'm talking about general perception among the industry, trades, etc not the merits of the individual performances as I see them. Seemingly playing himself or not, Murray has gotten a lot of acclaim for this performance and, after stalling for a little while, it feels like momentum for LiT has been building again the last few weeks. I don't think it will gain enough to challenge ROTK in either picture or director so the only way to really reward LiT would be a Murray win or screenplay win.

I think the Globes win and, more importantly, the speech were significant because Murray has always had a bit of a bad rap in Hollywood and is seen as something of an outsider. His charming speech did a lot to countermand that, I think.

Plus, playing himself won Jack Nicholson an Oscar for As Good as it Gets

 

[Tim Glover]

Another pleasant surprise to see Depp get nominated by the Academy. Normally, these kind of performances get overlooked because they aren't taken seriously. The Academy loves for actors when they choose roles that are complex or deal with social issues.

Finally, they nominated an actor who played the character that was a bit crazy but also fun and audiences loved.

I was pulling for Tom Cruise for his role in The Last Samurai. And disappointed it did not get nominated for Best Picture.

Seasbiscuit was good, but not for Best Picture. Just my opinion of course.

I know animated films have separate categories now, but I think Finding Nemo was among the top 2-3 movies of 2003.

Congrats on ROTK for it's 11 noms. Not really surprised for Astin not being nominated. The Academy really, really screwed up big time in 2001 when Sir Ian did not win for his supporting role.

I have strong issues with the Academy anyway. Still can't forgive them for not awarding Star Wars Best Picture in 1977. I think Annie Hall or The Deer Hunter won. And can't forgive them for The Fellowship Of The Ring not winning Best Picture in 2001 or for Sir Ian not winning. Finally, still angered over Attack Of The Clones lack of a Sound nomination.

Guess I should leave now and attend my therapy for this.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Well in both testing and usage I have at times ran more films in there than just the noms, especially to verify that a non-nom'd film didn't have a higher score than the predicted winner, thus contradicting it's effectiveness.

What I have seen is that every year there are 1-3 films that are "snubbed" despite scoring so high, almost as if to make room for a smaller or lesser known film.

Normally this is then blamed on money (Miramax and Chocolat) or Box Office considerations or something, but frankly I think it has a lot to do with varying tastes and the desire to spread it around on a nomination ballet (and that process was clarified in another thread when Vickie question the possiblity that you could be snubbed with all 2nd place votes...not likely).


Last year here were the FINAL numbers (after Guild awards were done too):
18.81 Chicago
15.98 Hours
14.97 GONY
11.00 Adaptation (snubbed)
8.86 About Schmidt (snubbed)
8.74 Far From Heaven (snubbed)
8.74 The Pianist
7.19 TTT

Perdition, Frida, and Greek Wedding all fell into the 5's.

It's just a lot harder to predict ALL Best Pix nominees and it takes a lot more consideration than just Globes, Guilds and other Oscar nominations (not exactly helpful in predicting nominations in another Oscar category anyway ).


So really Cold Mountain being out isn't a big shocker. It happens almost every year.


More info (remember my formula only covers the last 10 years):
The last time that all 5 nominees scored a 10 or higher = never, though in 1994 In the Name of the Father was 5th with a 9.51.

Lowest winning score = Braveheart, 15.84 (only 2 films have won with less than a 20, the other was Beautiful Mind)

Highest winning score = English Patient, 24.79

Max score ROTK could get with guild wins = 19.18

(this would most resemble the ABM vs FOTR race, except in reverse with Mystic River coming in 2nd)

Closest score for winner = Braveheart was only .82 points ahead of Sense and Sensibility with A13 in 3rd 1 full point behind.

FOTR final score = 16.04 (ROTK has already passed it)

Score for last year's winner, Chicago = 22.22

 

[Craig S]

being sung on worldwide television.

I think the two Cold Mountain songs are pretty much out of it. Vote splitting, overall weakness of CM, etc. If I were looking for an upset here, I'd look to "Triplets Of Belleville". The Academy has often used the Music categories to honor more obscure films, and those who've heard this song (I haven't yet - hopefully this weekend when ToB opens here) are entranced by it.

 

[Brook K]

I'm very happy Barbarian Invasions got a screenplay nomination though it has no chance of winning. There's really nothing else I'm interested in. Master and Commander is the only film that got major nominations that rated even an "A-" with me. Maybe this year I'll finally resist watching the show.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Actually I don't know about that. I think the dual nominations shows that others reacted like I did which was to be impressed with how well the film used its songs as the score while also existing within the film world rather than as a tag-on exit song.

I love ROTK and Anne Lennox, but we often complain about how more songs used WITHIN the film should be nominated rather than some pop singer throwing out an exit song for the credits.

If it "sucked" when McCartney did it or when Elton John does it (every year, right ) then shouldn't we have the same gripe with Lennox's nomination versus Cold Mountain?

I just wonder if Academy voters don't also see greater merit in using the song within the film and as part of the plot too.

 

[Robert Anthony]

" Don't get me wrong - it's a great tune, but I think the boisterous "A Mighty Wind" would have been a stronger competitor. I guess the Academy just didn't want to deal with the final line"

True, and there's precedent for that--everyone knows that "Blame Canada" wasn't even CLOSE to the best song on the South Park soundtrack--that would be either "La Resistance" or "Uncle Fucka" and there was quite a serious push, if I remember, for "Uncle Fucka" to get a nomination. But since the lyrics of both songs were a little too raunch, I think they chose the safe pick just to at the LEAST recognize the best musical of that year.

I do honestly think that movie was robbed of Best Score, tho. people laugh when I say that, but the score for that movie was VERY well done.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Personally, I would have dropped Master and Commander off the list over Cold Mountain. But it was a crowded field of good, not great films this year.

 

[Chris Atkins]

Well I liked SEABISCUIT (my #9 for the year) but it was much more uneven than MASTER AND COMMANDER or COLD MOUNTAIN. The first 45 minutes are confusing because of the need to stretch too much character development and plot over too thin of a frame. SEABISCUIT would have played better at at least 2 1/2 hours, which would have given us more time with the characters in the beginning.

 

[Evan Case]

Amazing to look at those numbers and realize how close The Pianist (most likely) came to winning it all last year. With your thus-far infallible system, that'd have been an upset on the order of the "Miracle on Ice" or Douglas vs Tyson.

Quite pleased with the crop this year (though I still have to see Mystic River, Monster, and In America. Stunned and delighted that City of God was remembered (it was my #2 last year, behind The Pianist). If I wanted to be greedy, I could ask why it got director and script noms, but not Picture--just as I could've been greedy last year in wanting The Pianist to take Best Picture, when by rights I should've been thrilled that it even won the lofty prizes it did.

For this year, I'm on ROTK's bandwagon the whole way. FOTR and A.I. split my 2001 love, while the theatrical version TTT didn't even crack my Top 5. ROTK, however, is far and away my #1 this year, as it not only deserves Best Picture on its individual merits, but as a cumulative award for a saga that, (small) warts and all, is better than I could've hoped for. Mildly disappointed to see Astin unnominated, as he was to ROTK what McKellan/Bean were to FOTR and Serkis was to TTT. Glad for Howard Shore, who unquestionably saved his best for last, sad for Andrew Lesnie, who did so as well.

Should be a fun evening. I'd expect it to be only the second time in a decade my own Best Picture choice takes the crown (the other, so that I might undermine all credibility, was Gladiator, in a decidely weak 2000 ).

 

[Sean Cauley]

I think Lennox's song narrowly escapes these criticisms for a couple of reasons. For one, the melody of its chorus is worked into the score of the feature during a major scene (Mount Doom), almost as if the score is echoing something we haven't heard yet. Secondly, the lyric is tied so closely to the material of the film, it feels more like an organic part of the movie and less like it's just been tacked on to spur soundtrack sales and lock up an Oscar nod.