Ockeghem's All Things DARK SHADOWS (w/Spoilers) (3 Viewers)

[GeorgeJA]

Hi folks -

Some real world issues came up that kept me offline. I've still been watching, but needless to say, Scott has jumped out way ahead of me. But I did want to make a few comments about all that's been transpiring since episode 330.

Reading the comments posted recently. David has been one of the topics, and well he should be as he's dominated the storyline since he got trapped in the mausoleum. He's got into a 'boy who cried wolf' syndrome as no one believes him about Barnabas, mainly because he's a child, but especially because of his wild imagination and his difficulty with a little thing called 'telling the truth'. The irony is when he's talking about some of these incredible things (ghosts, vampires), is when he actually is telling the truth. But we learn something about David that explains why he is so in touch with the supernatural - he is psychic. They never make a big deal about it on the show, but think about it, his dream reveals what's happening around him - Sarah is a ghost, Barnabas comes out a coffin, and he anticipates Julia and her medallion before he ever sees it in real life. By the way, I think David's dream is a lot creepier in the black & white kinescope backup copy then it is in the reprise in the next episode where we see it in color.

Victoria Winters has been safe for the time being. but it's only because Barnabas has been forced to play defense. "Little David" has been on his mind, but that pesky Willie refuses to die after being shot by the police and supposed exposed as Maggie's kidnapper. Willie was a logical choice as a fall guy. I had to laugh when Maggie and Sam were shocked that it was him. I was thinking to myself, you've already forgotten what a creep he was when he first came to town, when Joe Haskell pretty much expressed the same thoughts. I like it when the writers anticipate my questions Barnabas has to double-team the authorities (sorry with the football references, but 'tis the season) both in proving Willie was the kidnapper, and making sure he dies before he can tell anyone anything. We see how cunning Barnabas can be on the first hit by having Maggie's ring hidden in Willie's room, but he just doesn't have the team behind him to deliver the fatal hit - Julia has a moral dilemma - she can't resist helping Barnabas for the sake of science, but she herself cannot take a life even though it would make her life easier (and this won't be the first time she faces this dilemma).

And I'll stick up for Joan Bennett too. When I was first watching the show, Elizabeth was merely a character who's purpose was to react to the weirdness around her, but since watching the early episodes, I found her to be a much more interesting character, and Joan certainly helped bring that across. Yes, the writing was good, but so was her portrayal And it's not just Elizabeth, but all the early characters are now more vivid to me and so far, I feel it has enhanced the viewing of the show.

 

[Mark Collins]

George how great to hear from you. I cannot wait for the Scott and George in depth reflection on DS episodes. I once again must plug the audio Night Whispers which stars Jonathan Fid. I also would plug Return to Collinwood which has most of the orginal cast. The other audio drams I leave to your judgment and purse at this time. I will say I must back off. Jonathan Frid also has some neat dvds for sale at his web site. I must state for me with Christmas coming I cannot purchase at this time.

I guess I dodged David Collins. I remember an item in TV guide about children on TV. Someone said do not forget David Collins on Dark Shadows. I was glad to see a plug for the show. I know David Hensey has gone on record to say how much he hated the Phoenix storyline which he has a right to say. David Collins however was very important to the DS storyline over it's 5 year run. He was a teen Idol as I remember during the Quentin Collins storyline. Tiger Beat or some teen Mags at the time featured him. Quentins storyline had to have the Henry James children. The early Barnabas episodes were very fun to watch with David. The " he should get a sound spanking" and so forth. I also enjoyed a fun episode when he and Amy became like the children of Barnabas and Julia. Julia speaks to them as a Mother. She speaks of Barnabas like a father to them. 1795 Hensey has a great seen with Ben Stokes during a running away scene. He is very important in the summer of 1897. He is ok in 1969 but as we move into 1970 and beyond I found the writers were running out of material for him. He only makes maybe 1 or 2 episodes of 1840 and that is the very last we see of Hensey.

 

[Charles Ellis]

Well, I wrote to Miss Bennett wishing her a happy 80th birthday and she sent me a lovely note which I treasure to this day. A few years back I wrote to Alexandra Moltke Isles and she signed some photos I sent her. Did you know that Diana and Joan knew each other before DS? According to Diana, she first met Joan at party at Vincente Minnelli's house circa 1960. Actually, it was a small world among DS cast members and crew as paths had been crossed before the series began. Sam Hall had written a great 1963 episode of The United States Steel Hour that Diana had starred in, and that's how she first met Sam and Grayson. Jonathan Frid and DS writer Ron Sproat knew each other from Yale University in the 1950s, and supposedly Sproat had put in a good word for Jonathan when he auditioned for Barnabas. A few years before joining DS, Kathleen Cody did a TV production of Arthur Miller's The Crucible starring George C. Scott and Collen Dewhurst, with Thayer David and Clarice Blackburn in the cast!

 

[Ockeghem]

^^^

Great info., Charles. I have yet to see any of the special feature interview footage with Clarice Blackburn. I know I have them on either my Dark Shadows: The Beginning or my VHS Collector's Series (vols. 1-54). I look forward to seeing that interview one day soon. I thought she excelled as Sarah Johnson and as Abigail on Dark Shadows.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Sorry if this has already been covered, but do any of you DS experts know with which DVD volume number that MPI stopped editing the episodes (which had been previously issued unedited on VHS)? I want to say that I read somewhere it was only the first four or five "Collections" that contained the edits, but I just wanted to be sure.

 

[Ockeghem]

Andy,

I actually asked that question once when I wrote to MPI. Their response was not very helpful in this instance, unfortunately. They told me that the Collections were not edited. Great, eh?

I think Mark Collins or Brian Himes (the latter hasn't posted much in this thread, I don't think, but he has posted in other Dark Shadows threads) would know this answer. Brian seemed to have a good grasp of what had and had not been edited. You might consider sending him a PM. I could only make a guess without actually testing the formats against one another, and that guess would not be very helpful. Sorry,

 

[Mark Collins]

Happy Friday Everyone. I am sorry Andy I did not get a chance to read the thread last night or I would have got back to you more promptly.

The Dark Shadows DVD Collection has complete episodes with no edits in them. The confusion for people is because they do a summary on DVD 1 of Dark Shadows the first year. You then begin with the Barnabas episodes and end in 1841 PT or April 2nd 1971 the last episode of DS. The dvds then go to Dark Shadows the first year . Starting with episode one of Dark Shadow. The last dvd episode ends with Willie's first visit to the Collins Tomb. I love the episode because the Eagle Hill Care taker is in the epiosde. I really enjoyed that particular actor.

MPI decided to edit the first 8 vhs tapes when the show was first released to home video. The 9th vhs tape is where the editing stops. The summary of year 1 first appeared on VHS tape1. Tapes 9 thru 200 are all unedited episodes. MPI decided to then release the first year of DS under the title The Dark Shadows Collectors Series. The tapes ran from 1 thru 52. MPI put back all the edited out material at that time. Tape 52 at the end informs the viewer to pick up the series on VHS tape 9. The collectors series also offers interviews with cast members.

Scott Clarice Blackburn has a very nice interview on one of the tapes. The interviews were not repeated on the DVD series. MPI filmed new cast interviews for the DVD collection. I believe MPI decided to leave the summary of year 1 just to give fans a look at what storylines DS had before Barnabas. Andy I hope this helps.

 

[Ockeghem]

Mark,

Thanks for the information on Clarice Blackburn. I knew I had the interview somewhere, but couldn't recall on which set (or which format). I will look for this over the weekend.

Tonight, I managed to get in another two episodes (nos. 353-354) of Dark Shadows. Carolyn is now fully under the power of Barnabas, and she has just informed him that Dr. Hoffman via hypnotizing Victoria is meddling in his plans for he and Vicky. Victoria doesn't remember being hypnotized, of course, but she also cannot forget (thanks to Julia's hypnosis) what it is that Julia has planted in her brain when she returns to 'normal.' Great stuff from this series, as usual.

 

[GeorgeJA]

Well, I got through another DS disk and finished episode 340.

Scott, you made a reference once to a power that you didn't know Barnabas had - was his appearing in Dave Woodard's office what you had in mind?

Anyway, I knew it time to say farewell when I saw that Peter Turgeon replaced him. Other signs that I think I would have guessed if I didn't know what was coming was that he basically makes the same fatal error that Dr. Guthrie made with Laura by showing Barnabas what he was on to something. Also, that he kept missing Burke Devlin in order to tell him what he knew, made it obvious as well. While it couldn't be helped, I feel that changing the actor at this point kind of dulled the tension a bit - only a bit - because we got that nice little scene with Woodard sneaking into Julia's bedroom to find her notes, not to mention his showdown with both Julia and Barnabas, which I will have to wait a few days to see the results of that.

I wanted to make a comment on Sarah. I still think she didn't know she was ghost when she appeared to Maggie - she seemed a bit confused and talked about looking for her parents, but that's not true anymore. She is walking a tightrope: she doesn't like what Barnabas is doing and tries her best to foil his plans and keep Collinsport safe, but Barnabas is her brother and she loves him despite his actions. This is why she stops short of exposing him to anyone else. In her own way, she's basically saying 'can't we all just get along?'

Also, I was eyeing the "Return To Collinwood" CD on Amazon.

 

[Ockeghem]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJA
Well, I got through another DS disk and finished episode 340.

Scott, you made a reference once to a power that you didn't know Barnabas had - was his appearing in Dave Woodard's office what you had in mind?

Anyway, I knew it time to say farewell when I saw that Peter Turgeon replaced him. Other signs that I think I would have guessed if I didn't know what was coming was that he basically makes the same fatal error that Dr. Guthrie made with Laura by showing Barnabas what he was on to something. Also, that he kept missing Burke Devlin in order to tell him what he knew, made it obvious as well. While it couldn't be helped, I feel that changing the actor at this point kind of dulled the tension a bit - only a bit - because we got that nice little scene with Woodard sneaking into Julia's bedroom to find her notes, not to mention his showdown with both Julia and Barnabas, which I will have to wait a few days to see the results of that.

I wanted to make a comment on Sarah. I still think she didn't know she was ghost when she appeared to Maggie - she seemed a bit confused and talked about looking for her parents, but that's not true anymore. She is walking a tightrope: she doesn't like what Barnabas is doing and tries her best to foil his plans and keep Collinsport safe, but Barnabas is her brother and she loves him despite his actions. This is why she stops short of exposing him to anyone else. In her own way, she's basically saying 'can't we all just get along?'

Also, I was eyeing the "Return To Collinwood" CD on Amazon.

George,

Yes, that was one of two specific 'powers' that I was referring to when I wrote that. The other is down the road a bit. I believe it occurs when he has a showdown with Dr. Lange.

I agree with what you wrote regarding the change in actors (Dr. Woodard). I wanted very much to see how Gerringer would have acted had he stayed on for a few more episodes. But the strike that was occurring at this time influenced a few of the actors' decisions; hence, we get another actor in the role of Dr. Woodard.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Originally Posted by Mark Collins
Happy Friday Everyone. I am sorry Andy I did not get a chance to read the thread last night or I would have got back to you more promptly.

The Dark Shadows DVD Collection has complete episodes with no edits in them. The confusion for people is because they do a summary on DVD 1 of Dark Shadows the first year. You then begin with the Barnabas episodes and end in 1841 PT or April 2nd 1971 the last episode of DS. The dvds then go to Dark Shadows the first year . Starting with episode one of Dark Shadow. The last dvd episode ends with Willie's first visit to the Collins Tomb. I love the episode because the Eagle Hill Care taker is in the epiosde. I really enjoyed that particular actor.

MPI decided to edit the first 8 vhs tapes when the show was first released to home video. The 9th vhs tape is where the editing stops. The summary of year 1 first appeared on VHS tape1. Tapes 9 thru 200 are all unedited episodes. MPI decided to then release the first year of DS under the title The Dark Shadows Collectors Series. The tapes ran from 1 thru 52. MPI put back all the edited out material at that time. Tape 52 at the end informs the viewer to pick up the series on VHS tape 9. The collectors series also offers interviews with cast members.

Scott Clarice Blackburn has a very nice interview on one of the tapes. The interviews were not repeated on the DVD series. MPI filmed new cast interviews for the DVD collection. I believe MPI decided to leave the summary of year 1 just to give fans a look at what storylines DS had before Barnabas. Andy I hope this helps.

Mark:
I'm well aware of the 'condensed' episodes on VHS tapes 1-8 (which I rented when they came out). What I'm referring two are edits that, according to some DS website I remember reading, were possibly made by the authoring house, with or without MPI's knowledge.

What it boils down to is that in most cases, they were editing out many of the in-show "bloopers" that the series is famous for. Other edits were to cover master tape faults. Fans complained, particularly when the previous VHS releases weren't tampered with, and MPI made sure it wasn't going to happen again.
As far as I know, though, they never issued corrected, unucut versions of those sets.

 

[Ockeghem]

Originally Posted by AndyMcKinney

Mark:
I'm well aware of the 'condensed' episodes on VHS tapes 1-8 (which I rented when they came out). What I'm referring two are edits that, according to some DS website I remember reading, were possibly made by the authoring house, with or without MPI's knowledge.

What it boils down to is that in most cases, they were editing out many of the in-show "bloopers" that the series is famous for. Other edits were to cover master tape faults. Fans complained, particularly when the previous VHS releases weren't tampered with, and MPI made sure it wasn't going to happen again.
As far as I know, though, they never issued corrected, unucut versions of those sets.

Andy,

I believe you're right with regard to these specific types of edits ('bloopers' and 'master tape faults'), and about these never being issued in corrected, uncut versions. The VHS tapes (thankfully) have these intact. I read what you're referring to as well, and I think it was Dan Curtis himself who got wind of it and told whomever not to tamper with them after hearing of the complaints.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Originally Posted by Ockeghem


Andy,

I believe you're right with regard to these specific types of edits ('bloopers' and 'master tape faults'), and about these never being issued in corrected, uncut versions. The VHS tapes (thankfully) have these intact. I read what you're referring to as well, and I think it was Dan Curtis himself who got wind of it and told whomever not to tamper with them after hearing of the complaints.

the thing I have trouble remember was exactly how many volumes this affected. I seem to remember it was the "first four or so" volumes, but I can't recall whether it was ever announced which volume was the first to be "tamper-free."

 

[Mark Collins]

Andy sorry I did not get back to you. I just now caught up with the DS thread. Chciago weather has been mid 80s and again for this coming weekend!! Yes I knew of those complaints. The one VHS tape release however in the storyline coming up where Scott sent his daughter out of the room was flawed in the kinescope version. The DVDS corrected it at least mine was. The scene was in Josettes Room. Scott I thought you were refering to a very special power that is coming in next episodes. The secret magic number I will say no more. George buy Return I think you will like it. I just listened to Jonathan Frid again last night in the newest CD as Barnabas. I pick up new things each time I hear it. Andy back to you. I really do not know when this began. You guys I was glad the role was switched for a 3rd time. I thought there were two strikes. The soaps were all off the air in the spring of 67 and only DS was airing. I remember it well. They were airing reruns of old TV shows. The new Dr Woodward I enjoyed in the record room of Eagle Hill with the new caretaker. I also enjoyed how he exited the show. Jonathan had some great moments there. Remember he is the one that gets slapped by the Nun in Airport the movie and setting off the comic Airpane scene. I also want to congratulate George on David's ESP I never thought of that after all these years. Good work George and sorry again Andy. What about that secret magic number of the............. Scott.

 

[Ockeghem]

Originally Posted by AndyMcKinney

the thing I have trouble remember was exactly how many volumes this affected. I seem to remember it was the "first four or so" volumes, but I can't recall whether it was ever announced which volume was the first to be "tamper-free."

Andy,

I don't believe it was ever announced either. I am certain that I have never heard or read of the specific volumes that were affected. Hmmm.

 

[Mark Collins]

Scott I did not know if you found the Clarice Blackburn interview but it is on the VHS tape 25. I could be wrong but she may be on Dark Shadows Behind the Scenes VHS tape in an expanded interview. I looked over all the Dvd collections and she is not listed. I thought she was but I guess I was wrong. I have the tape but I would have to dig it up to be sure. Let me know I can lay my hands on anything I put away. Remember I have the Old House Basement I am just jokeing of course. My house went up in 1986 so it isn't quite that bad. I would never be able to afford this house in these times. I know how lucky I am. Oh do you know what I refer to as the secret magic number of the Uninverse. The poor uneducated child did not understand Warlock. The episode of Barnabas powers even Julia comments on afterward is what I thought you were talking about.

 

[Ockeghem]

Mark,

Thanks a bunch for the information. I probably would have found it, but it's great that you knew where it was, which saved me some time.

The powers of Barnabas that I was speaking of had to do with his materialization and his ability to ward off bullets. Both were not seen until the second season, and when they were -- wow! These were such a revelation to me when I first saw them.

 

[smithb]

Unfortunately, I can't add to the focus of this thread, but since it is the most active Dark Shadows thread I just wanted to share something. I would have been somewhere between 5 and 11 when this was on, and while no one in my family watched it, I have a vague memory of the music, intro, and that foyer of the house. Most likely through channel surfing. So when I saw it on sale for such a good price I became intrigued. Scott was kind enough to provide some information that helped me decide to give it a try.

Now I am already somewhat familiar with the soap opera style of acting, sets, and pacing having gone through college in the Luke and Laura hayday of General Hospital. So I was prepared for that. Video quality was a bit of a concern in that I prefer to watch eveything on a larger screen in a dedicated room of the basement. All though having gotten into older classic TV I've learned to be more forgiving when the content is worth it.

So I decided to try it out by ordering just collection 1 (not beginnings), which I received this afternoon. This evening I watched the introduction and first 6 epsiodes. All the soap opera elements were there right down to how it easily pulled me in. The whole gothic angle is exceptional. And the video quality was much better then expected. All the studio shots were in great shape. The external non-studio shots were pretty bad but they are to infrequent to worry about. Oh and the actor playing Barnabas is perfect for the role.

Now I'm off to order collections two through four. I wish I could get more while at this price point, but I already far exceeded my so called TV DVD budget for the year. Here is hoping for another great sale next Falln to pickup on the next big story line.

 

[Ockeghem]

Brad,

Well, reading your post was wonderful. I'm so thrilled that you are getting into this series. Your third paragraph above had me smiling, and praising the show for the excellent product that it is.

Please add comments any time you wish. You're very apt to see many things that I (and maybe others) have yet to see in the series. Happy viewing!

BTW, participating in the Official 11th Annual HTF October Scary Movie Challenge (2010) has curtailed my viewing of Dark Shadows a bit. But I am still sneaking in a few episodes every now and then.

 

[GeorgeJA]

Had a long wait for the latest disc but I'm up to Episode 350 now.

Dr. Woodard's death was certainly offbeat. You had Julia trying to save him by trying stop Barnabas but also trying to get Woodard to join their cause and neither of them were playing her game. And why would they? Dave Woodard may have been a man of science but he was also a member of the community and couldn't abide to side with those that caused so much pain to people he cared about, and I don't think Barnabas would have trusted him anyway. It was a interesting triangle, though. I think Woodard deserved to live just for that ploy he tried. "Hey look, it's Sarah!"

I have to agree with Scott in that I am enjoying David's acting in these episodes. It comes across very natural to what he has gone through, and I like how when he finds out about Dr. Woodard's death, then he doesn't want anyone to believe him. His scenes with Carolyn were very well done in how they both showed that sibling bond they had for each other (and quite a long way from their cold relationship in the beginning). Carolyn's story about her childhood friend who she wasn't sure was real or not was interesting - only in Collinwood!

The results of Barnabas and his "treatments" was fun and MPI was wise to insert the Dick Smith interview on how he did the makeup for the aging scenes.

Bye Bye Burke - while we haven't seen the last of Anthony George just yet, no more Burke for us - seeing this show from the beginning (and Burke was smack dab right in the very first episode), I enjoyed the character very much, and I think it was a shame that it didn't work out with either actor.