Oasis "(What's The Story) Morning Glory" - some comments (1 Viewer)

[Michael_T]

I posted this on another board - but I will post it here also for those interested:

Whoops!!!! Sony messed up on this one. This is one clunker of an SACD. They take a very murky, muddled, compressed and overdriven mix and transfer it to DSD/SACD and voila! - you get a very murky, muddled, compressed and overdriven mix on SACD.
I have hundreds of SACDs and this one rates right down there with the Aerosmith "Just Push Play" SACD for one of the worst SACD releases by Sony yet.

I first listened to the MCH mix, and my first reaction was this "sucks". Basically they took the stereo mix and instead of creating a discrete sounding 5.1 channel mix, they took the 2-channel mix and spread it out over 5.1 speakers, with compression and digital "clipping" intact. Yes, at times there were the odd discrete sounding vocal coming from the center channel, or the sound of airplanes overhead, or even a sound effect or two in the rears - but, Ugh - the whole thing was a sonically tiring mess, IMHO. This MCH mix might rank right up there with the worst that Silverline has put out on DVD-A.

I took a rest, put on Johnny Cash "Silver" in MCH, and what a refreshing sound after the ear-bleeding mess that passed for an SACD MCH mix on the Oasis disc.

After the Johnny Cash was over, I listened to Oasis in stereo. Something just did not sit right. I have the redbook CD and have listened to it many times, but not recently - and I just had a hard believing that what I was listening to was an SACD. To preface anything else I may say - I believe the stereo mix on the SACD is preferable to the MCH mix. (It seems that echo and "fake sounding DSP" type production was performed on the MCH mix that just did not sit well with my ears.) I listened through all 50+ minutes of the SACD in stereo waiting for something to make me feel that my $19.99 was well spent since I already have the redbook version. That time never came. In fact I wholeheartedly believed that the CD never sounded this poor as the SACD does (in relative terms to most other SACDs). I had to get out my CD to compare.

What I am about to say I can't even believe I am going to say, but the CD is so much more listenable and enjoyable than the SACD. I didn't listen to the whole redbook CD, but I did listen to "Hello", "Wonderwall", "Morning Glory", and "Champagne Supernova" - and I actually had more "fun" listening to the CD. The CD, possibly because of it's "limited" resolution, wasn't as grating on the top end, where the SACD at times sounding as if it were ripping my speaker cones into shreds.

I, as much as the next SACD proponent, want to see SACD become the de-facto standard. But if SACDs like the Oasis "Morning Glory" album become the "standard" for compressed and overdriven digitally recorded pop/rock music - SACD doesn't stand a chance at premium prices.

Now let me pull out The Police "Regatta de'Blanc" - since that is how a pop/rock SACD should sound.

Sorry folks, I hate to be the bearer of bad news - but Oasis - "(What's The Story) Morning Glory" on SACD is "all thumbs down". Stick with the redbook version on this one.

 

[KeithH]

Mike, I saw your post on Steve Hoffman's board and responded there. I will be curious to here thoughts from others just because, but you may scare everyone off from buying this one.

Who is credited with mastering this title for SACD? It's too bad there is no way to run an SACD through Cool Edit. I'd love to see some of the folks on Hoffman's board analyze waveforms on this disc. Maybe someone will burn the SACD to a CD-R and analyze the resulting waveforms. I'm just curious about what's going on with the SACD relative to the CD.

 

[Michael_T]

Who is credited with mastering this title for SACD?

Here are the credits as they relate only to the SACD:

"Multichannel Mix by Neil Dorfsman"
"Assistant Mix Engineer: David Swope"
"SACD Authoring: Woody Pornpitaksuk"
"Mastering Engineer: Vlado Meller"

I, as you state, am afraid that I might scare everyone off from buying this SACD. Maybe I should have waited to post my impressions until after next week - once the disc hits all the usual spots.

I really hope that some other fool... I mean music lover might just buy this SACD for "Sh*ts and giggles" (as Austin Powers might say) just for comparison sake. I may not ever be wrong, but I am sometimes right.

 

[KeithH]

Michael, thanks for posting the credits. Frankly, those names mean nothing to me, though I do not portend to be well connected in the studio arena.

You said:

I, as you state, am afraid that I might scare everyone off from buying this SACD. Maybe I should have waited to post my impressions until after next week - once the disc hits all the usual spots.

Well, I don't fault you for sharing your views, even early in the game. Someone has to be the first to tell us that this disc sucks. Someone has to help divert our money elsewhere. Might as well be you.

Emil posted here in another thread that he has just received this SACD, so hopefully he will chime in here soon.

 

[Justin Lane]

Thanks for the heads up Michael. It looks like I will be saving some money on this one. Hopefully there will be a few other lab rats giving this a disc a test as well, and weighing in with their opinions.

This MCH mix might rank right up there with the worst that Silverline has put out on DVD-A.

This is my biggest fear about where multichannel may lead. As it becomes more and more of a selling point, there will be less time and resources available and we will see more of these artificial type mixes.

J

 

[Piers C]

Thanks Michael. I was really looking forward to hearing reviews of this version as I have the CD. Sorry to hear that this fell so short.

 

[MattCPT]

Thanks for the review. This was one of the new SACD releases that I was looking forward to, but I'll save my money instead. I often hope that someone involved in the production of these SACDs reads the posts on this forum and sees the disappointment they produce, so that they spend more effort on making a quality product.

 

[Jason_H]

What a pity. I always thought the production of the redbook WTSMG CD was lacking, I was hoping they would fix it for this release. I guess not. :frowning:

 

[KeithH]

Perhaps the masters for this recording are just awful.

 

[Emil Stoica]

So I finally got the chance to listen to this disc in both multi-channel and stereo. I am afraid that I agree with Michael for the most part.

The multi-channel mix does "suck". In my experience, this disc is more like the Gloria Estefan "Greatest Hits" multi-channel mix. No real balance. While occasionally there are things coming from the rears, we get some wierd noises coming from both the center and rears. The mix has no balance and seems to have been rushed. I know that multi-channel can work ("Heathen", "Sea Change", "3+3" all are great IMHO) but not in this way.

As for stereo, here I disagree a bit. Now, I will say I have not heard the CD since an old roomate has it on permanent borrow status. However, I do remember that the CD would never be regarded as a "top-notch" recording. So I think the SACD is a better representation of those masters. So, looking at it that way, the SACD's higher resolution does a disservice since it really shows how bad I think the masters are. Just shows again : garbage in = garbage out.

Also, I believe this disc has the misfortune of being released on the heels of the Police discs. For the most part, I have been very impressed with them (especially "Zenyatta Mondatta") and they all kick the arse of the Oasis disc.

So, unless you are an Oasis fanatic, I would skip this release and get some more Police discs or wait for those Peter Gabriel discs.

 

[KeithH]

Emil, thanks for the comments. I will go for the Police and Gabriel SACDs first.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

So, looking at it that way, the SACD's higher resolution does a disservice since it really shows how bad I think the masters are.

Bingo.

I think this is the real problem.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I first listened to the MCH mix, and my first reaction was this "sucks".

Michael,

I appreciate your comments. Can I make a modest suggestion?

Could you post your current playback system when you post a review so we can keep a level field?

Thanks!

 

[Michael_T]

Could you post your current playback system when you post a review so we can keep a level field?

Ok.

SACD Player - Sony XA777ES

Receiver/Amplifier - Sony DA5ES (using Pure Analog Direct mode for both MCH and Stereo).

Speakers - NHT 2.5 fronts, NHT 1.5 surrounds, NHT Audiocenter 2, Paradigm PDR-10 Sub.

Regardless of my system, which friends have told me, that have much more expensive equipment (tube based monoblocks and preamplifiers, Vandersteen speakers, etc.) than mine, my system sounds excellent, I feel I have very good ears. So I stand by my comments. 95% of the few hundred SACDs I own sound superlative to most other media - in the case of the Oasis disc, the SACD does not.

 

[John-Miles]

Well I will buy this disc anyway I believe.... I no longer ahve the cd, and i have been waiting to replace it.....

Just out of curiosity, are there any other Oasis discs on SACD? i remember hearing some roumors, but nothing solid.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

in the case of the Oasis disc, the SACD does not

It seems not to be a limitation of the format but differences in either the mastering or the poor quality of the original source tapes. It is entirely possible that the redbook's lower resolution helps to mask the poor sonics of the master tape.

 

[Emil Stoica]

Lee

If it helps, here is what I listened to this disc on:

SACD Player - Sony XA777ES

Pre-Amplifier - Bryston SP 1.7 (in direct mode)

Amplifier - Bryston 9B SST

Speakers - Polk RT2000i fronts, Polk RT1000i surrounds, Polk CS400i center, Polk PSW650 subwoofer.

Now I realize this is not the best of the best, but out of the almost 300 sacds I own, this one ranks right near the bottom.

For any review, that is what I use, Unless it is a stereo only SACD, where you can substitute the XA777 with my SCD-1.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Thanks Emil and Michael for listing your systems - always a good policy when making subjective comments on sonics.

 

[Al B. C]

I totally concur with the above negative comments about this disc.

It ain't very good, and probably fits in the "waste of money" catagory.

Oh yeah - I almost forgot........just to make sure I'm not listening on a boombox.

Pre-amp - Sunfire TG II
Amp - Sunfire Cinema Grand
SACD - Sony c555es
Front speakers - B&W Nautilus 802's
Center speaker - Klipsch RC 7
Surround - Polk RTi1000's

 

[andrew markworthy]

Perhaps the masters for this recording are just awful.

Well the CD sounds a mess, and I fear that 5.1 is just going to exaggerate the sonic inadequacies even more.
IMHO, WTSMG is one of those albums that sounds better over a cheap transistor radio than on a good hi-fi.