OAR is again in danger for HiDef (1 Viewer)

[Ed St. Clair]

I'm expecting a BIG jump in PQ from non-anamorphic 1.66:1 to 1.66:1 HiDef on a HD display.

Bring on Planet of the Vampires with LOSSLESS!!!
(The only widescreen non-anamorphic transfer in my DVD collection. And, I already like the PQ & SQ))

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Dee,

many "special effects" movies like T2 and Titanic "hard matted" the special effects sequences but not the live-action...so an "open matte" 4x3 or 16x9 version would involve some scenes that are adding picture to the top/bottom and some scenes that are cropping the L/R (the special effects scenes).

-dave

 

[DeeF]

Yes, I suppose that's true of big movies with special effects.

But, Gods and Monsters?

 

[george kaplan]

Don't know about that movie in particular, but it's certainly a problem in general to have unintended open matte (which may not be pan & scan, but is definitely MAR). You can see boom mikes, "naked" people wearing shorts, etc. In Willy Wonka for example, the open matte version revealed all kinds of things you weren't supposed to see.

 

[Mark-P]

I would agree that opening up the mattes of super-35 films to fit the HD 16x9 aspect ratio is somewhat less offensive than cropping movies shot in panavision with anamorphic lenses, I wouldn't really be happy if that became the norm for HD DVD. A lot of wonderful award-winning movies we all love could be affected. Consider the following examples of super-35 movies that we saw in theaters in 2.35:1 and on DVD in 2.35:1.

The Harry Potter series
Titanic
Apollo 13

I'm sorry, but they just wouldn't seem right in 1.78:1

 

[DeeF]

Again, I wouldn't want any 2.35:1 movies shown any other way, unless their director wanted it.

I was mostly advocating the malleable 1.66-1.85 films to be standardized at 1.77:1.

But I wouldn't want it if it involved cropping.

 

[Marko Berg]

What is this? Aspect ratios should be standardized (even if in a limited sense only) for home video? Stay away, DeeF and DaViD Boulet, you unholy J6Ps! Don't come any closer! I'm warning you!!

 

[DeeF]

I wish I sported a six-pack. I'm more... pear-shaped.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Again...I'm only talking about *director* approved *added* picture.

Wait a minute,

What am I saying? I've been seduced by the dark side!

Help me O-B-Wan...you're my only hope...

And I *used* to have a six-pack. Then I got too comfortable in my relationship and let the working-out slide...

 

[Mark Lucas]

Too bad there couldn't be a compromise and have discs that are really 16x9 full frame and have a subpicture track carry the black bars to matte the picture to it's correct ratio. This would only work with Super-35 and 1.85:1 matted films of course. Just a thought.

 

[Eric F]

It wouldn't work because matted films still have areas cut off at the sides (albiet less than cropped ones).

 

[Mark Lucas]

Huh? The disc would be 1.78:1/16x9 full frame. The mattes would cover up the bottom and the top. That's it.

 

[Eric F]

Matted films are still cropped a little at the sides after opened up.

If you're just going to put a black bar at the top and bottom, it totally screws everything up, especially on the FX shots that are often not even the same AR.

 

[Mark Lucas]

The 1.78:1/16x9 frame would be centered so that the mattes/bars would be in the right place. Effects shots that are wider than 1.78:1 would be presented properly but a panned and scanned 16x9 full frame version of the shot would be available thru seamless branching. Something like that. I think this is all doable with dvd now.

 

[DeeF]

So, Mark, you're idea is for an "optional" black letterbox? One could watch the film 16:9 full screen, or with an optional letterbox covering it top and bottom, representing the actual 1.85:1 ratio?

I think this is a brilliant idea, and should be done.

The letterbox would be very small (on my plasma, it's only about 1/2 inch of black area at the bottom).

 

[Mark Lucas]

2.35:1 films could be presented with these black bar overlays as well. It's just an idea. I'm pretty sure this has been toyed with before as the technology can be done with current dvd.

 

[Will_B]

Yup, optional black bars (created via the subtitle function) was a gimmic on the Bride of Reanimator DVD.

From www.mondo-digital.com/reanimator.html "...included in full frame, with an optional 'theatrical matte' option that superimposes black bars over the image to simulate 1.85:1 framing. In this case, this controversial technique works quite well for the most part, though studios might want to be careful using it in the future. The matte can easily be switched on and off simply by using the DVD remote's subtitle button."

It isn't a practical solution since directors often adjust which portion of the frame they want to use for their matted version.

Ultimately, we can only hope that directors will refrain from shooting in 2:35:1 anymore. That ratio worked for massive movie theatres but it doesn't work in people's homes.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

I hope NOT! Now, there is something in what you say about home viewing, but I do know a HTF member who has an Ultra-Panavision-ratio screen in his home, and can show Ben-Hur at full height. Now, TedD is a motion-picture projectionist and the son of a motion-picture projectionist, so he's not quite like us "regular people", but the truth is that different aspect ratios work better for different subjects and different directors. Honestly, 16:9 was chosen to make the least degree of compromise for Cinemascope and Academy films while accomodating the usual flat-widescreen processes in total convenience. I only wish that more theatres were equipped to show all three ratios! Most can't do Academy anymore… and I think that's a bad thing for artistic expression, and thus for the film industry and for the viewer. Honestly, I can watch STAR WARS on LaserDisc, letterboxed on a 19" TV, and it's good — not as good as it would be, projected in 70mm on a 50-foot screen, but good.

 

[Mark Lucas]

Be careful where you say that. Could be dangerous.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

That's entirely untrue. 2.35:1 works very well in home-theaters, even when "compromised" by reducing the height of the image in a constant-width 16x9 environment. Mechanical masking can remedy the black bars for serious viewers to produce stunning results.

And do keep in mind that as HT systems evolve, variable display aspect ratio will become more common and easier to accomplish, so those who want to attain the theater experience of "wider" 2.35:1 projection will be able to do so.