Now that all the "next-gen" systems are out,what is next for them??? (long)

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Calvin Watts III, Nov 25, 2001.

  1. Calvin Watts III

    Calvin Watts III Supporting Actor

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    Okay...
    After reading numerous info from mags,the internet,friends, & forums like here...this is what I'd like to know.
    I want to say first,that I don't want to have this degenerate into another "your system is better than mine" thread. I have been gaming for a long time,and I can tell you that almost every system that has ever been released has had something good to play on it.
    This is what I think on what I am hearing of the future of the PS2, Xbox, & the GCN.
    I'll start off with the Gamecube. While I love mine, I can completely understand where some of you are coming from,being disappointed about their launch lineup.
    Having said that,if there is one constant that has existed over the last 20 years,it is that Nintendo makes some damn good games. While some people think that Mario Sunshine is gonna be a rehash, & that Zelda is going to be bad because of its look... I say that Mr. Miyamoto has never made a bad game, & if there is anyone in this business who deserves the benefit of the doubt, it is him.
    Having said that,there has to be enough third-party companies that make games for the system for it to stay viable for a long period of time. I feel that it can,as long as Nintendo builds on its family name my making the GCN more appealing to everyone.
    Now,the Xbox...
    I want one. I want to play Halo..and Munch...and....then what??? While Microsoft has had some good games available at launch,a lot of them now and in the near future are rehashes...Here are some:
    • Genma Onimusha
    • Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2x
    • Metal Gear Solid 2x
    • Star Wars:Starfighter Sp.Edition
    • Silent Hill 2: Restless Dreams
    Just a few...and while I do admit that some of the new features interest me, they won't be at release for full retail price. And where is info on the future MS games??? What is coming out from them that would make people want to buy a system??
    At least Project Ego sounds really cool, & I want Shenmue II as well.
    Broadband,as of yet,is not still widespread. If they are just banking on online gaming to take off & be the biggest thing ever,it might just be a bit too soon for the mainstream.
    Bottom line: Microsoft is king...when it comes to PC software. They are newbies in the console videogaming world, & they need to be better & show more than the other guy. The Japan launch is going to tell us a lot of things about the Xbox's future, I think.
    As for the PS2...now what???
    MGS2 is here. Devil May Cry is too. As is almost all of the games that were the reason that I bought the system for. But again,what is next??
    At least the Xbox gives you the things you need to play online. Sony expects people to spend the extra cash on a HD,and a network adapter,in order to play online. Unless someone else sees something that I don't,simply banking that online gaming is going to take off and be the "big" thing is the wrong thing to do.
    My reasons for this are:
    1. What I said earlier about broadband.
    2. The fact that you have to pay to play
    3. Dispoable income can only be spread out so far...[/list=1]
      If the mainstream doesn't have broadband,then you have the "hardcore" gamers. Many of which play on a PC. How many people can afford to play online with a XBox,& PS2, & a PC?? (never mind the GCN...)
      These are my concerns,and concerns I've heard from some of my more knowledgeable customers...and remember, I'm looking at this from a Joe Gamer's family point of view, and not my own. In order for a gaming system to truly succeed nowadays, you have to be flexible.
      So what does it all come down to? Again,in my opinion,its what can I get on a system that I can't get on the others? How the companies convince,& get customers to buy their system...
      So,again, comments are most welcome (hopefully thoughtful ones).
      Just remember to try and look at the big picture...
      PS: Why is this important, you ask? Remember this....
      The GB is by far the best selling system ever...not because of its technical superiority,but because of two great games that have mass appeal: Pokemon & Tetris.
      And the Dreamcast is going to be huge this year..because you can get it, and the games - cheaply.
      Budgets do count....
      Sincerely,
      Calvin
     
  2. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Calvin-

    This fall, we got ICO, Time Crisis 2, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, Grand Theft Auto 3, Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid 2, and Devil May Cry. Is 5 great games in one season not enough for you or something? Considering there are other great games from the first year, you aren't giving it enough credit.

    And whats coming up is Final Fantasy X, Dynasty Warriors 3, Jak and Daxter, and other games that I didn't list (like the 2k2 games). The GameCube has Super Smash Bros. Melee next week, which is going to be a big title for Nintendo. MS really has the weakest games for this holiday season of the 3 consoles, though they aren't really that far behind the other two companies.
     
  3. AndyVX

    AndyVX Supporting Actor

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    Calvin, very good post! I own all three system and there are many games on each system that I want to get.

    You have though overlooked a main selling point of the PS2. That is RPG's! This is the only reason that I bought a PS2 was to play all the kick ass RPG's that will be coming out for it.

    Xenosaga

    Star Ocean III

    Grandia X

    Suikoden III

    Final Fantasy X

    Final Fantasy XI

    and possibly Lunar 3

    These games are enough to toally satisfy my purchase of the PS2. Now, if you're not a RPG player, then none of these games will matter, but if you are a RPG player then the PS2 is the way to go.
     
  4. Calvin Watts III

    Calvin Watts III Supporting Actor

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    Morgan,

    Remember I said both future prospects,not stuff coming out in the next month.

    Also, I mean the overall gaming scene,as looked at by a typical's family's point of view.

    Personally, I love my PS2,and I have already justified my purchase of it. But a mormal J6P simply thinks in general that the PS2 is last years model.

    Remember,information is everything.

    And Andy,yes I did over look some of the RPG's...

    Of course, not being the biggest RPG player doesn't help either.

    And FF X could be out this year...now that would be something...

    Calvin
     
  5. Jay_Sharp

    Jay_Sharp Stunt Coordinator

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    Oooh! ICO! Get it...Superb game! Almost a work of art, make sure you stay past the credits.

    I own all 3 systems, I'm a rabid gamer. (*pssst* I develop for Sony PS2). Now personally I could care less what way game content is delivered to me as long as it's painless and fun. But I've done extensive research and based on what I know (hardware, developers, retail network, company experience, upcoming game schedule) I would advise you to pick the PS2. Surprise? heh. Actually I'm pretty non-biased otherwise I wouldn't own the other systems, brand loyalty means nothing to me.

    Sony (and the PS2) has ended up owning mindshare in the public's eye. I believe they have replaced Nintendo. Sony has become synonmous with videogames, much like kleenex has become with tissues, Jello with gelatin. This is an extremely powerful and compelling point that people tend to forget when they are talking about whizbang graphics (heh I and I can talk about whiz bang graphics all day long).The other night, I was flipping channels and saw a sitcom where someone was yelling at someone offscreen to "get off that PLaystation and come to bed!" Product placement? maybe. But the fact is you don't put that in there unless you know a significant portion of your deomgraphic will understand it. That to me tells me the PS2 and SOny will win this round of systems wars with the JP6s.

    The fact of the matter is Sony has a 19 million unit headstart (actually it's more like 23 million...I'd say that's thew jp6er's voting right there.). The fact is the other systems have not made a quantum leap with their games or graphics compared to the PS2. The PS2 has twice as many titles shipping next year as Xbox. 4 times as many as Nintendo. Quantity over quality. Nope. With games like DMC, ICO, FFX, MGS2, Baldurs Gate DA there's plenty of AAA titles to keep even the most jaded of consolers interested.

    Sony will win. Nintendo will bring up a distant second with the family with kids in the 3-10 demograpohic and Xbox will be have the same fate as the Dreamcast. It doesn't matter if any system is better. That's not what it's about. It's about owning the public's mindshare.

    Go with the PS2. Sure you may miss a couple system seller type games such as Rogue Squadron, Mario, Zelda, Halo or Oddworld. If so rent the system at BLockbuster or Hollywood Vid. But if you go single system, the PS2 is safe investment. You won't regret it.
     
  6. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Or you could just buy more than one console and be even happier.
     
  7. Jay_Sharp

    Jay_Sharp Stunt Coordinator

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    Although that's what I do...that's not always an option for every family to spend a $1000 on game systems (not including games).
     
  8. Calvin Watts III

    Calvin Watts III Supporting Actor

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    Someone please tell me why I bothered????
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Mike_G

    Mike_G Screenwriter

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    Jay,

    I'm sorry, but you're looking at the PS2 with rose colored glasses.

    I own all three systems. That said...

    The whole "Playstation on TV" issue is just that-product placement. The XBox was on Will & Grace last week. Did you know that?

    The games for the PS2 can be just as bad as on any other console. "The Bouncer" anyone (from the creators of Final Fantasy. Ooooohhh)? Dark Cloud (what a terrible game)? Crash Bandicoot-The Wrath of Cortex (same as CB 2 and 3, just prettier)? Quanity or quality? I say a little of both, but there are much less "rated 10" games for the PS2 than there are games rated, say, 7 or less. Read PS2 mag or OPSMag and see for yourself how many 5's and 6's they give out.

    There's nothing wrong with the PS2, but I think your predictions of the future are way off. The XBox suffer the same fate as the DC? So you're saying that MS's marketing and research is as bad as Sega's? No way. If you had "inside information" you'd know that the XBox was built SPECIFICALLY to work with DirectX (the 'X' in XBox). This proves to be a SUBSTANTIAL advantage over the other consoles since a lot of game developers develop for the PC (using DX 8) and therefore already understand how to develop for the XBox. If you want to woo game developers (read: PC game developers) to your console, and you don't want them to learn from scratch, the XBox is the PERFECT platform.

    Not trying to jab at you, but it seems like there are too many people that know "everything" about the console wars, but still look at things from only one angle.

    Mike
     
  10. Jay_Sharp

    Jay_Sharp Stunt Coordinator

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    No, I'm sorry but I'm not looking at this with rose colored glasses, I've clearly stated I don't care how the games are delivered to me. I'm not brand-oriented in the least evem though I work for Sony. If a console has a game I want to play, I buy it. That does not make me Joe Consumer.
    When I bring up the point that PS2 ships alot more titles is that you're inevitably going to appeal to a larger demographic and thereby ship more units than Xbox, which is weak on childrens games, and Nintendo which is weak on adult games. Yes they both have a few of each category but both need to severly diversify and strengthen their upcoming product lineups.
    I know people who work on about every current game platform and the general consensus within the game industry (from the devs not fanbois on some game site or just as bad, at gaming magazines) is pretty much what I said. XBox is the new Dreamcast, better graphics but to a consumer not savvy enough to notice at price that makes them balk. Don't get me wrong I want the Xbox and GC to do well, competition is good IMHO. I think too often we use ourselves as barometers for J6P when it just doesn't work. Just as aside, several devs I know who work on two different Xbox teams said they are just trying to establish their companies so they can move up to PS2 (they were transitioning themselves from PC to consoles). Oh that "inside info" about the Direct X? Yes...pretty much common knowledge there mate.
    So if you feel my predictions are "way off?" What are your predictions? [​IMG]
    Let's revisit this topic in 3 years? I stand by my opinions.
    That being said anyone notice how much the redesigned Link (From Zelda)now looks like Herbie the Dentist elf fromm Rudolph? heh
    PS: And yes Project Ego and Morrowind looks great. [​IMG]
     
  11. jehelems

    jehelems Auditioning

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    I have to agree with Mike. There's just no comparison between Dreamcast and Xbox. Many at Sega realized long ago that they would be better off giving up on the money-losing hardware business, and applying their tremendous game-making talent across the board. The Dreamcast was a half-hearted, last gasp driven by a faction a Sega that refused to believe they couldn't make another Genesis.
    Love him or hate him, Gates is not half-hearted about his Xbox. His billion-dollar gamble seems to be a sure-bet upon first playing Halo and DOA3. There has simply never been TWO launch titles this solid since Combat and Pong. DOA3 has graphics that greatly exceed the capability of any system in the forseeable future. Halo has the graphics, control, and depth of a 2nd or 3rd generation title. (I shudder to imagine actual 2nd & 3rd generation Xbox titles.)
    I know this hyperbole rings of fanboy talk, but to be sure I had pre-ordered every system since Jaguar, EXCEPT for Xbox. I had assumed the American market could only support 2 consoles, and that Xbox would be odd man out. Only when I played Halo at a kiosk, did I realize I had to have one.
    The ace in the hole for Xbox is its built-in hard drive and broadband jack. Can you imagine what the ability to download new levels, charcters, rosters, etc. will add to console gaming? Already I am spoiled by the lightning-quick loading times (now I can barely stomach firing up the PS2.) There's a lot of untapped potential with the hard drive that game designers are reported licking their chops to take advantage of.
    Sure the PS2 has a hard disk drive PERIPHERAL supposedly in the works, but it is doomed to follow the path of the 32X if not the N64 DD. Game developers develop for the lowest common denominator of the installed base. This creates the catch-22 of gamers not buying peripherals until there are good games for it, and developers not making good peripheral-based games until enough gamers who own the peripheral.
    But don't take my word for it, just ask president and CEO of Sony, Kunitake Ando. Speaking to Financial Times, he conceded concern about the Xbox's capabilities and that Sony may bring out the PS3 two years earlier than planned. Check out the report at http://consolewire.com/news/item.asp?nid=2120.
     
  12. Camp

    Camp Cinematographer

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  13. Jason Harbaugh

    Jason Harbaugh Cinematographer

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    I think that alot of people are blowing MS off a bit hastily. For one thing they have stated that they won't profit from the xbox right away. Infact it could be five years before they turn a profit and they might be on xbox2 by that time. Also MS isn't stupid when it comes to marketing. They know their audience and they have and will spend the dough to make sure that everyone in their audience knows the xbox name. This also isn't the only device that MS is bringing to the living room. They have their tivo unit and they are making a HTPC as well. The other thing they have is support from a whole shlew of game developers and a gaming platform that is relatively easy to design for. Lastly they have a great product. It performs like they said it would although we have yet to see the 1080i action, and the games at launch are quite impressive.
    To compare the xbox with the DC isn't even worth arguing about. They don't compare. The DC failed because sega failed in advertising and game developers weren't as supportive. They made the wise descision of going game only designer. A $500 million advertising budget isn't something that sega had at their disposal.
    I think in the long run we will have three survivors in the console universe.
    Console 1: PS2 already has a solid foot in the door with having a year headstart and a lot of back library ps1 games to feed the PS2.
    I didn't buy one because it didn't impress me at all at launch and I continued to enjoy my PC gaming experience.
    Console 2: Nintendo definately has the younger crowd and the $100 less price point will definately make parents think twice about which console they buy for their kids.
    I won't buy one because ever since N64 I haven't like the graphics of nintendo games. They all look way too cartoonish to me and I got sick of Mario 8 years ago.
    Console 3: Xposure. The xbox is getting alot of exposure. The console itself is rock solid. The graphics are superb and backed by the #1 pc graphics company nVidia. The console also brings in new features like a harddrive and the ability to have custom soundtracks and not waste money on memory cards etc etc. DVD playback (although I won't ever use) is a popular feature and could turn some parents towards it instead of a GC. Game support is also very strong for this new console and that is ultimately what keeps a console alive.
    After selling my PS1 4 years ago after only having it 6 months, this was the first console that interested me. Reasoning was the DD sound, nvidia graphics, 480p in all games, 1080i support (hopefully), 16x9 support, harddrive, pleasant looking (fits in with my HT equipment) and some very cool games at launch and coming down the pike.
    So as you can see I think all three consoles have their respective market. I would like to see all three survive because this does lead to competition and better games. Like someone said before, let's have this conversation in 3 years. [​IMG]
     
  14. MathewM

    MathewM Stunt Coordinator

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    No offense Jay, but you sound just like a Sony fanboy. And an annoying one at that. "Just buy my system, because you know it's the only one that will be around next year"....UUUGGGGHHH! You and Morgan should chat.

    The Dreamcast was a good system, and it sold well, just not well enough. The Dreamcast's fate lies soley on it's maker. Sega, while a great software design company was lousy at marketing...and keeping to their promises on releases. Last year, I passed on a playstation 2 because of Shenmue. This year I'm passing on an Xbox because I'm going to import Shenmue 2.

    I've almost been sucked into the hype machine of new system releases a few times, but then I regain my sanity and hold out until there's actually several games that I genuinely want.

    To keep with the point of the topic: I like the Xbox (though not because of the M$ name) but because it's the most advanced system. I know microsoft won't dump it like Sega did with the Dreamcast because its not Gates' style. Microsoft won't be bleeding red in the foreseeable future. They'll have the money and hopefully the audacity to get interesting developers such as Bungie, Sega, Looking Glass (Thief was great) Origin (if they're even a company anymore, I'd love to play an Ultima that doesn't crash) to jump on board and use the advanced tech. to their advantage. I'll wait to purchase though. If only Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Shenmue 2 were coming out now....
     
  15. Jay_Sharp

    Jay_Sharp Stunt Coordinator

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    "No offense Jay, but you sound just like a Sony fanboy."

    No offense, Matt you sound like a troll.

    Actually I am offended...this is the third time in this thread that I've stated I don't care really which system wins. I predicted Sony. But do I care? No.

    "And an annoying one at that."

    Nice, so you have to resort to personal pot shots? Look I don't agree with you Matt. Get over it. And I'll not stoop to a personal cheap insult level.

    "Just buy my system, because you know it's the only one that will be around next year"....UUUGGGGHHH! You and Morgan should chat.

    I didn't say any of these systems would be gone in a year. Not once. Tell you me... are you another board skimmer who is so interested in getting his point across that you ignore or make up things that the poster said. Seems to be a common issue with people nowadays. And when did the PS2 become "my" system? I just said I've dev'ed for them.

    "Last year, I passed on a playstation 2 because of Shenmue. This year I'm passing on an Xbox because I'm going to import Shenmue 2."

    Once again another person using themselves as the barometer for everyone. I did this so everyone else must be doing the same thing.

    -sigh-

    "To keep with the point of the topic: I like the Xbox (though not because of the M$ name) but because it's the most advanced system."

    I like the XBox too from a feature point. But the average consumer does not care about what is the most advanced system. They're just not that knowledgable. If they were we wouldn't be reading endless complaints about

    Walmart not stocking Widescreens because of J6Ps.
     
  16. pitchman

    pitchman Screenwriter

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  17. Alex Spindler

    Alex Spindler Producer

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    I have doubted in the past that there can be serious support for three systems, but who here is going to fall? I don't think the PS2 will. It really is a household name now, and doesn't have any negative stigmas attached to it. It really has the games, and they don't feel limited in the least. I mean, if Sony wants to sell an extra million of them, they just have to setup kiosks with GTA3 and say "Get it only on the PS2 this holiday season". The upcoming library seems chock full of other potential hits (FFX, Maximo, Virtua Fighter 4, Soul Caliber 2, Tenchu 3, and a host of 2002 sports games and other RPG sequels). Add to that all of the multiplatform titles. It is however, the weakest and oldest system.

    Will it be the XBox? If their followthrough is strong, I couldn't see how. By that I mean, if they continue to throw out titles that differentiate themselves from the competition. They've got Panzer Dragoon and Project Ego, but the rest seem to be multiplatform releases. And I don't think any of them hold a candle at saying "You'll never be able to play this on the other systems". Unfortunately, I think that their ability to court game developers gave them a slate of games already slated for release on the other systems, and not enough exclusive content. The online factor could be a real selling point, but the number of broadband houses is around 5 million or so (1 in 20 at the end of 2000), which will only be higher each year. Of course, will they pay to make their XBox online when they are already paying a cable/DSL bill? Good question, and a key one. Perhaps the VPN solution will sidestep the official XBox launch with a downloaded hack to a lobby server of some kind. It's a real possibility, and one that could put a dent in any game systems online plans. I think the real key for the XBox is going to be playing up it's strengths and getting the exclusive games. Sony and Nintendo have plenty in their camps.

    The Gamecube is next, and has many of the elements needed to succeed. They have a lower price, as well as a load of exclusive content with their in-house, Rare, and Resident Evil releases locked up. Parents don't balk at the price and see all kinds of varied content. Their quality over quantity will only succeed if they maintain the quality and keep their lowered output at a constant trickle. Avoiding a dry spell is also key. But they may find themselves limited by their media. I don't think they could fit a release like Diablo II on one disc, and they won't be able to play the "Also plays DVD movies" card either. But Nintendo has so much credibility and still hasn't fumbled with their official releases that I still have a lot of faith.

    Maybe we can see a holy triumvirate. If the economy was as it was a year ago, I would have believed that many could afford to have three consoles. But now, that may not hold any water. But I can't point out many flaws in any of the systems. The PS2 is already successful. Both the XBox and GCN launched with some really nice titles (Halo being the real winner of them all). The GCN has some nice exclusive content. The Xbox has a alot of games coming out, even if few of them are exclusives, meaning that single system owners will have plenty to purchase and play.

    I just don't see any of them failing.
     
  18. Jay_Sharp

    Jay_Sharp Stunt Coordinator

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    The PS2 sells successfully at $299. It may have less features but if the consumer is willing to pay for it why lower the price? Yes the Xbox has more features for the same price. So what? It's not the way things work in the retail market. Market ownership. Household name.

    You know, I'm preaching to saved here...but let me saying this again. The people on this forum are the minority of consumers. You do not make up the demographic that comprise the large majority of Walmart shoppers. You are all too technically savvy. And you are making the mistake of using yourself as the barometers.

    "DD 5.1 surround sound, 8 gig hd, built-in broadband, etc."

    These things do not matter to most console buyers. They really don't. Too the hardcore and technically savvy they sure do. Can you see Mrs. Soccer Mom buying her 15 year old son a XBox because it is broadband ready? Unlikely.

    What percentage of the world's console players have broadband? or even a 5:1 system? How many games devs are going to utilize the HD feature for downloading levels when most of their customers don't even have access to broadband.

    BTW, many studies show successful widespread broadband console gaming is still at least 5 years away. A friend of mine who works at a large metropolitan cable company says that less than 7% of their users have broadband and it's not growing. Cnet had a bunch reports about that very thing. Kinda sad but the truth is most people could care less about broadband.

    These are all great when ticking off the feature list...but in actual usage most likely will be untouched by the masses. We're the minority.
     
  19. pitchman

    pitchman Screenwriter

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    Jay, I think you missed the point...

    You say the $299 sticker price is a stumbling block for the Xbox, but have no problem with Sony charging the same amount for less capable hardware. Sony has clearly demonstrated (at least in the U.S.) that a $300 price-point works, so, I don't think your argument is valid. That's the point I was trying to make.

    Speaking as an owner of both systems, Microsoft gives you a LOT more hardware for your $300 than Sony. Whether j6p will ultimately give a damn one way or the other, remains to be seen...

    Gary
     
  20. MathewM

    MathewM Stunt Coordinator

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    Jay,

    I suppose I should of stated that I was paraphrasing a qoute that was not directly related to you, but fanboys in general. However, your posts have clearly shown a sony bias. We already know that the PS2 is a hugely successful system and we know why....you don't need to spoon feed it to us. The topic header however is "Now that all the "next-gen" systems are out, what is next for them???" not "Which system is going to fail???".

    Why you're argueing for a system's demise confuses me. If the Xbox fails, so be it, but let things play out.

    p.s. try not to sound like such a know-it-all, it's not becoming.
     

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