NOTHING LIKE THE SUN (DTS) - Is it a DTS CD or a DVD-A?

Paul.S

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Howdy guys:
As ya'll may know, there is a DTS Entertainment, Inc. (re-)release of Sting's 1987 album ". . . Nothing Like the Sun." Although it is packaged in a Super Jewel case like WEA and other DTS DVD-Audio releases, there is no labeling on the package to indicate that the disc features an MLP track and that the disc is thereby indeed a DVD-A, instead of simply a DTS CD packaged in a Super Jewel. (Further sauce for this slightly confused goose is the fact that two other Sting albums--Brand New Day and Ten Summoner's Tales--have been released as DTS CDs.)
Since, as of this writing, DTS has not seen fit to list their DVD-A releases at their Website, I would like to know if this disc is a DTS CD or a DVD-A.
Anyone?
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Paul
 

Vegas 1

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David there are DVD-A in dts, if you have the latest Widescreen Review mag ther are 8 titles on the back cover.
Al
 

Vegas 1

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Paul the Sting disc is a cd which I have, since it plays in my laserdisc player just fine it has to be a cd.
Al
 

Dave F

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Al, I don't receive that mag. Would you mind posting the titles?
Thanks,
-Dave
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KeithH

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Dave, I was in a Tower Records store in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, yesterday, and they had a pamphlet from DTS listing many of their CDs, and all of their DVD-Audio discs. Unfortunately, I didn't pick it up. If you have a Tower in your area, you may want to look for it in the DVD-Audio/SACD section.
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Paul.S

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Dave, Al et al.:
Thanks very much for the replies guys.
quote: Out of curiousity, what has DTS released on DVD-A?[/quote]
Although the reviews are not the most technically or musically literate, here's a link to a DVD site that has reviewed several of DTS' DVD-A offerings:
http://www.dvdanswerman.com/dvd/dtscdhome.html
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Cheers,
Paul

[Edited last by PaulSuarez on August 26, 2001 at 12:13 PM]
 

Daniel L

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Just to answer the damn question it is not DVD-Audio, just DTS CD. (Whoops... must have been asleep at the swtich.)
Daniel L
[Edited last by Daniel L on August 26, 2001 at 05:24 PM]
 

John Welch

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Although I understand your point, I have to play devil's/Pacino's advocate and make the point that, if the disc was a DTS DVD-A, it would include a DTS track which you would be able to play in an LD player with a digital output.
This is simply not true for several technical reasons. There is no laserdisc player that will even load a DVD-A disc, DTS or otherwise.
 

Paul.S

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Daniel, John et al.:
Just to answer the damn question it is not DVD-Audio said:
John, perhaps I am mistaken (partly given that my comment above is based upon educated conjecture not personal experience) but, in the same way that
a) my DVD-Video player will load Warner/Elektra/Asylum DVD-Audio discs and play back the Dolby Digital track thereon; and
b) given that DTS CDs feature PCM-encoded DTS, they can be played back on any transport (CD, LD or DVD) that passes a DTS bitstream (via its digital output; and I understand that DTS CDs' PCM encoding differs from the encoding scheme used on DTS DVDs),
it's therefore my understanding that one could load a DTS DVD-A disc into an LD player, the LD player would ignore the DVD-A content (the same way my DVD-V player does) and play back the DTS track on the disc. This goes to part of the reason DTS is including a DTS track on their DVD-A discs: backward compatibility.
Not unlike DVD-V players, I think an LD player can play back the DTS track on a DTS DVD-A, just not the MLP track. Is this not your understanding based upon experience? If not, what are some of the other technical reasons you refer to for this not being true?
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Paul
 

David Ely

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If not, what are some of the other technical reasons you refer to for this not being true?
Because DVD-A is a DVD and not a CD. The LD player is unable to read a DVD. The DD/DTS tracks are placed on DVD-A disks for people who don't have a DVD-A capable DVD player.
 

Philip Hamm

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PaulSuarez,
I have no idea where your information comes from, but it's totally incorrect. There are five LD player models that can read a DVD: The Pioneer "DVL" series, 700, 909, 919, 90, and 91. These are combination players and will run DVD-Video only. On DVD-Audio discs with DVD-Video capability these are readable. If there is a DTS track, only the 919 and 91 can play that (and some 909s that are modified).
DTS CDs however, can be played by any machine capable of playing CDs with a digital output, including most modern LD players.
And, the Sting disc is just a DTS CD. I have all three of the Sting DTS CDs and the Police one and I really like them all.
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Philip Hamm
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John Welch

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Not unlike DVD-V players, I think an LD player can play back the DTS track on a DTS DVD-A, just not the MLP track. Is this not your understanding based upon experience? If not, what are some of the other technical reasons you refer to for this not being true?
For one thing a laserdisc and a DVD player use an entirely different laser assembly that varies in spot size and focal length. The laserdisc uses the same type of laser as a CD player. The DVD player uses a more refined version of the same red laser. The only reason that a DVD player will play a CD is that it has 2 lasers, one for CD playback and one for DVD playback or it re-focuses the laser for DVD and CD playback. The laserdisc player can do neither.
The other major reason has to do with the pit size on LD, CD, and DVD, with the DVD pits being much smaller and the track pitch much smaller. How else to cram 4.8 Gb onto a disc the same size as a CD?
 

Philip Hamm

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The laserdisc uses the same type of laser as a CD player. The DVD player uses a more refined version of the same red laser
Actually this is technically incorrect. LD uses a different wavelength laser than CD. The LD laser specwise is actually much closer to that of DVD than CD. LD/CD combo players have to refocus and change the laser just like DVD/CD players do. And LD/DVD/CD players are even more complicated.
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Philip Hamm
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Paul.S

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John et al.:
For one thing a laserdisc and a DVD player use an entirely different laser assembly that varies in spot size and focal length. . . . The other major reason has to do with the pit size on LD said:
Ahh yes--it's all coming back to me now.
I stand corrected. I neglected to bear in mind, although both DTS' DVD-As and DTS CDs feature PCM-encoded DTS data, DVD-A's variable bit rate means that the laser of a dedicated LD player is not of the proper wavelength to read that content. (Looks like the shelf life of my DTS CDs will be a little bit longer than I had thought when I first read of DTS' entry into the DVD-A fray.)
Thanks very much for the technically-specific response, John. It seems to me that, when discussing player/disc (in)compatibility issues, it is important to keep the way various discs are encoded foremost in mind, not simply what format (LD, CD or DVD) the disc is. Simply saying that an LD player doesn't play DVDs seems facile to me given not only--as Phil referenced--the existence of combination players, but also because we're entering a more complicated software universe in which discs can (theoretically) be played in players in which they don't "belong." The most obvious example is this (fixed rate?) PCM encoding of DTS CDs that enables them to be played back on any player with a digital out. There's the "backwards compat" of WEA and DTS DVD-A product to DVD-V players via DD and DTS. Although no one is doing it, there's no reason a Red Book layer could not be put on a DVD-A. There's also no reason that a DSD bitstream could not be put on a DVD-A.
Pulling this post back to the original topic, I'm wondering why DTS chose to, in my opinion, muddy the packaging waters by releasing a DTS CD (heretofore always released in jewel boxes) in a Super Jewel instead . . . right at the time they start releasing their line of DVD-As . . .
Cheers,
Paul
 

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