Normal CD player and Receiver 5.1 inputs

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Martin Rendall, Jul 17, 2002.

  1. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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    I couldn't find anything on this topic with search, which surpised me, since this seems like a good idea to me.

    I don't have SACD or DVD-A, so my 5.1 analog inputs are free on my Yamaha receiver.

    What I want to do is hook my CD player's L/R analog outs to the Main L/R 5.1 inputs on my receiver, thereby avoiding the whole bass management aspect for music.

    The benefits:

    1. Want to run music with LARGE mains, but HT with SMALL mains. Switching though the menu is a pain, and there's always the likelihood that I'll forget and leave it in the wrong setting.

    2. Without bass management, the signal should be cleaner between the CD player and the AMP. Given that Yamaha receivers aren't exactly an audiophiles pre-amp of choice, getting the signal as clean as possible should be my goal.

    I know that I could use the normal CD inputs in the receiver and click the "processor direct" button, but that doesn't defeat the bass management.

    Now the question: is it safe to plug the CD analog out into the L/R Mains of the 5.1 input? Is it the same voltage, etc, etc, etc?

    Thanks,
    Martin.
     
  2. Rob Rodier

    Rob Rodier Supporting Actor

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  3. James Bergeron

    James Bergeron Supporting Actor

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    Yeah that would work, I actually use the 5.1 outputs of my dvd-player rather than the 2 channel out I find they sound better, could by my imagination. Anyway, I have the same problem Denon 4800 uses bass management on the other ports, but I think Direct turns it off.
     
  4. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

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    I do the same thing as James. The H/K 510 has no 'source direct' only tone in/out. So I use the '6 channel direct' and choose whether to run subless or not by changing the DownMix setting on the player. Generally I run Large with no Sub but for some reason I don't quite fathom when the sub IS in the mix I have to max the receiver sub output to hear anything from it.
     
  5. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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    Tried it out. Seems to work, except that I'm not convinced that it isn't still going though part of the bass management circuitry. It definitely ignores the LARGE/SMALL setting for the mains and doesn't route any signal to the sub, but I still get audio drops when playing around with the bass management settings while using the 5.1 inputs.

    Martin.
     
  6. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Martin, I read your post this week and gave this a try on my Pioneer VSX-D811S receiver. I have the same problem as you which is we want to play cds without the sub and to do it I have to set the Mains to Large. Not too difficult really but one has to always remember to switch it back for movie viewing. Anyhow, it seems the Pioneer doesn't do any bass management whatsoever for the 7.1 analog inputs. The sub was off using the 7.1 L/R front inputs, tonal controls were off, all DSP modes were non-functional - about all one could do is adjust the volume and the channel levels. My main problems with using this setup are that the music sounded thin and lacking bass and to get to the dvd analog 7.1 input setting requires choosing 'dvd' input and then choosing the proper 'signal select' to switch the 'dvd' input to its 7.1 analog setting - i.e. there is still an extra step involved which you would have to remember to undo when switching over to movie watching. I've decided to stick with the switching of the fronts from L to S. What I would like in a receiver is simply an option that still allows DSP/tonal controls but just eliminates the sub from the equation since we have a multi-room setup but the sub is only in one room [​IMG] I'd like to be able to leave the cd input in this mode by default so nothing in the menu needs to be switched in order to view movies correctly.
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  7. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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    Thomas,

    Sorry to hear it didn't work out. The Yamaha has a 6 channel input button, which overrides any other settings, so it's very easy to use. I have definitely noticed a huge improvement in soundstage when I go to the direct inputs.

    Regards,
    Martin.
     
  8. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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    hmmm, might play with this.
     
  9. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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    Bill,

    With the 6CH selected, it doesn't matter whether MAINs are on LARGE or SMALL. Nor does it matter if BASS/LFE is set to SWFR/MAINS/BOTH. It's all overridden.

    But to be clear, EFFECTS OFF + MAINS=LARGE + BASS/LFE=whatever + "Processor Direct" is NOT as good as 6CH direct, at least for me.

    I'm using a Y interconnect so I can route my CD player to both the CD inputs and the 6CH L/R, so I can switch between them easily.

    Martin.
     
  10. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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    I plugged my CD cables into the 6CHL main inputs today and it works great. My spkrs are 8 1/2 ft apart and I get the same stereo imaging, but the soundstage seems to be unaffected, tho I think this depends on the music source. My floorstanders are rated +/-2 dB to 46Hz, so I do miss some of that sub punch.

    I dont know where there might audio dropouts, but of course I'm not lookin' for 'em. I found the Yamaha tone controls really came "alive" in this mode from whereever they were in the chain before.

    I think I'll invest in some Ys to emulate your CD hookup path, Martin. (That will restore 5-Chl Stereo too.) Did you ponder if there might anything deleterious this "Y" way? Like we're advised not to "Y" separate SACD and DVD-A units to the 6Chl inouts?

    bill
     
  11. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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    Bill,

    The audio drops I was referring to where only at the moment when switching bass mgmt settings. You should notice the effect with any source selected. I wasn't referring to a problem with the receiver. But I did find it odd that the 6ch inputs also did it, since one hopes that all the BM circuitry is bypassed. Maybe it isn't...

    I posed the question about loss with the y cable, and the answer seemed to be that splitting from 1 to 2 is fine, but not 1 to 3 or more, nor 2 to 1.

    I understand your point about the loss of some bass. It makes me want to get an external sub crossover - a nice analog one which won't suffer the effects which the Yamaha exhibits. Maybe one day. Maybe there's a nice DIY design somewhere...

    Are you saying that the 6ch inputs go through the tone controls? If so, I didn't realize that. I'll have to give it a try.

    Martin.
     
  12. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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    ...resisting now going to an ICBM, Paradigm X-30 or BFD equalizer...

    LOL
     
  13. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Martin, I'm not sure about Yamaha but when I tried this on my Pioneer, the tone controls were definitely disabled (bass, treble) as was my Midnight/Loudness control - and of course, no sound was coming from the sub so I know the bass management seemed to be turned off as well. I'd be surprised if the Yamaha allowed bass/treble to be tweaked with the 5.1/6.1 analog inputs.


    --tom
     
  14. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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  15. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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    The tone controls work through 6ch with mine, too. Actually, that's pretty cool, since it can be bypassed. More options. Maybe I'll get rid of the CD input after all.

    Martin.
     
  16. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    Bill, that is quirky. What is most quirky about all of this 5.1/6.1 analog input stuff is how none or very little of it is documented in the receiver manuals. I personally wish my Pioneer would let me do the tone controls as well as the Midnight/Loudness/Direct settings. In other words, I'd just like an option that ignored the sub only [​IMG] For now, I'll keep remembering to toggle the fronts from S to L when playing cds (and of course, remembering to switch it back for movies! [​IMG] )
    cheers,
    --tom
     
  17. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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    I think Martin, if I may speak for him, envisions the absolutely most analog direct with least, if any, finagling to the signal. Thus, he sees that Yamaha's Processor Direct button bypasses any tone control path. But I don't hear a critical degradation with tone ctrls enabled. Like Martin says, an option.

    I had to run over the RatShack and get two Y connectors, and now what's really neat is I can sit in the chair while the CD is playing and A/B toggle between 6CHL analog with spkrs playing full range (for the first time in my system listening) and standard bass management CD > Mains SMALL > SVS Sub.

    I find bass in the "standard" mode more smooth (hey, it's a 12-incher) while full range spkr bass more in your face, but nothing bloated or distorted. Just different.

    bill
     
  18. ThomasL

    ThomasL Supporting Actor

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    The more I think about it, I believe what I really want is simply a way to save configuration settings on a per input basis. I'd like to run the dvd input with the sub - fronts set to small - but the cd input without the sub with the fronts set to Large. Being someone who works in the software and computer systems arena, I've become spoiled by customization [​IMG] It doesn't seem like it would be too hard for receiver manufacturers to do this. NVRAM isn't as expensive as it was in the old days.
    cheers,
    --tom
     

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