No sound from 16-46+ (1 Viewer)

[Mark_R]

I have an Onkyo 787 and it doesn't have a problem. I think I did wind up w/ a bad amp that will have to be replaced, but before it went AWOL it was sounding awesome.

 

[Rick Radford]

Thomas,

BetterCables connect to input 1 on the S1000 (in stereo mode)

I believe the fix is simple in your case. Move the input to #2 when you use the stereo position of the Samson. If you use input #1, the switch must be in parallel (and, you're ready to add a 2nd SVS to input #2 as well!)

This is what I found on my S700 when trying to sort out Conrad's equipment problems.

 

[Troy Madlem]

Joel,
I just posted this over in the thread at HTSpot. I'm running into what appears to be the exact problem with my new CS-Ultra sub. I have a Denon 4800 mated up with a Parasound 1201A monoblock to push it. Even with the sub-out level calibrated at +12dbs I still don't get any bass output until my volume is up darn near reference levels. I've tried swapping cables, switching the phase of the wiring, checked the dynamic compression and peak limiter settings in the receiver all to no avail.
Based on some advice from Tom, I'm convinced my problem has to be a low signal input. Combine the low output level from my Denon to the 33k input impedence of my amp and I'm stuck with a CSU that puts out less bass than my RF-7 towers! Tom has been great to work with and I have no doubt we'll all get this straightened out, I just hope it happens soon! It's bad enough waiting for that big brown truck to pull up to my door, let alone to have that big beast of a sub sitting in my corner making only a whimper.

 

[Barry BB]

Point of clarification please? Will SVS's recommendation be for all Denon owners to use the Marchand gain stage. My 20-39+ seems to be putting out some good bass but if Denon's output impedance is rating low maybe I should get one just to be sure?

 

[SVS-Ron]

It's certainly too soon to say anyone, much less everyone with a Denon or any receiver need anything of the sort. Most customers with Denon's are clearly getting all the input to the Samson it needs.

Others apparently not. That's the bottom line. If you are able to get a calibrated level (with a sound meter) that is providing the impact you are expecting then there is little reason to second guess that things are working correctly. It may well turn out that some receivers in the Denon or Onkyo line might be out of spec too, and it's not like any of these companies are going to be real forthcoming on this "problem"; one they may not have every seen themselves. So have patience, we're working it.

Less than a half dozen folks (we're well into triple digits on our first month shipping the Plus sub) so if there is an issue with a few setups (and we're certainly not questioning the sanity of those that seem to have an issue) then it's an isolated one.

With some many variables in a given receiver/subwoofer setup we're hesitant to say what solution, if any is worth further exploration.

As Tom indicated there are several options we're looking at in real-time (as in right now).

Ron

 

[Barry BB]

*********************************

So have patience, we're working it

**********************************

Ron

I know you guys are working at it. I was asking out of curiosity, not impatience.

 

[Damon W]

I am running dual 25-31CS+/Samson 1000 from a Denon 3802 with no problems at all. I haven't got everything configured exactly the way I want it yet, but if I remember correctly, my Sub channel is at (-7)db on the receiver.

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

This issue has come up before-- actually often, when mixing proamps and home receivers. Usually the receiver have enough juice- but sometimes they don't.
Check the archives- there are a few topics that talk about this idea.
The question is: Are you able to calibrate to proper levels with tone? IF you are, and then you're not happy with bass levels- that's another issue.
But if you can't get enough juice from your Reciver to get ref level tones- then there is a problem with the ouput of the receiver/input of the amp stage.

the volume on the amp is turned up halfway.

Amp volume should be all the way up. This is not a volume knob- it is an input gain. If you lower it, you raise the amount of voltage needed to get the amp going.
I don't trust an amplifier's input pad, and don't use it unless I absolutely have to! So, I would use the amp with the input knobs turned WIDE OPEN, and let your preamp have control.
If you find that you cannot possibly get your Preamp sub output backed off enough to allow you to get everything even, then consider lowering the amp input knobs. But if my Preamp could dial in calibrated level with the amp's inputs WIDE OPEN, I would absolutley run it that way!
Don't run the amp at 1/2 input and then complain that you're not getting level. This is not an ouput knob, it regulates how much level you are putting INTO the amplifier!!!!!
What I find funny is that some of you have calibrated with the same tones, and the same target levels- and them complain the new subs aren't louder. They shouldn't be louder.
-Vince

 

[Jeff White]

Ok.. I must be missing something.. I am waiting on my new receiver to be delivered so I can finally hook up my new 16-46cs+'s and my S1000... I have a Pioneer 49TX coming - What I would call a top of the line receiver, and its specifications for output are : 382mV and 2.2K ohms...

So it seems really low to me... What am I missing here? Would it not have the same problem?

 

[Barry BB]

I have to admit that I'm starting to get confused also. If both Samson s700 and s1000 have the same input impedance ratings then why has this not come up before?

Can someone explain this impedance mismatch issue using specific examples of a receiver with the right specs that the Samson needs and then with a specific example of a receiver with the wrong specs?

 

[Mifr44]

Vince,

"Amp volume should be all the way up. This is not a volume knob- it is an input gain. If you lower it, you raise the amount of voltage needed to get the amp going."

"I don't trust an amplifier's input pad, and don't use it unless I absolutely have to! So, I would use the amp with the input knobs turned WIDE OPEN, and let your preamp have control."

Sorry to sidetrack the conversation a bit, but are your comments above with regards to proamps or all amps in general? I am using Marantz MA-700s in our system and do not have them wide open. I read a review of the MA-700s after they were released, and the reviewer suggested a setting that was less than wide open for optimal sound. Was this reviewer just blowing smoke?

Thanks. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Michael

 

[JoelO]

To those using the Samson amp...

The RCA-1/4" connector that SVS provided w/ the sub, does it go in lock tight to the Samson? What I mean by lock tight is that you can't pull it out unless you push on that little "Push" knob directly above it? If that's the case, that might be my problem, coz I can pull mine out pretty easily w/o having to push that knob. But I really did push the connector as hard as I could, and it just won't go any deeper...

If indeed you can pull it out easily, then what's that "Push" knob for???

Hopefully that's the case w/ mine.. can anyone confirm?

Joel

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

Quote:

Depends on the design of the amp- and some "consumer" home theater amps are designed differently. The question is what the control can/is doing.
In professional products (or the majority) the knobs on the front control input gain. These knobs cannot really "boost" the signal, rather at maximum level- the input sensitivity will be at the max spec as shown in the manual.
On most pro products, basically, these knobs can only "cut" signal. Wide open doesn't boost, rather lets the signal pass from the preamp stage to the amp without being changed: full level is going in.
On some amplifiers, especially cheap ones, when you turn down the knobs it uses a filter which reduces gain coming into the amp. Some of these filters color the sound, alter it in ways beyond just overal gain.
In most cases, you are able to completely regulate the level of your sub with the Preamp device (your receiver) and so you should- and leave the level on the amp full open to allow signal flow without change, or risk of coloration from the filter.
These pro-type amps are designed specifically to have volume regulated at a preamp stage. YOu are supposed to set the input gain, and leave it. In the pro use, the volume would be regulated by a console, passed to processing (EQ, Crossover), and then onto the amps. Majority run their amps full open.
This may vary on home products however- as some may be built to actually have their own PREAMP stage- which would allow you to actually BOOST the incoming signal when teh knob is at full. By doing so you run the risk of damaging the gear.
It all depends on how it is made. I would personally try it full open, recalibrate, and see if you can tell a difference. Many people have reported an improvement.
-V

 

[Mifr44]

Vince,
"In professional products (or the majority) the knobs on the front control input gain. These knobs cannot really "boost" the signal, rather at maximum level- the input sensitivity will be at the max spec as shown in the manual."
"This may vary on home products however- as some may be built to actually have their own PREAMP stage-which would allow you to actually BOOST the incoming signal."
In the case of the MA-700s, the knob controls the input level, so I think the first quote describes them. As such, it sounds like it would be best to set them to the maximum level.
Thanks for the information!
Michael

 

[Barry BB]

Vince

This issue really has mushroomed, hasn't it.

TV posted to the HT Spot thread that the s700 and s1000 ratings are the same.

Your post breaking down the issues helps me alot, thanks.

 

[jeff lam]

Joel,

I believe the "PUSH" button is to unlock the XLR conectors as XLR's can lock into the socket. I have not seen 1/4" locking connectors before. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[KevinHunt]

Vince, very well said on all of your points, especially the last. I think SOME of the dissappointed folks are expecting their new SVS sub to be louder when calibrated the same as they had with their first sub(s). In my review, I pointed out that my previous 46CS's and S700 combo sounds identical to my new 46CS+'s and S1000 combo, with the exception that they can definitely be pushed harder and farther, at which point they provide more output and also extend a tad lower. Those are all good and valid points that I think Ron and Tom will appreciate while they are hard at work.

 

[DennisZ]

This is a very interesting thread. There is a push knob above the connector. It is there so you can release the connector to take out.
I have the dual 20-39CS+s with the Samson S1000 amp and mine goes in tight all the way. It doesn't come out easily.
WOW, now that statement could be taken alot of different ways!!!!!
My input signal comes from an Anthem AVM2 set at -5db
the amp set to full gain. With this no problem rocking
the house.
I may have to agree that this issue maybe the input signal
strength coming from your receiver. Wish I could add more.
Denny

 

[Nick P]

Thanks Vince, that really clears things up!
Seriously, your explanation was excellent. I think I got it now. So in theory, if one wants more volume from the CS+s, one could calibrate even higher over the mains because of more clean headroom. Right?

 

[Steve Stogel]

Speaking for Vince on your question, Nick...yes.

Steve